Liverpool v West Ham Thread

[redrosetints]

That's the thing really. We're more than capable of going on a run and its something we've done fairly regularly.

 

So while all is not quite as bleak as in Baz's desperate little corner of the universe, we need one of those runs to come along now if we want to sustain things. I must admit, I am not too confident, but its probably a really good time to be playing a team completely devoid of confidence at the weekend.

 

I dont think its a coincidence that all the bigger teams have struggled at this point. With the Prem and CL getting more competitive and the international weeks just finished, the lads are tired. They all look jaded and nowhere near as fresh as they were earlier in the season.

 

Our boys can now have a bit of a breather as we settle back down to playing once a week. The PSV game doesnt really matter so we can rest a few there. We've Blackburn next, away, which should give us more room to manoeuvre and Im sure that by the time we play Hull we'll be looking alot sharper and on the ball.

 

Meanwhile, Chelsea still have to get through their CL game, whilst the Mancs have to jet off for a FIFA mini tournament, Im bettgin Fergies not too happy about that ! It may not have been pretty lately, but its done its thing. Brownie likened us to the Germans, well that's not a bad team to play like when it comes to winning things.

[Dirk]

 

It's so glaringly obvious what is going wrong and it's scary that our manager can't, or won't, see it. We desperately need 2 strikers on the pitch when Torres doesn't play. Last night there was no-one to hold the ball up, create space or occupy West Ham's defenders.

 

 

 

Am I missing something here? We played with two strikers last night, Kuyt and Keane, with Benayoun and Riera out wide. We aren't winning, not because of the strikers but the fact that we can't create shit. It's the same problem we've had for years, we can't consistently produce decent chances. We were so narrow last night, kept going through the middle. We desperately need somebody that can run with the ball and has meaningful end product, whether that's an attacking midfielder or a winger, I doubt it matters, just somebody that can split the mass of bodies in the penalty area.

[gazelle]

My first game of the season - pretty dissapointed to say the least..

Met some decent lads in the ground though..

Im so so tired, i wont be doing an 8 hour drive for a mid week game again..

[redrosetints]

Well said but I don't think we've got what it takes to finish in top two. Unlike Mancs and Chavs (and usually Arse), we just cant be relied on to win the majority of our games. This is down to niave and bewildering tactics on Rafas part as much as anything else. To finish third will be seen as a huge failure due to the start we've had but its about our true position.

 

I thought the mantra was 'we just want a title challenge' ? Goalposts clearly moved !

 

When Rafa ditched the rotation we found some cohesion we'd been missing, but of course, no rotation also has a knock on effect. Fringe players not getting much playing time, the starting 11 getting tired and jaded, which is compounded by the previously mentioned fringe players not being able to drop in. Some of our key players will have played over 20 games already, not including the travelling, the mental pressure of challenging or the fact many didnt get a summer off.

 

Finally, and this I really dont get, how come you are so much more vocal THIS season when we are in fact putting up a challenge, when last season we didnt and you were a lot quieter ? Why did people boo yesterday, when we've just gone top, yet they didn't boo when we were 3rd or 4th and a long way off ?

[05 Milan]

I'm not at all twisting your words mate. I'm saying the same thing as you are .

 

That little whistling smiley was put there for a reason!

[Ian Sea]

Am I missing something here? We played with two strikers last night, Kuyt and Keane, with Benayoun and Riera out wide. We aren't winning, not because of the strikers but the fact that we can't create shit. It's the same problem we've had for years, we can't consistently produce decent chances. We were so narrow last night, kept going through the middle. We desperately need somebody that can run with the ball and has meaningful end product, whether that's an attacking midfielder or a winger, I doubt it matters, just somebody that can split the mass of bodies in the penalty area.

 

We didn't play with 2 strikers last night, we played 4-2-3-1 with Riera, Kuyt and Benayoun behind Keane. I thought that was our problem, we desperately needed more support for Keane. It was so easy to defend against it was untrue.

 

I agree about us not creating chances though, and I think playing 2 strikers would help resolve that. Last night we had no one up front holding the ball up, pulling defenders out of position or laying the ball off for the midfield.

[Spy Bee]

We didn't play with 2 strikers last night, we played 4-2-3-1 with Riera, Kuyt and Benayoun behind Keane.

Thought it was 4-4-2 myself.

[Carra_is_legend]

When Rafa ditched the rotation we found some cohesion we'd been missing, but of course, no rotation also has a knock on effect. Fringe players not getting much playing time, the starting 11 getting tired and jaded, which is compounded by the previously mentioned fringe players not being able to drop in. Some of our key players will have played over 20 games already, not including the travelling, the mental pressure of challenging or the fact many didnt get a summer off.

 

The Marseille game was last wednesday. Then we played yesterday - after nearly full 5 days.

 

Alonso only played a few mins against Fulham. Gerrard was injured for couple of weeks. Keane, Babel and Hyypia didn't play against Marseille. Benayoun only played 30 mins against Marseille. Dossena only played 1 half against Marseille. Riera was substituted after 60 mins against Marseille.

