This chant that we are getting grief for

[Poor Scouser T]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Try the Equalities Act 2010.

 

It makes sense.

I get it and  not arguing for a free for all but I believe I have right to offend you if I want. You might sue me or break my nose. Dare say I asked for it but criminal! Nah.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

I've been in workplace meetings at quite senior levels were fellow attendees have been reminded to check their wallets at the end of the meeting after introducing the scouser. Check your hub caps etc, We've all had them and it fucks me off but we all shrug it off

It's shit, but it's not prohibited by law. Ironically, if anyone did propose a law to protect Scousers, fatties, slapheads or whatever from insults and "epic bantz" then the "Where do we stop?" argument would make sense. Instead, we have a law to protect people from abuse and discrimination on the grounds of Protected Characteristics and I think the legal balance is about right.

[Poor Scouser T]

Just now, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's shit, but it's not prohibited by law. Ironically, if anyone did propose a law to protect Scousers, fatties, slapheads or whatever from insults and "epic bantz" then the "Where do we stop?" argument would make sense. Instead, we have a law to protect people from abuse and discrimination on the grounds of Protected Characteristics and I think the legal balance is about right.

So can I call a women a hore but not a man a rent boy? Can I mock a Pakistani or Chinese accent.? How about an Israeli a German or a Mexican? Fucked if I know

[3 Stacks]

23 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Different words mean different things in different languages.

 

In English, calling someone a "rent boy" as an insult has homophobic connotations. Most of us were thoughtlessly unaware of that, but now we know it's obviously right that we stop it.

 

In Spanish, addressing someone as negro is no more insulting or racist than addressing them as rubio or flaco or any other adjective used in that way.

Yeah, Evra, the black frenchman playing in England, should have just brushed up on his Spanish instead of getting offended. It was all his fault.

[SasaS]

15 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Different words mean different things in different languages.

 

In English, calling someone a "rent boy" as an insult has homophobic connotations. Most of us were thoughtlessly unaware of that, but now we know it's obviously right that we stop it.

 

In Spanish, addressing someone as negro is no more insulting or racist than addressing them as rubio or flaco or any other adjective used in that way.

 

Not to go on ad nauseam, I don't disagree, however, where I think we will always see things differently is the "connotations" "unaware" and "now we obviously know it" parts. This is why I think everybody is allowed to discuss, gay or straight, black or white etc. what is offending and what isn't.

When things go down from prosecutor's office, supporters are being encouraged to report others for shouting this or that and announcements are constantly issuing threats and warnings aimed at adjusting your behaviour, things do tend to get a bit dystopian (to use the example from the game from the last podcast).  

[Poor Scouser T]

Maybe there should be a legal defense of 'offence'. If I call a little person a midget cunt and he breaks my kneecaps with a hammer and is charged with assault. The court can decide if he was sufficiently offended to justify the response. Nightmare but case by case rather than criminalizing 20,000 for taking the piss out of Chelsea. Because lets be honest that is what it is. Taking the piss. Not discriminating against homosexuals.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

29 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

So can I call a women a hore but not a man a rent boy? Can I mock a Pakistani or Chinese accent.? How about an Israeli a German or a Mexican? Fucked if I know

How about "no" on all counts?

 

One-off incidents are best judged according to context, but they're usually a bit shit. If you're repeatedly indulging in "banter" that creates an atmosphere where a person feels uncomfortable or excluded because of their gender, sexuality, ethnicity/nationality, etc. then 

a). you're a cunt and

b). you're probably in breach of the Equality Act 

 

There's no great mystery. There's plenty of advice and guidance available about the Equality Act. If you can't be bothered with that, just live by the maxim "Don't be a cunt" and you won't go wrong.

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

33 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Yeah, Evra, the black frenchman playing in England, should have just brushed up on his Spanish instead of getting offended. It was all his fault.

Jesus. Read the fucking report and get some facts instead of making a twat of yourself.

 

Nobody blames him for misunderstanding the word; why would they?

