Darwin Nunez - Thoughts?

[dave u]

He'll score 30 this season.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

8 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

jesus hasn't made a habit out of missing chances? aside from about 6 weeks last season, it's been his career body of work in this country. 

 

there is an agenda amongst the "shit andy carroll" brigade of our rivals and it would seem plenty of our own fans, who decided before we signed him, they didn't want him. So there is this specific narrative that applies to Nunez and absolutely no other footballer in the 50 years I have been watching football. He is expected to never miss. It's never been an expectation of any player before. They all miss. Salah missed an easy one yesterday in the first half, in a central area, that most people would barely remember. If Nunez had missed it, all the usual suspects would be crying about it. 

 

It's frankly pathetic. 

A good post in full. A growing portion of football supporters are willing to back any narrative from lazy attention seeking pundits, based normally on nothing or best case a first impression.

 

[Barrington Womble]

13 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

A good post in full. A growing portion of football supporters are willing to back any narrative from lazy attention seeking pundits, based normally on nothing or best case a first impression.

 

Aye. Yet when 3 of the best forwards england has produced in my lifetime in linekar, shearer and wright absolutely purred about him near the end of last season and said when he settle a bit in front of goal, he could be a 40 goal a year forward or whatever it was they said, it was brushed away! because they weren't matching this "shit andy carroll" bullshit. our own fans, including a few on here gave it "but there was no plan for him", as a way to pretend their own desperation for him to fail, when obviously a world leading professional in his field like klopp doesn't sanction a signing like that without a plan. of course there was a plan and we're seeing it now, but the entire team was fucked last season, so everybody suffered, except alisson, who got to look even better and more indispensable. 

[TD_LFC]

There was so much of a plan that the plan for the rest of the team wasn't even a plan until the previous plan wasn't viable and they had to pivot to a brand new plan.

[razor]

He's done more in the few games this season than he did in the whole of last season.

 

I think people had their doubts because he lacks finesse and is a little awkward in his style.  But also, for a big lad, he isn't the battering ram type either.  He's something in between.

 

He's looked brilliant, and is obviously more confident and happy.  His friendship with Diaz is obviously part of that.

 

I am pleased for him, but I am more pleased for us.  We took a bit of a gamble and it looks like it might pay off.

 

He's turned this doubter into a believer.  It's going to be a great season.

[TheSire]

9 hours ago, TD_LFC said:

 

No, I like him as a player and he seems like a good teammate, I'm with Klopp, I just want him to be better for us.

 

What tends to happen is the majority of the games he's played here so far you get the he's a peacock, he's ace, he's chaos. Then he genuinely has a good game and all those people go see I told you he'd come good (having told us he's always been amazing) and then go back to 'he's chaos' when he's not playing well or isn't even being picked.

 

This spell is the best we've seen of him, though some of the major flaws still remain, but both the performances and the improvement needs to continue and we can't go back to him on the bench seeing every other attacker get subbed on before he get's thrown on as a Hail Mary like we were seeing last year.

 

 

Surely this is ban worthy?

[TD_LFC]

Definitely, and don't call me shir.....

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, TD_LFC said:

There was so much of a plan that the plan for the rest of the team wasn't even a plan until the previous plan wasn't viable and they had to pivot to a brand new plan.

I'd love you to tell klopp he didn't have a plan. He would laugh his head off at your stupidity. Of course he had a plan, you just couldn't see it. 

[TD_LFC]

12 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I'd love you to tell klopp he didn't have a plan. He would laugh his head off at your stupidity. Of course he had a plan, you just couldn't see it. 

 

I'm half joking, I think he had a plan, ripped it up after Nunez arrived, tried something else, ripped that up as well signed a false 9, then just mothballed Nunez until this summer.

 

People have discussed all summer how this  team wasn't even the plan half way through last season so how anyone could say that this was the plan for Nunez from the summer before is a stretch, it's become a necessity, it wasn't THE plan.

