Stoke City v. Liverpool 10/01/09

[Brownie]

I think there was very little wrong with Rafas tactics yesterday, it was more a combination of a lot of players not performing to their standard and subs being used a little to late to make a difference. People seem to think that kuyt on his own up front was the problem, but what difference would it have made having two strikers up there anyway when all of the midfield players were having such a stinker that they were unable to get the ball into the box more than twice in the whole game.

 

The thing that worries me most about this performance is that it came when we have been on such a good run of performances. How can the level go from great to shit in space of a week. Any time we seem to start to gain some momentum a game like this comes along and fucks it all up, and its back to square one.

 

A win against Everton now is an absolute must, as a defeat could seriously derail our season as far as the league title goes. Everton will be just as stubborn as Stoke were, and they are far better at set pieces so this is going to be one serious battle.

 

I can't agree about the tactics issue mate. Our tactics yesterday were... well I don't really know what they were. We didn't try to get in behind them much, we didn't get the ball into Gerrard much and we didn't look to have the full backs bombing past the midfielders.

 

Our game-plan, to me anyway, seemed to be to give the ball to Lucas and Mascherano in acres of space for them to look around, not see a pass and give it back to the centre halves who would then play a long ball to Kuyt.

 

Setanta showed a few examples of when we did get the ball into the box and there was only one Liverpool player in their on each example, against 6 Stoke defenders. Surely the coaching staff should be able to spot things like that and make changes, isn't that what they're paid to do?

 

We could have left the two centre halves and Mascherano in our own half and given the other players licence to get into the box. There was just no clear plan. After Riera's excellent cross early on it would have been nice to see the staff giving the team instructions to feed the ball to Riera and flood the box with bodies because of it - that would have shown a pro-active reaction to what was going on during the game.

 

If Riera whipped a similar ball into the box and we had Kuyt, Gerrard, Benayoun and Lucas all in the box then that would have increased our chances of scoring a goal. Or is it a case that Rafa would then be worried about the second ball taking 4/5 of our players out of the game on the counter? I genuinely don't know if that's a reason but my assumption, based on what i've seen during six 0-0 draws this season, is that it is an issue.

[Code]

I'm not expecting him to play like Molby. I'm expecting him to give the ball to a player on his team. Sissoko couldn't do it, so we shipped him out.

 

It's not an unusual requirement of a player - even a defensive one.

 

According to the Telegraph stats Mascherano had a 88% passing accuracy.

 

The problem though is who he makes his passes to and in what positions he sets them up, not his accuracy.

 

If we take a closer look we find this.

Mascherano passes:

Carra: 8 too / 9 from

Lucas: 10 too / 9 from

Aurelio: 9 too / 15 from

Skrtel: 6 too / 7 from

Hyypia: 2 too / 5 from

 

Gerrard: 8 too / 4 from

Rieira: 1 too / 2 from

Benayoun: 4 too / 0 from

Kuyt: 6 too / 3 from

 

In the Telegraph stats you can also find his involvement in different zones, according to the stats Mascherano was involved 69 times during the match, only 9 times was he involved in the last third and this against a Stoke team who crowded their own box.

 

Playerinfo |Telegraph

[Guest Han_shoots_1st!]

The one shiny lining from a cloud of a match was the return of Skrtel...

[Kevin D]

opinions eh, I thought he was poor. if he found a liverpool player all night I must have missed.

 

I don't usually subscribe to the "Skrtel is the greatest defender ever because he looks like he's hard" club but I did think yesterday was one of his best performances for us. They threw everything into our box and when Sami didn't deal with it - rare- Skrtel did very effectively. When you factor in that people - like myself- have questioned his aerial ability, I thought he dealt with their alehouse tactics very well.

 

Also I was delighted to note that after initally going straight through one of their players , he didn't get dragged into the kind of game Kitson wanted. I take your point about his passing though , it was certainly off.

 

 

Correct. Filth tend to win these games because they never worry about the oppos like we do. We give them far too much 'respect' imo. If you want to win a title, you have at times to take a risk. OK it may not be a good idea to do so against the stronger side but stoke?

 

Yestreday, the game was crying out for our best 11 to be on the field from the start then if \ when the game is won, make the subs. If the strongest team doesnt win the game, the weaker one certainly wont either.

 

Looking at the table, filth can now overtake us if they win all their games in hand. That is a serious blow to us

 

.

 

Thats the real sickner for me. We've allowed them a chance that should be at least 10 points out of their reach.

[rebel23]

Skrtel, Hyypia, Carra are excellent defenders and in some cases legends but im afraid not good enough with the ball. too much backwards and sideways passing round the back and losing the ball when coming forwards, it makes those who don't think we need Agger look a bit foolish

[Code]

According to the Telegraph stats Mascherano had a 88% passing accuracy.

 

The problem though is who he makes his passes to and in what positions he sets them up, not his accuracy.

 

If we take a closer look we find this.

