Keir Starmer

[TheSire]

4 hours ago, Section_31 said:

 

I think we're in broad agreement generally, I don't know if Starmer believes anything, I don't find him inspiring at all, I just view him as a means to an end.

 

Starmer’s labour might be Cameron lite, I don't know until they're in power, but they're not gangsters. We're literally run by gypsies, tramps and thieves. People who profiteer off pandemics and social strife, then brag about it on their own GB News channels.

 

The difference between Labour and Tory now is the same as Democrats vs Republicans. One is centrist, the other is a collection of thieves, liars, flat earthers and abject scum.

 

What absolutely bakes my noodle though is that there's people out there claiming to be left wing who'd happily see Starmer’s labour lose. They can't claim to care about ordinary folk and hold that belief, they just can't.

 

There's lots of people out there now, people with blogs, YouTube channels and all that bollocks - bums generally - who if they weren't obsessing over all this, it'd be lower league football or steam trains. They rant and rave in their own echo Chambers. Owen Jones makes money out of Starmer the way Alex Jones rants about gun control, monetised fume to the already initiated. 

 

But 99.9% of people through don't give a fuck, they just don't want to live in a country that's falling apart around them. I'm one of those people.

I think some feel morally superior by showing how left or right they are. The terms are way too reductionist anyway and don't help the argument at all. Most probably wouldn't be able to explain what left or right are anyway.

[Anubis]

Luke Akehurst needs to be fucked off, the little twat.

[Gnasher]

53 minutes ago, TheSire said:

I think some feel morally superior by showing how left or right they are. The terms are way too reductionist anyway and don't help the argument at all. Most probably wouldn't be able to explain what left or right are anyway.

 

They don't feel superior, they feel let down. 

 

Let's just roughly say 20% of the country are Labour left wing, Corbyn, Attlee etc and 20% are Tory right wing, Thatcher, Cameron, Osborne etc. 

 

 

Let's ignore that 40% or so and concentrate on the middle 60%  the centre left, centre and center right. 

 

The old center/center right are overwhelmingly in favour of assets like the Postoffice and Water etc being back in public hands. Many go fishing, holidays in Dorset and used to hang around their local Post office all day.  Its what small c Conservatives did in the 50s/60/70s.  They didnt want their Post Office closed and they didn’t want private companies filling their waters full of shit.

 

 

Most of the electorate agree privatisation has been a failure. It was a Thatcher idea to supposedly bring down bills through competition but its failed. Even most old small c Conservatives also know its failed. 

 

Most of the old center and center right also agree with a fairer more progressive tax system. As they had in the 50s/60s/70s.

 

Most of the CL/CR agree more homes should be built and more should be done to help young people onto the housing ladder. Their own grandchildrens problems are in their face.

 

Most of the electorate (bar the far right) agree we need action on climate change. The 23 billion green energy investment would have not only insulated a lot of (poorer)  homes it would have bought with it a lot of jobs and a lot of jobs. Not to mention the health benefits and environmental aspects. 

 

 

 

Most in the CL/CR agree, our public services need investment.

 

 

 

In short, these are not the crazy wishes of a few on the far left. These are middle ground solutions which it seems are about to be denied to us by an incoming Labour government who are only giving guarantees to those already wealthy. 

[Gnasher]

Both Labour and employment agencies estimated the initial investment would have lead to up to a million well paid green energy jobs. Our homes warmer and healthier and our bills lower. Our transport and sewage systems transformed. Plus much much more. 

 

 

https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/what-is-labours-28-billion-green-spending-promise/

 

 

https://www.raconteur.net/climate-crisis/uk-green-skills-gap-jobs-linkedin

 

 

 

Gone! All because Rachel decided the idol rich should keep their trinkets. 

[TheSire]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

 

They don't feel superior, they feel let down. 

 

Let's just roughly say 20% of the country are Labour left wing, Corbyn, Attlee etc and 20% are Tory right wing, Thatcher, Cameron, Osborne etc. 

 

 

Let's ignore that 40% or so and concentrate on the middle 60%  the centre left, centre and center right. 

 

The old center/center right are overwhelmingly in favour of assets like the Postoffice and Water etc being back in public hands. Many go fishing, holidays in Dorset and used to hang around their local Post office all day.  Its what small c Conservatives did in the 50s/60/70s.  They didnt want their Post Office closed and they didn’t want private companies filling their waters full of shit.

 

 

Most of the electorate agree privatisation has been a failure. It was a Thatcher idea to supposedly bring down bills through competition but its failed. Even most old small c Conservatives also know its failed. 

 

Most of the old center and center right also agree with a fairer more progressive tax system. As they had in the 50s/60s/70s.

 

Most of the CL/CR agree more homes should be built and more should be done to help young people onto the housing ladder. Their own grandchildrens problems are in their face.

 

Most of the electorate (bar the far right) agree we need action on climate change. The 23 billion green energy investment would have not only insulated a lot of (poorer)  homes it would have bought with it a lot of jobs and a lot of jobs. Not to mention the health benefits and environmental aspects. 