 

 

 

[Mathewbet1]

The plan evolved once darwin arrived. 

[3 Stacks]

What Klopp tried to do initially was to play Salah off Nunez in a sense. As a right winger still, but as more of a second attacker. It was awful last season, but that we are seeing it now manifesting in an effective way is the encouraging thing. 

 

Given that, it will be interesting to see what happens when Salah likely leaves next summer. The profile of the replacement and what else we do.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

I thought he was a 65 mil striker

He was.  But if you want to pretend that he's not living up to his price-tag, you have to downplay his performances and exaggerate the cost.

[razor]

2 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

What Klopp tried to do initially was to play Salah off Nunez in a sense. As a right winger still, but as more of a second attacker. It was awful last season, but that we are seeing it now manifesting in an effective way is the encouraging thing. 

 

Given that, it will be interesting to see what happens when Salah likely leaves next summer. The profile of the replacement and what else we do.

 

It also helps that the space vacated by Salah can be occupied by Szoboszlai rather than by Henderson.  What a massive upgrade Dom is.

[dave u]

16 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

He seems to miss those types of chances quite a bit, thus why they are analysed more (and not because of some made up idea he’s suffering over-analysis as argued by @dave u in the last pod). 

 

Feel free to show me any other striker in the league who gets the Spanish inquisition over every single missed chance. I'll be waiting a long time because there isn't one. He gets massively over-analysed, you only have to read this thread to see that.

 

He's judged differently. For now anyway. It won't always be like that because eventually it will stop when he's banging in 30 a season.

[Barrington Womble]

8 hours ago, TD_LFC said:

 

I'm half joking, I think he had a plan, ripped it up after Nunez arrived, tried something else, ripped that up as well signed a false 9, then just mothballed Nunez until this summer.

 

People have discussed all summer how this  team wasn't even the plan half way through last season so how anyone could say that this was the plan for Nunez from the summer before is a stretch, it's become a necessity, it wasn't THE plan.

 

 

 

Personally I think you miss the point. Klopp's plan was ripped up because the team was fucking shit and the midfield was an embarrassment. Klopp had to find ways to win football matches, so his season plan went out of the window to try and find a way we could make up for the fact our midfield all looked about 60. The evolution of those changes had Trent bolstering the midfield in deep areas and gakpo bolstering it further up the pitch. There was no room for Nunez in this or a Nunez plan, although he was given time on the left when we had no fit left wingers. 

 

The failure of the team as a whole last season meant any restructuring of the side to play with a real 9 was thrown out of the window and Darwin's lack of English meant he couldn't take on board enough instructions to play unfamiliar roles. 

 

This season with 4 new midfielders has changed all that and we can start to see the benefit a player like Darwin brings. All it took was time and patience. 

[El Dangerous]

Hope he continues to be good and we cash in on him in the summer for 1000 red rupees, 30000 green rupees and half a dozen durian fruits.

[aws]

It seems as if, unless Jurgen has a single clear plan which we all understand and which he sticks to in all circumstances, he doesn’t know what he’s doing. 

[dave u]

12 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

What Klopp tried to do initially was to play Salah off Nunez in a sense. As a right winger still, but as more of a second attacker.

 

At the start of last season everyone was concerned about how much Mo was coming deep and being asked to hug the touchline. He was not a second striker at all initially.

[JohnnyH]

12 hours ago, dave u said:

 

Feel free to show me any other striker in the league who gets the Spanish inquisition over every single missed chance. I'll be waiting a long time because there isn't one. He gets massively over-analysed, you only have to read this thread to see that.

 

He's judged differently. For now anyway. It won't always be like that because eventually it will stop when he's banging in 30 a season.

 

It's not "any other striker" though.  He cost £64m, rising to £85m if we win the big pots (so hopefully it does), and that context is important.  He is priced as the top level.  I can't think of a player in that price point who has missed the chances he has, not getting similar levels of inquisition.  Of course they would.  

