Russia v Ukraine

[Red Phoenix]

5 minutes ago, stringvest said:

That's nothing, you should see what they do to Red Crescent installations 

 

I don't think any of them really care at times, mostly pointing out the hypocrisy again though.

 

An update from the Red Cross too :

 

Quote

An International Red Cross spokesperson has confirmed to the Guardian:

 

We can confirm that the image being circulated shows the ICRC warehouse in Mariupol. We do not have a team on the ground in Mariupol so we have no other information, including on potential casualties or damage. We can say that we had already distributed all aid supplies in the warehouse.

 

Russia-Ukraine war latest

[Pureblood]

GINGER SNAPS

[SasaS]

I am frequently amazed by expectations that there would be fully protected civilians in a war or that nobody would be shooting at a hospital, or from a hospital. Nobody ever deliberately bombs hospitals, churches, schools and day care centres, you either bomb randomly or you bomb everything including hospitals or there is activity from the vicinity of such places.

 

Conversely, when you defend a city, you fire from civilian objects. Schools are particularly great, often easier to defend and frequently come with reinforced shelters ideal to store your ammunitions supplies. You use every advantage there is.

[stringvest]

35 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

I don't think any of them really care at times, mostly pointing out the hypocrisy again though.

 

I don't really think anyone needs reminding that hypocrisy is rife on both sides.

[Red Phoenix]

3 minutes ago, stringvest said:

I don't really think anyone needs reminding that hypocrisy is rife on both sides.

 

The ICC one is what really got me, I think it's amazing. But yeah good point.

[Rico1304]

14 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I am frequently amazed by expectations that there would be fully protected civilians in a war or that nobody would be shooting at a hospital, or from a hospital. Nobody ever deliberately bombs hospitals, churches, schools and day care centres, you either bomb randomly or you bomb everything including hospitals or there is activity from the vicinity of such places.

 

Conversely, when you defend a city, you fire from civilian objects. Schools are particularly great, often easier to defend and frequently come with reinforced shelters ideal to store your ammunitions supplies. You use every advantage there is.

Nobody ever deliberately bombs hospitals etc? Really?  How’d you get that? 

[SasaS]

7 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Nobody ever deliberately bombs hospitals etc? Really?  How’d you get that? 

Because there is nothing to be gained from that except bad publicity (if you still have to worry about that, depending on a war). You think that a command sits around a table and instead of planning how to hit the enemy, plans how to hit hospitals, with diabolical expressions on their faces, because they are evil?

[Rico1304]

2 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Because there is nothing to be gained from that except bad publicity (if you still have to worry about that, depending on a war). You think that a command sits around a table and instead of planning how to hit the enemy, plans how to hit hospitals, with diabolical expressions on their faces, because they are evil?

I just think it’s a pretty sweeping statement and was wondering if you’ve any evidence of it. I guess not.  
 

Edit: MSF seem to disagree with you. 

[SasaS]

6 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

I just think it’s a pretty sweeping statement and was wondering if you’ve any evidence of it. I guess not.  
 

Edit: MSF seem to disagree with you. 

You mean have I investigated every hit on a hospital in terms was it deliberate or just careless or simply accidental? No, I have not.

I have common sense and a basic knowledge of how wartime propaganda works. You always try to portray your enemy as morally abhorrent. If you have both sides with similar capabilities, you will often find them accusing each other of exactly the same thing. You try to dehumanize your enemy, show them to be evil.  

[Rico1304]

7 minutes ago, SasaS said:

You mean have I investigated every hit on a hospital in terms was it deliberate or just careless or simply accidental? No, I have not.

I have common sense and a basic knowledge of how wartime propaganda works. You always try to portray your enemy as morally abhorrent. If you have both sides with similar capabilities, you will often find them accusing each other of exactly the same thing. You try to dehumanize your enemy, show them to be evil.  

But that’s not what you said. You said it never happens and then made some condescending comment about evil people.  Turns out you were wrong.  That’s all really.  

[SasaS]

7 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

But that’s not what you said. You said it never happens and then made some condescending comment about evil people.  Turns out you were wrong.  That’s all really.  

 

I said nobody ever deliberately targets hospitals. When hospitals get hit, there are always accusations it was deliberate. How did it turn out I was wrong?