 

 

 

Most in the CL/CR agree, our public services need investment.

 

 

 

In short, these are not the crazy wishes of a few on the far left. These are middle ground solutions which it seems are about to be denied to us by an incoming Labour government who are only giving guarantees to those already wealthy. 

I was just referring to the online weirdos like Owen Jones etc tbh.

 

Politics seems totally fucked now where both the media and social media shite drive the debate and shit stir to force parties to take a stand on their selected issues (usually things like immigration so people are blinded to why the doubtry is fucked and get all wound up about immigrants breaking the country etc).

 

All of the above in your post seems absolute common sense, I just feel the press will just attack any sensible policy as some far left Marxist nonsense and it scares everyone off. A shit education system is a big reason why people are easily swayed or scared into voting against their interests.

 

You could argue the press will attack Labour no matter what so just stick to your guns though, we'll probably have to just wait and see and hopefully the country isn't completely burnt to a crisp in a few years and robots turn up to kill us all.

[Gnasher]

42 minutes ago, TheSire said:

I was just referring to the online weirdos like Owen Jones etc tbh.

 

Politics seems totally fucked now where both the media and social media shite drive the debate and shit stir to force parties to take a stand on their selected issues (usually things like immigration so people are blinded to why the doubtry is fucked and get all wound up about immigrants breaking the country etc).

 

All of the above in your post seems absolute common sense, I just feel the press will just attack any sensible policy as some far left Marxist nonsense and it scares everyone off. A shit education system is a big reason why people are easily swayed or scared into voting against their interests.

 

You could argue the press will attack Labour no matter what so just stick to your guns though, we'll probably have to just wait and see and hopefully the country isn't completely burnt to a crisp in a few years and robots turn up to kill us all.

 

Your first sentence "online weirdos like Owen Jones" come on!! Fucking hell.

 

I'm not an Owen Jones fan as I've posted above but this is getting ridiculous. He's been employed by various high profile experienced British editors as a journalist for the past three decades. The Independent  Tribune. The Guardian, The New Statesman and now the Scottish National to name a few. 

 

Boris Johnson was this countrys highest paid journalist for a long time for his column in the Telegraph. Make of that what you will.

 

 

Those publications/editors that employed/employ Jones as a journalist are either very foolish or he's one hell of a con artist.

 

 

Although that journalistic bastion The Jewish Chronicle publishes an article about him along the lines of  "Owen Jones is not a journalist' almost every six months so take your choice. 

[Section_31]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

 

They don't feel superior, they feel let down. 

 

Let's just roughly say 20% of the country are Labour left wing, Corbyn, Attlee etc and 20% are Tory right wing, Thatcher, Cameron, Osborne etc. 

 

 

Let's ignore that 40% or so and concentrate on the middle 60%  the centre left, centre and center right. 

 

The old center/center right are overwhelmingly in favour of assets like the Postoffice and Water etc being back in public hands. Many go fishing, holidays in Dorset and used to hang around their local Post office all day.  Its what small c Conservatives did in the 50s/60/70s.  They didnt want their Post Office closed and they didn’t want private companies filling their waters full of shit.

 

 

Most of the electorate agree privatisation has been a failure. It was a Thatcher idea to supposedly bring down bills through competition but its failed. Even most old small c Conservatives also know its failed. 

 

Most of the old center and center right also agree with a fairer more progressive tax system. As they had in the 50s/60s/70s.

 

Most of the CL/CR agree more homes should be built and more should be done to help young people onto the housing ladder. Their own grandchildrens problems are in their face.

 

Most of the electorate (bar the far right) agree we need action on climate change. The 23 billion green energy investment would have not only insulated a lot of (poorer)  homes it would have bought with it a lot of jobs and a lot of jobs. Not to mention the health benefits and environmental aspects. 

 

 

 

Most in the CL/CR agree, our public services need investment.

 

 

 

In short, these are not the crazy wishes of a few on the far left. These are middle ground solutions which it seems are about to be denied to us by an incoming Labour government who are only giving guarantees to those already wealthy. 

 

I agree, but my beef over that isn't with Starmer, it's with the Murdock/Rothamere press, and the lizard brained mob that puts the Tories in power, again and again.

 

People are attacking the wrong target. Corbyn was comprehensively destroyed for going down that path, as was Miliband and Brown. 

 

As I've said before, I hate the game and not the player.

 

I can't put into words how utterly in despair I am of the British public, you only have to look at the likes of Dennis Skinner being thrown out on his ear. 

 

I'll stay here and vote for Starmer as it's my only option, if I had the choice I'd be driving up and down the west coast of Australia on a Triumph motorcycle as the owner of not one, not two, but three barber shops, and would happily eat popcorn while I watch towns like Bury, Burnley and those other B places sink into the swamp of economic and social oblivion.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

 ... as the owner of not one, not two, but three barber shops...

 

One more and you'd have a barber shop quartet.

[Gnasher]

 

Wrong thread I know but what the fuck is Galloway on? Blimey. 