[Poor Scouser T]

Yeah good points and I don't know the equalities act. As neither do 90% of the population as I guess. I do know the don't be a cunt act and it is pretty reliable. The people who need a good smack usually know the cunt act and that is why they do it.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

33 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

Not to go on ad nauseam, I don't disagree, however, where I think we will always see things differently is the "connotations" "unaware" and "now we obviously know it" parts. This is why I think everybody is allowed to discuss, gay or straight, black or white etc. what is offending and what isn't.

When things go down from prosecutor's office, supporters are being encouraged to report others for shouting this or that and announcements are constantly issuing threats and warnings aimed at adjusting your behaviour, things do tend to get a bit dystopian (to use the example from the game from the last podcast).  

 

 

Everybody is allowed to discuss it.  There was extensive discussion about it over the last 18 months and the conclusion is that it's unquestionably homophobic. There's nothing "dystopian" about wanting to live in a society where people can be themselves at a football match and enjoy the game without being subjected to abuse from their fellow fans. We no longer tolerate racist chanting and this belongs in the same bin.

[SasaS]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Everybody is allowed to discuss it.  There was extensive discussion about it over the last 18 months and the conclusion is that it's unquestionably homophobic. There's nothing "dystopian" about wanting to live in a society where people can be themselves at a football match and enjoy the game without being subjected to abuse from their fellow fans. We no longer tolerate racist chanting and this belongs in the same bin.

 

Actually, having your behaviour constantly monitored and modified by asking other fans to report on you if you don't comply sounds very dystopian. In fact, it is a situation straight from a dystopian novel. Even your there-is-nothing-dystopian explanation would probably be given by totalitarian authorities in a dystopia.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

18 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

Actually, having your behaviour constantly monitored and modified by asking other fans to report on you if you don't comply sounds very dystopian. In fact, it is a situation straight from a dystopian novel. Even your there-is-nothing-dystopian explanation would probably be given by totalitarian authorities in a dystopia.

Hmm... 

 

You and I have different definitions of the word "dystopian".  My definition excludes a situation in which people challenge harmful behaviour.

[SasaS]

3 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Hmm... 

 

You and I have different definitions of the word "dystopian".  My definition excludes a situation in which people challenge harmful behaviour.

 

Well, obviously, one mans's dystopia is another man's utopia.

[Mook]

4 hours ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Yeah good points and I don't know the equalities act. As neither do 90% of the population as I guess. I do know the don't be a cunt act and it is pretty reliable. The people who need a good smack usually know the cunt act and that is why they do it.

 

I think being a cunt is part of supporting a Football team, most of us have probably sang things like Manchester is full of shit, Posh Spice takes it up the arse and We hate Jimmy Hill, he's a poof because things like that have been part of the game for decades. I'm not saying they're right or wrong here.

 

Progress is great & people being nicer to each other is great but we've lost a lot of the bite that was part and parcel of terrace culture & social media has ensured the progress is moving faster than ever. A song every cunt was singing a couple of years ago will now get you lifted and banned from watching your team for life. Fellow supporters will happily be the ones to put you away for it too.

 

I'm making a general point here, not about this specific chant. Art, Football & many other things we enjoy are much more closely analysed & although the word 'dystopian' is a bit melodramatic, I think we're on a slippery slope in some ways.

 

The World isn't a very nice place in my opinion, we can pretend we're not cunts & have the FA or the CPS tell us to stop being cunts but an awful lot of is are just massive cunts and that's not going to change.

[Bjornebye]

7 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

They banned him for 8 games because they're incompetent shitwits with more interest in being seen to do something than in getting stuff right.

 

The handshake thing was what you can see on the video: Evra lowered his hand when Suarez approached to shake it, but then kicked off when Suarez moved along.  Nobody knows why Evra did that, but my guess is it's because he's a cunt.

 

 

 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

5 hours ago, Poor Scouser T said:

So can I call a women a hore but not a man a rent boy? Can I mock a Pakistani or Chinese accent.? How about an Israeli a German or a Mexican? Fucked if I know

If you did that on here, you’d probably get a neg…