 

Going by your argument, atleast 7 players should have been relatively fresher yesterday.

[redrosetints]

Am I missing something here? We played with two strikers last night, Kuyt and Keane, with Benayoun and Riera out wide. We aren't winning, not because of the strikers but the fact that we can't create shit. It's the same problem we've had for years, we can't consistently produce decent chances. We were so narrow last night, kept going through the middle. We desperately need somebody that can run with the ball and has meaningful end product, whether that's an attacking midfielder or a winger, I doubt it matters, just somebody that can split the mass of bodies in the penalty area.

 

Agree with all that Dirkie boy. We played an attacking 4-4-2, 2 strikers, 2 wide men, two attacking midfielders but just didnt have the guile to break them down.

[stringvest]

There was one very telling piece of play last night where Keane was obviously so pissed off with the lack of service up front that he came very deep to set up the play then moved forward into his usual position. Needless to say, he didn't see the ball again.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

There's no hiding from the fact that we are a two man team (match winners).

 

Stevie hasn't been playing well of late and is struggling. Nando has serious post Euro blues.

 

Babel is the only other player impact player we have and he never plays.

 

Add to that the Robbie Keane factor.

 

No wonder we are stuggling.

[Ian Sea]

If Kuyt was supposed to be playing as a striker then he dropped way too deep. He was consistantly miles from Keane, and always far behind him. Rafa should have told him to push on if that was the case as he turned a 4-4-2 into 4-2-3-1. Kuyt never once pushed onto their centre backs or tried to get round the back of them. Neither did Keane mind, but at least his starting position was advanced.

[Carra_is_legend]

If Kuyt was supposed to be playing as a striker then he dropped way too deep. He was consistantly miles from Keane, and always far behind him. Rafa should have told him to push on if that was the case as he turned a 4-4-2 into 4-2-3-1. Kuyt never once pushed onto their centre backs or tried to get round the back of them. Neither did Keane mind, but at least his starting position was advanced.

 

Agree with that. I wasn't really sure what Kuyt's position was last night.

[JohanH]

Thought we were set up ok yesterday and unlucky not to win comfortably with chances falling to Hyypia, Kuyt, Gerrard and Babel. Once we did not have the little extra we went stale and have to question substitutions.

 

Obvious substitution to me was Benayoun off for Babel with Kuyt coming out wide. Would give us something different up front as well as provide some space for Arbeloa to run into out wide. Would have kept Keane on for 90min as he does have the ability to unlock compact defensees and seems to need Benitez to show him some love.

 

We need to play better, but we are top of the league in early December, which I for one would have taken at the start of the season.

[dave u]

Rafa is fucked if plan A doesn't work because he doesn't have the backup on the bench. Having said that, plan A is working less than it isn't this season.

 

That's 3 games drawn that should have been bankers and a fair few games where we should have either drawn or lost but we managed to drag our arses through.

 

In a big game we have players who can fight and we can create a chance or two when the other team is prepared to attack but if a team wants to defend against us we just don't have the skill or cutting edge to break them down.

 

Keane, Kuyt, Beniyoun, Babel and now Riera who's game his fell to pieces aren't going to unlock any defense and if those three are playing it's left to gerrard to do it but right now he's hit a shit patch and isn't there to save us.

 

We're predictable and really easy to defend against. The passing in the middle of the park is slick but we create far too few chances and miss far too many of the ones we do create. The killer balls just arent there, the creativity is non-existent and the movement and runs of anyone up front when Torres doesn't play is amatuer at best.

 

In an attacking sense I think we actually only have three clever plays in the entire squad. It's just not good enough. Come May it won't be good enough.

 

I'm not really arsed about the opinions of the optimists on here because objectivity is an enigma to them.

 

Give us a big team to play and we can put up a fight. Give us a shit team to play and we can brush them aside. Give us an average team who don't want to play and we're fucked but unfortunately there's a shitload of games like that in a league season and you can't take the title without being able to deal with them.

 

Great post, I might just use that as the match report. Only thing I disagree with is that we don't brush aside shit teams, we usually drop to their level but just do enough to win.

[RedKnight]

Dire, the faces change but the results stay the same. We were awful last night and I said before the game that we'd struggle if we don't score in the first 20 minutes and so it proved. West Ham were way too comfortable and none of our attacking players looked like doing anything. Gerrard tried to make something happen but that just resulted in him shooting from about 30 yards out. The Mancs need to win their game in hand but they've effectively gained a couple of points last night, gutting.

[Guest Dog Chaser]

There's no hiding from the fact that we are a two man team (match winners).

 

Stevie hasn't been playing well of late and is struggling. Nando has serious post Euro blues.

 

Babel is the only other player impact player we have and he never plays.

 

Add to that the Robbie Keane factor.

 

No wonder we are stuggling.

