Summer 2021 transfer thread.

[m0e]

9 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

And the folks (football) who get the majority of those hedges (see what I did there) are better at their jobs than the folks who do not.

 

Seeing as how we have never competed for finished articles I feel we have a record over time recently of being better than the market in that respect.

 

It's not an argument is it?

Honestly?

 

I think you're either on drugs, or have some sort of social disability.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

7 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Featured in the last few days in the "How Does your Garden Grow" thread.

John Francis Daly ok Tention.

[TheHowieLama]

5 minutes ago, m0e said:

Honestly?

 

I think you're either on drugs, or have some sort of social disability.

Oohh -- that stings lad.

 

Who was the last "finished article" we bought?

 

If you go back 20 years (or weasel out with Thiago) in this conversation I can firmly agree that you have ^^^^^

 

Ahh, no, that is silly - but it would be the former.

[3 Stacks]

26 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

I am not surprised at your last line.

 

By definition they were the top rated players available at the time.

And voila - they are now the top players. Genius. (I don't expect you to understand that either).

Yeah, it's a regular occurrence that I have no idea what you're saying.

9 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Oohh -- that stings lad.

 

Who was the last "finished article" we bought?

 

If you go back 20 years (or weasel out with Thiago) in this conversation I can firmly agree that you have ^^^^^

 

Ahh, no, that is silly - but it would be the former.

Like, I'm not involved in this convo, but what on earth are you saying here?

 

Word salad is a perfect description. It's just waffling and waffling with no semblance of a point,  random references and punctuation thrown in.

[TheHowieLama]

I understand English isn't your first language - in the last few posts the discussion has moved onto - when have we ever competed for "world class" players in the transfer market?

Specifically record transfers in their position - (which is word salad for what Moe posted as "established, universally lauded finished articles").

The last few posts have also included a reference to the difference the market is willing to pay in fees for the potential of players vs. their "established, universally lauded finished articles").  Again, that is Moe's salad.

 

[johnsusername]

£350,000 a week that Sancho is supposed to be on. Mind boggling. 

[TheHowieLama]

Just now, johnsusername said:

£350,000 a week that Sancho is supposed to be on. Mind boggling. 

[m0e]

32 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Oohh -- that stings lad.

 

Who was the last "finished article" we bought?

 

If you go back 20 years (or weasel out with Thiago) in this conversation I can firmly agree that you have ^^^^^

 

Ahh, no, that is silly - but it would be the former.

It was a petulant comment, no harm intended. 

 

As for "finished article" point, which was the phrase I was challenging by the way (in case you hadn't noticed reading back), it would depend on how you define this.

 

I define it as proven quality, consistently at the highest level. In pressure situations. In winning teams. I think Thiago is definitely in that camp, so not sure why it's a weasel out. The only other players I can think of, who weren't yet past their peak, were Anelka and Ince.

 

A better way to think about it may be "proven quality". So, players who've shown they can perform at the highest level, consistently, without necessarily winning top trophies.

 

I think Dalglish, Barnes and Beardsley fit into that quite comfortably. Molby too.

 

I can easily make a case for Suarez, Robbie Keane, Mascherano, Glen Johnson, Morientes, Cisse, Kuyt, Sturridge, Hamman, Henchoz, Litmanen, Ziege, Benayoun, Berger, and Smicer as well.

 

All played at the highest level and contributed at that level prior to joining us. All showed their ability at the highest level.

 

Same as Coman, by the way. You could argue Sancho, but I've not seen it personally.

 

Haaland is a much clearer example, simply because of his goal record at every level he's played at.

 

Alisson just about started to establish himself, unlike VVD, who never really got the opportunity at international level or CL.

 

They weren't proven quality for me.

 

Salah had made his mark in the CL as a teenager, and won the league in Switzerland. Mane had a starring role in Salzburg's double winning side. 

 

Both played high pressure football for their national teams too, which is why I'd be tempted to include them in the proven quality bracket. Same as Diouf, and to a lesser extent, Diao.