[Red Phoenix]

I've seen reports of Azov, etc, deliberately picking civilian buildings so that they can take advantage of the bad publicity when they're hit. I didn't bring that up though because it'd cause arguments, Russia apologist, etc. I think SasaS has a good point though.

 

It's made me think how unclear so much is in war too. Like when the US, NATO, Israel, etc, are bombing buildings to shit I'm going to be more wary about what's actually happened now instead of instinctively thinking they've done it out of badness. Both sides will use either side of the argument for their own agendas though clearly. Another example of why war is so much of a fucking nightmare in the first place.

[Rico1304]

46 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

I said nobody ever deliberately targets hospitals. When hospitals get hit, there are always accusations it was deliberate. How did it turn out I was wrong?

You are still standing by the fact no one ever deliberately targets hospitals.  That cannot be asserted because you can’t know.

 

If Putin said ‘raise the city to the ground’ is that deliberate targeting of hospitals? 

[SasaS]

Just now, Rico1304 said:

You are still standing by the fact no one ever deliberately targets hospitals.  That cannot be asserted because you can’t know.

 

If Putin said ‘raise the city to the ground’ is that deliberate targeting of hospitals? 

 

No, as I said (implied), it would be ignoring the fact there are also hospitals in the city which is to be raised to the ground.

 

Would you be happier if I rephrased it into "I think that as a rule, in general, you don't ever deliberately target a hospital as such (per se)..." so we can get out of this?

 

 

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, SasaS said:

 

No, as I said (implied), it would be ignoring the fact there are also hospitals in the city which is to be raised to the ground.

 

Would you be happier if I rephrased it into "I think that as a rule, in general, you don't ever deliberately target a hospital as such (per se)..." so we can get out of this?

 

 

I think ‘it’s unwise to target hospitals if you care what other people think’ covers it. 

[Kepler-186]

A quick look at Roman’s roubles. Top, top stealing assets and selling them back for a grossly inflated price, Clive.

 

 

[SasaS]

54 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

I think ‘it’s unwise to target hospitals if you care what other people think’ covers it. 

No, that was the best I could offer at this stage of negotiations.

[Rico1304]

5 minutes ago, SasaS said:

No, that was the best I could offer at this stage of negotiations.

I think the main takeaway is that at least one person is reading your posts. 

[SasaS]

3 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

I think the main takeaway is that at least one person is reading your posts. 

And I think you will find the actual reach is at least double of what you estimate. RP quoted me.

 

[Captain Howdy]

14 hours ago, Red Shift said:

Experts weigh in -
 

Former CIA analyst Larry C. Johnson - “The Ukrainian Army has been defeated…”

 

https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/larry-c-johnson-the-ukrainian-army-has-been-defeated-whats-left-is-mop-up/

 

Colonel Douglas MacGregor : “The war is really over for the Ukraine. They have been ground into bits, there is no question…”

 

https://podcastaddict.com/episode/137193567

 

 

You’re struggling to contain your delight aren’t you

[Captain Howdy]

4 hours ago, stringvest said:

I don't really think anyone needs reminding that hypocrisy is rife on both sides.

Exactly, it’s the fundamentals that are the issue.

[Captain Howdy]

3 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

I've seen reports of Azov, etc, deliberately picking civilian buildings so that they can take advantage of the bad publicity when they're hit. I didn't bring that up though

You just have 

[Red Phoenix]

White House statement via Guardian :

 

Quote

The leaders discussed how the United States is working around the clock to fulfill the main security assistance requests by Ukraine, the critical effects those weapons have had on the conflict, and continued efforts by the United States with allies and partners to identify additional capabilities to help the Ukrainian military defend its country.

In addition, President Biden informed President Zelenskyy that the United States intends to provide the Ukrainian government with $500 million in direct budgetary aid. He also reviewed the additional sanctions and humanitarian assistance announced last week. President Zelenskyy updated President Biden on the status of Ukraine’s negotiations with Russia.

 

First half the main US priority : shipping in weapons. Second some cash sent to the Ukrainian gov, near the end humanitarian assistance. Finally a check on how negotiations are going. No word at all on the US officially helping in any way like has been the same through this whole thing, just checking.

[Red Phoenix]

7 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

You just have 

 

Yeah I wasn't interested in watching someone getting shit for bringing up something that I've also seen several times now and that I've also been wondering about, then not post anything to leave it looking like they're the only person that had the thought.

[Red Phoenix]

Putin's gas hike update :