 

Sky sports pundit in disguise. Its a bit unfair on Nando as he has been hampered by injuries. Gerrard on the other hand was frustrating last night because he was looking to shoot at every opportunity and his overall play is lazy. His workrate is depreciating every year. Its less common for him to make up about 10 yards on a player to tackle him than it was a few years back when it was a big part of his game. Far to often you see him swing his arms like a petulant child if the ball is not played to him. Although if the ball breaks to a player on the edge of the box you want it to be Gerrard everytime

[coop]

The worrying thing for me and no doubt Phil Brown watching in the stands will have noted it is that we are easy for the shit teams to play against.

 

Stoke, Fulham and West Ham have taken a point away at Anfield by purely packing the centre of defence and midfield and getting as many behind the ball as possible.

 

Its not pretty to watch but from the opposing teams point of view they are purely saying 'right you want the points then its up to you to break us down'.

 

Other then Hyypia's headers we created nothing last night and that is for me very worrying.

 

Our inability to stretch teams is costing us big time as whoever we have playing out wide drifts in all the time which i presume is a Rafa tactic.

 

A fine example is Yossi getting the ball then drifting out to left turns to look what options he has and they are all in the centre as Riera has gone central and only Arbeloa is out wide but he has no space as the full back is easily covering him.

 

It was a wasted opportunity last night but we are still top of the league and our destiny this season is still in our own hands. Get our form back now and we can still win the league but Rafa seriously needs to work on the players about how to create space for themselves and not congest in the centre all the time.

[The 5th Benitel]

We're top of the league but i dont fancy our chances of staying there and last night summed up the reasons why perfectly.

 

1. We have got 3 quick players in our entire squad. Torres looks like he might struggle to stay fit, he wont play Babel and i'll get to Gerard next. If you cant behind teams like West Ham then the chances are we wont beat them. How many one on ones with the keeper do we have? I can think of one in the last 4 games against bottom teams and that was from a deflection.

 

2. We've got probably the best attacking centre mid in the world and he looks like he's been told not to get into the box, probably in case the other team counter attacks. I was watching him every time we got wide and he'd stop 30 yards out from goal. Made me think about when Rafa said he doesn't like playing him in the middlle cos he leaves so many gaps. Personally, i think that's bollocks when we're playing the lesser teams. If we dont let our best players attack it's no surprise we keep gettin 0-0s.

 

3. What can N'gog be doing in training that makes Rafa think he's more likely to get us a goal than Keane and Babel? Neither of them have been playing particularily well but at least they like they're a good enuogh standard to play in our league and i cant say that about N'gog so far. He might wel come good but he's obviously not up to it yet.

 

4. How come when we had Crouch we knocked straight balls to him instead of getting wide and knocking over crosses and then,when we sell him, we buy players who can do that and constantly knock over crosses to two 5"9 forwards?

[Carra_is_legend]

4. How come when we had Crouch we knocked straight balls to him instead of getting wide and knocking over crosses and then,when we sell him, we buy players who can do that and constantly knock over crosses to two 5"9 forwards?

 

I can't recall us putting many decent crosses in yesterday. Benayoun and Riera cut inside every single time.

[coop]

Dossena whipped in a couple of superb crosses but no-one was on the end of them.

[RedKnight]

I remember Dossena putting in one really awesome cross in the second half and there was only Kuyt in the box.

[Guest Dog Chaser]

We're top of the league but i dont fancy our chances of staying there and last night summed up the reasons why perfectly.

 

1. We have got 3 quick players in our entire squad. Torres looks like he might struggle to stay fit, he wont play Babel and i'll get to Gerard next. If you cant behind teams like West Ham then the chances are we wont beat them. How many one on ones with the keeper do we have? I can think of one in the last 4 games against bottom teams and that was from a deflection.

 

2. We've got probably the best attacking centre mid in the world and he looks like he's been told not to get into the box, probably in case the other team counter attacks. I was watching him every time we got wide and he'd stop 30 yards out from goal. Made me think about when Rafa said he doesn't like playing him in the middlle cos he leaves so many gaps. Personally, i think that's bollocks when we're playing the lesser teams. If we dont let our best players attack it's no surprise we keep gettin 0-0s.

 

3. What can N'gog be doing in training that makes Rafa think he's more likely to get us a goal than Keane and Babel? Neither of them have been playing particularily well but at least they like they're a good enuogh standard to play in our league and i cant say that about N'gog so far. He might wel come good but he's obviously not up to it yet.

 

4. How come when we had Crouch we knocked straight balls to him instead of getting wide and knocking over crosses and then,when we sell him, we buy players who can do that and constantly knock over crosses to two 5"9 forwards?

 

I was saying that to me mates last night, he must be like Torres during a training session.

[The 5th Benitel]

I can't recall us putting many decent crosses in yesterday. Benayoun and Riera cut inside every single time.

 

Even aside from Dossena's crosses we had the ball out wide loads and it didn't get crossed cos there was no one to aim for. Not to mention all the corners where it was Sami or no one.

[Spy Bee]

Kuyt got a few cracking crosses in too, but he was too slow to get on the end of them.