 

They are far less of a footballing risk (new country and culture aside) than say a Maddison or a Le Tissier would be.

 

In summary, we've always been in for top quality players, some proven, some not; rarely in for top quality players at their peak; and on the odd occasion, top quality players past their peak.

[m0e]

16 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

I understand English isn't your first language - in the last few posts the discussion has moved onto - when have we ever competed for "world class" players in the transfer market?

Specifically record transfers in their position - (which is word salad for what Moe posted as "established, universally lauded finished articles").

The last few posts have also included a reference to the difference the market is willing to pay in fees for the potential of players vs. their "established, universally lauded finished articles").  Again, that is Moe's salad.

 

That was me quoting the original post and saying that description should not be applied to VVD and Alisson.

 

I'm really unclear as to what your issue is, but maybe that's my problem.

[TheHowieLama]

26 minutes ago, m0e said:

That was me quoting the original post and saying that description should not be applied to VVD and Alisson.

 

I'm really unclear as to what your issue is, but maybe that's my problem.

That was for our French Canadian Ligue 1 fella who stuck his beret in.

 

Agree with alot of that - the caveat being you are looking at a group of players from 15 years ago for the most part (or 25+ years in the second group) and you left out El Nino who is probably one of the best examples in that bracket.

I was going by a different metric than the likes of that list tbh cuz I would have Milner, Fabinho, Salah, Firmino, hell even Shaqiri in that company. As said Mane and Keita both have to have been comparable to a few of those (Henchoz ffs).

 

And fuckin Harry Kewell.

 

 

 

 

[m0e]

26 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

That was for our French Canadian Ligue 1 fella who stuck his beret in.

 

Agree with alot of that - the caveat being you are looking at a group of players from 15 years ago for the most part (or 25+ years in the second group) and you left out El Nino who is probably one of the best examples in that bracket.

I was going by a different metric than the likes of that list tbh cuz I would have Milner, Fabinho, Salah, Firmino, hell even Shaqiri in that company. As said Mane and Keita both have to have been comparable to a few of those (Henchoz ffs).

 

And fuckin Harry Kewell.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I'm not sure Torres played much international or CL footy, to be fair. Much like Alonso.

 

Milner maybe. Definitely not Firmino.

 

Fabinho is probably closer to Alisson, in that he was just starting to establish himself. Perhaps, Kewell falls into that bracket as well?

 

Shaqiri is a good shout.

 

I think the issue has always been around the salary. We've never seemed wiling to pay a top wage for players, irrespective of the stage of their development.

 

Our top 2 (Thiago and Salah) get substantially less than Partey and Aubamayeng for example, and half of what Mbappe or De Ligt get.

 

Sancho at 350k per week is just never going to happen at our club.

 

Sterling got £300k at City, which we were never going to match. At least he'd established himself in a title challenging Liverpool side, and at international level though!

[Scott_M]

Would I have liked us to sign Sancho?

 

Yeah, probably.

 

Would he get into our side? Will be bag the 20 goals Salah & Mane will likely get?

 

Highly debatable.

 

We’ve a good record recently of signing better players, for lesser fees…

 

2016 - Wijnaldum £25m > Pogba £90m, Mane £35 > Mkhitaryan £38m

2017 - Salah £35m > Sanchez £30m

2018 - Fabinho £40m > Fred £53m

2019 - We didn’t sign anybody and pissed the league & they spent c.£200m on McGuire, Fernandes, Wan-Bissaka & James

2020 - Thaigo £30m > Van Der Beek £35m.

I could go on comparing players from different widows (Matip + Gomez + Phillips + Konaté = £45m > Lindelof + Bailley £65m or Robertson £9m > Shaw + Telles =  £45m), but no need, the point is made.

 

Clearly, we’re getting significantly more out of our players than they are.
 

Sancho might develop into a superstar, he might be another Sanchez or Mkhitaryan. 
 

I’m only concerned about we do. I absolutely think we need a refresh of young quality, and I trust our decision makers to get it right.

 

[Scott_M]

Would I have liked us to sign Sancho?

 

Yeah, probably.