 

But this all stems from someone saying it wasn't an easy chance.  And that's my issue.  You say people are over analysing him, I think people are going much to far the other way to make excuses for him.  That was a straightforward chance that he didn't even get on target.  However, he then went and scored an absolute beauty, and that's great when he gets to make up for the missed chance and we win the game.  But the misses need to be reduced, especially for those big tight games where we may only get 1 chance.

 

But I'll say again that I think he's great and can and will get better and can be getting great numbers for us.

[El Dangerous]

1 hour ago, dave u said:

 

At the start of last season everyone was concerned about how much Mo was coming deep and being asked to hug the touchline. He was not a second striker at all initially.

If anything I thought Nunez looked a lot better when Mo came inside a bit closer to him. Playing our inverted goal scoring winger in a more traditional winger position was a shit idea.

[etho]

12 minutes ago, JohnnyH said:

 

It's not "any other striker" though.  He cost £64m, rising to £85m if we win the big pots (so hopefully it does), and that context is important.  He is priced as the top level.  I can't think of a player in that price point who has missed the chances he has, not getting similar levels of inquisition.  Of course they would.  

 

But this all stems from someone saying it wasn't an easy chance.  And that's my issue.  You say people are over analysing him, I think people are going much to far the other way to make excuses for him.  That was a straightforward chance that he didn't even get on target.  However, he then went and scored an absolute beauty, and that's great when he gets to make up for the missed chance and we win the game.  But the misses need to be reduced, especially for those big tight games where we may only get 1 chance.

 

But I'll say again that I think he's great and can and will get better and can be getting great numbers for us.

 

I do agree that if he's playing say Bayern Munich in the cl final, there are some chances you'd expect him to put away, but I think that's coming. He came on in a pressure situation v Newcastle and dead eye converted the 2 chances his pace and power and movement put him in the position to take. All strikers miss chances, haalands shot conversion this season is apparently 29 percent. Osimhem is valued at 150m and misses chances.

The 64m rising to 85 m isn't that much for a goalscoring forward. There aren't many in world football. We were buying the raw potential even at that price. The finished article at 23 years old would have cost 200m (and I don't think that player is even out there)

I fucking love him 

[3 Stacks]

2 hours ago, dave u said:

 

At the start of last season everyone was concerned about how much Mo was coming deep and being asked to hug the touchline. He was not a second striker at all initially.

It was the same sort of idea; he was going to be playing deeper in a support role to Nunez. In that case, as more of a winger. 

[TheHowieLama]

34 minutes ago, JohnnyH said:

 

It's not "any other striker" though.  He cost £64m,

 

So did Hojlund - he has one gola. He may only have had a couple of shots on goal tbh.

[Jurgen Knows]

2 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

 

But this all stems from someone saying it wasn't an easy chance.  And that's my issue.  You say people are over analysing him, I think people are going much to far the other way to make excuses for him.  That was a straightforward chance that he didn't even get on target.  However, he then went and scored an absolute beauty, and that's great when he gets to make up for the missed chance and we win the game.  

That’s support. He needs it. He thrives on it.

[Chris]

14 hours ago, dave u said:

 

Feel free to show me any other striker in the league who gets the Spanish inquisition over every single missed chance. I'll be waiting a long time because there isn't one. He gets massively over-analysed, you only have to read this thread to see that.

 

He's judged differently. For now anyway. It won't always be like that because eventually it will stop when he's banging in 30 a season.

 

I think it's as much the volume of chances he's missed than the chances themselves. We talked about Gakpo after the LASK game and whether he'd get the same inquisution. I thought about that because it's a good question. But I think it's a volume issue. When you're squandering 3-4 of these chances per game rather than one then it's going to bring more scrutiny.

 

I'm careful about what I say now, rather than just being a counterpoint to you, because I actually really like him and would rather him be on the field than not. And the fact he's getting on the end of so much can only be a positive.