Mascherano passes:

Carra: 8 too / 9 from

Lucas: 10 too / 9 from

Aurelio: 9 too / 15 from

Skrtel: 6 too / 7 from

Hyypia: 2 too / 5 from

 

Gerrard: 8 too / 4 from

Rieira: 1 too / 2 from

Benayoun: 4 too / 0 from

Kuyt: 6 too / 3 from

 

In the Telegraph stats you can also find his involvement in different zones, according to the stats Mascherano was involved 69 times during the match, only 9 times was he involved in the last third and this against a Stoke team who crowded their own box.

 

Playerinfo |Telegraph

 

Just had a look at Lucas involvement by zones and he was involved 83 times during the game, but only 4 times in the last third.

 

Thats pretty poor from someone who is supposed to be a box to box midfielder.

[Brownie]

I know we like to rip Code when it comes to the stats, which he brings on himself in all fairness but some of those are quite interesting to be fair. Four times in the final third from Lucas? Mascherano was involved more in the final third and that just doesn't make sense to me.

 

It just strengthens the argument that we're not brave enough.

[PaulMcC]

The players let the fans, manager and themselves down yesterday.

 

There wasn't enough urgency.

[philyhamann]

The players let the manager down yesterday.

 

Do the players pick the team and tactics now?

[WaltonRed]

As soon as i knew the team I felt deflated and I think by the players performances so did they.

[PaulMcC]

Do the players pick the team and tactics now?

 

They go out and play.

 

If they constantly lose the ball it's their fault.

[ToxtethTerror]

Skrtel, Hyypia, Carra are excellent defenders and in some cases legends but im afraid not good enough with the ball. too much backwards and sideways passing round the back and losing the ball when coming forwards, it makes those who don't think we need Agger look a bit foolish

 

That's not their job really. Bould, Adams, Winterburn and Keown didn't stop Wenger's team playing well did they? Our defenders are there to defend, it's in midfield and attack where we struggle for a cutting edge.

[JMARKH]

Rafa was rightly scared, it was stoke after all.

Edited January 11, 2009 by JMARKH

[Skidfingers McGonical]

2 points dropped.

 

We missed Xabi.

 

The whole team stank and did not stand up to the plate after the the rally cry by Rafa on Friday.

 

Next game, lets bring it on. Stoke have been and gone for at least anther 20 years.

[WaltonRed]

The whole team stank and did not stand up to the plate after the the rally cry by Rafa on Friday.QUOTE]

 

I think he did that himself with the team

[JMARKH]

If I ever seen kuyt upfront on his own again i'll stake Rafa out!

[Faustus]

Very frustrating yesterday.

 

I think though at times, you have to give the opposition credit. Stoke made things very difficult yesterday. They were very organised as a defensive unit and even managed to cause us a few problems in the final third with the set-pieces and throws. I know they play shit football, but I'd be delighted with the team's display if I was a Stoke fan.

 

Saying that though, we were extremely poor in the final third. The thing with Stoke is that the force teams to go out wide by condensing things in the middle and even then, it's hard to get decent crosses into the strikers because all of the back four are 6'5'' fucking monsters. From our perspective, to have one man in the box against four Stoke defenders when we were looking to cross the ball in is piss poor.

 

If we don't win the League this season, it'll probably be because we don't score enough goals as a team. I looked at the team yesterday and I didn't know where a goal was going to come from. Obviously Gerrard was the one I fancied most to score but I couldn't see either of the wingers chipping in (especially as Benayoun continues to fucking frustrate me by taking two or three touches in the penalty area when they're clearly not on instead of just twatting it first team or after a touch) and Kuyt can go games without even having a chance at goal let alone actually scoring. We were far too cautious yesterday and the substitutions reflected this. Torres was always going to come on around the 60 minute mark but only giving Babel (who is capable of making things happen) 10 minutes was mystifying and leaving Keane on the bench when when you need a goal and you've still got an extra sub just reeked of stubborness.

 

Obviously I'm disappointed with the result, but there's still a hell of a long way to go and even though the Mancs have games in hand, I'd rather be in our position as we actually have the points on the board. Hopefully with Torres coming back into the team we can hit a bit of form and go on a good run. Taken in isolation, a point away to Stoke is not the worst result in the world seeing as they've only been beaten three times at home and are en extremely difficult team to play against, but we can't have too many more of these and we just have to make sure we can string a few wins together now to really put pressure on those below us.

[PaulMcC]

My mate who supports Stoke said he thought we looked tired.

 

I thought we just played shit.

[stringvest]

Fucking hell, this is what i'm talking about in that Heskey thread. You just don't give a fuck!

 

Jesus Brownie, don't you realise how important it is that Thants has to tell us he has some sort of life on the FF! He even has dates! With girls who are 'interesting' and do stuff! Leave the lad alone. He's an excited little puppuy and has to tell everyone.

 

Stringy x

[stringvest]

Kuyt seems to play every game, and is only rested for the kind of games he should be playing in.

 

He should not be playing in any game for Liverpool.

[Croque Monsieur]

He should not be playing in any game for Liverpool.

 

Certainly not up front on his own. He hasn't been too bad when played out on the right.