 

Would he get into our side? Will be bag the 20 goals Salah & Mane will likely get?

 

Highly debatable.

 

We’ve a good record recently of signing better players, for lesser fees…

 

2016 - Wijnaldum £25m > Pogba £90m, Mane £35 > Mkhitaryan £38m

2017 - Salah £35m > Sanchez £30m

2018 - Fabinho £40m > Fred £53m

2019 - We didn’t sign anybody and pissed the league & they spent c.£200m on McGuire, Fernandes, Wan-Bissaka & James

2020 - Thaigo £30m > Van Der Beek £35m.

I could go on comparing players from different widows (Matip + Gomez + Phillips + Konaté = £45m > Lindelof + Bailley £65m or Robertson £9m > Shaw + Telles =  £45m), but no need, the point is made.

 

Clearly, we’re getting significantly more out of our players than they are.
 

Sancho might develop into a superstar, he might be another Sanchez or Mkhitaryan. 
 

I’m only concerned about we do. I absolutely think we need a refresh of young quality, and I trust our decision makers to get it right.

[Scott_M]

10 minutes ago, m0e said:

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I'm not sure Torres played much international or CL footy, to be fair. Much like Alonso.

Not picking holes (although I am!) but Torres was a bonafide star when we signed him from Atletico.

 

He was obviously Atletico’s main man & was Spain’s #9 at the 2006 World Cup. Granted, I think Atletico were a bit shit at the time, but I think he came to us, from a Spanish point of view anyway, as a superstar.

 

He just became so much better while he was with us.

[TheHowieLama]

The sad thing is players like Stewart Downing and Paul Konchesky fit the bill as well.

 

Ooof.

[Scott_M]

1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

The sad thing is players like Stewart Downing and Paul Konchesky fit the bill as well.

 

Ooof.

Not recently. As it since Klopp’s arrival. They’ve been through 3 managers since Klopp arrived.

 

Granted, it won’t go on forever, but I’ve faith it will for a couple more years.

[Harry Squatter]

 

 

[m0e]

29 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

Not picking holes (although I am!) but Torres was a bonafide star when we signed him from Atletico.

 

He was obviously Atletico’s main man & was Spain’s #9 at the 2006 World Cup. Granted, I think Atletico were a bit shit at the time, but I think he came to us, from a Spanish point of view anyway, as a superstar.

 

He just became so much better while he was with us.

He scored 15 goals the season before he joined us.

 

Granted, he was the main man for a (very average) Spanish side (I did forget about the 2006 world Cup, to be fair), but only became a superstar for them in 2008, once he'd made it with us.

 

I'll happily move him onto the list of proven quality, as he definitely had something about him.

[an tha]

48 minutes ago, Doctor Troy said:

 

 

Can't see how they've got the money.

 

They are absolutely haemorrhaging money.

[Harry Squatter]

4 minutes ago, an tha said:

Can't see how they've got the money.

 

They are absolutely haemorrhaging money.

Hopefully they go the same way as Leeds from 2001.

[an tha]

6 minutes ago, Doctor Troy said:

Hopefully they go the same way as Leeds from 2001.

I never used to think this as thought was bad for the city and bad for the old school decent blues.

 

But now - yeah fuck them.

[El Dangerous]

9 minutes ago, Doctor Troy said:

Hopefully they go the same way as Leeds from 2001.

That’s it! That’s why they went for Rafa, he’s the patsy!

[TheHowieLama]

15 minutes ago, El Dangerous said:

he’s the patsy!

@Colt Seavers

Oy - fall guy here.

[Red74]

8 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

How on earth is our wage bill the same as Uniteds and City's almost when they pay 300 grand plus wages to numerous players. I doubt very much their weaker players are on significantly less than ours to average it out and city have a fucking second first 11.

I reckon we declare the total Club wages, right down to carol in the Kirkby kitchen while the mancs and others put there 1st team squads out. 

[lifetime fan]

9 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

@Colt Seavers

Oy - fall guy here.

“I might fall from a tall building, 
I might roll a brand new car…”