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

And another one

 

 

Cant read full article as it's paywall. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/19/help-labour-succeed-ex-tory-minister-nick-boles/

 

By the time Labour hit power they'll be able to form a cabinet from ex Tory MPs.

 

[Poor Scouser T]

Gnasher if we could discuss this without twitter or insults, not so long ago you were banging the drum for JC bringing Starmer down with his call for nationalization of industry, water, rail etc. You given up on that?

[Gnasher]

31 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Gnasher if we could discuss this without twitter or insults, not so long ago you were banging the drum for JC bringing Starmer down with his call for nationalization of industry, water, rail etc. You given up on that?

 

I've no idea what you're talking about (again) and the last post is a link from the Telegraph.

[Section_31]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

And another one

 

 

Cant read full article as it's paywall. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/19/help-labour-succeed-ex-tory-minister-nick-boles/

 

By the time Labour hit power they'll be able to form a cabinet from ex Tory MPs.

 

 

You love that other Tory though, the one that looks like Roddy McDowell from planet of the apes, I can't keep up with you you crazy cat.

[Anubis]

I’m curious as to what the difference is between the SNPs motion to demand an immediate ceasefire as opposed to the Labour amendment adding the word humanitarian? Dows the latter  mean bombing can resume after a short pause for a food drop, as opposed to a permanent ceasefire?

[Anubis]

Also, Blackpool may be heading for a by-election. Just call a GE already.

[Gnasher]

15 minutes ago, Anubis said:

Also, Blackpool may be heading for a by-election. Just call a GE already.

 

Scotty Benton? Striking resemblance to Scotty Parker. 

[Megadrive Man]

24 minutes ago, Anubis said:

I’m curious as to what the difference is between the SNPs motion to demand an immediate ceasefire as opposed to the Labour amendment adding the word humanitarian? Dows the latter  mean bombing can resume after a short pause for a food drop, as opposed to a permanent ceasefire?

 

Labour don't like the word Immediate. They do want a ceasefire at some point but just not right now.

 

I genuinely can't work out what their line in the sand is on this? 

 

 

[Dicko]

Immediate humanitarian ceasefire.

Humanitarian Pause rebranded.*

 

*Owen Jones.

A broken clock etc...

[Section_31]

[Section_31]

What opportunity is that then? The one that comes when you're still in opposition?

 

I don't know if these people genuinely don't get politics, or haven't been paying attention to where they've grown up, or they just like to lob shitballs. It's a bit mental.

 

"We're the left", like the left is all one big gang and everyone else isn't in the club. Owen Jones's left and a Garston docker's left are probably not very similar at all.

 

[Dicko]

And now Starmer is telling Labour to abstain because the SNP have used the term collective punishment.

Despite it being blindingly fucking obvious that's what Israel have done.

 

Dear me.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Joke party. 
 

 

[Dicko]

And now a three line whip to vote against the snp motion.

 

Keir Starmer in three acts ladies and gents.

[Bjornebye]

Falling into the Tories hands this and I wonder if Labour are doing the same again. 

[Gnasher]

14 hours ago, Section_31 said:

What opportunity is that then? The one that comes when you're still in opposition?

 

I don't know if these people genuinely don't get politics, or haven't been paying attention to where they've grown up, or they just like to lob shitballs. It's a bit mental.

 

"We're the left", like the left is all one big gang and everyone else isn't in the club. Owen Jones's left and a Garston docker's left are probably not very similar at all.

 

 

Sorry but unless I've read that wrong I'm failing to see what's upsetting or wrong with that statement. 

 

The last but one paragraph where he voices his objection to Labour not going through with the policies which were promised and were popular is 100% true. It's infuriating. 

 

A few examples off the top of my head We need a fairer tax system (you mentioned Capital gains tax in another thread). A fairer tax system more beneficial to a Garston docker than a billionaire oil executive perhaps. Most in the country agree those with the broadest shoulders should pay a bit more. 

 

Most in the country would welcome our assets being taken back into public hands. Mosr understood these things don't happen overnight but even if it took a decade or do. Our waterways and water rates are a national embarrassment. Our energy bills the highest in Europe. An intention by Labour to do the right thing would probably be enough. 

 

Most in the country want the green energy scheme, which would create up to a million well paid jobs and push  Britain out of the economic and environmental doldrums. It would bring with it lower energy bills and help the environmen. I've put the George Monibot figures further up but here they are again. If they are fairly accurate the latest Labour Uturn could've been fairly easily paid for. A lot of it from that postcode in West London you mentioned in the inequality thread. 

 

 

 

 

Also what part of him saying about Labour  "not addressing this country's injustices and the crisises affecting modern Britain" would a Docker or anyone object to? It's a bit  broadbrushed and vague but I can't see much wrong with that observation. If he's talking about Gaza I think the latest polling shows he's overwhelmingly with the majority of public opinion. Especially Labour voters, 84% I think we're in favour of an immediate ceasefire. So not really controversial. 

 

 

I think you may be playing the man not the balls with little Owen on this one Sect tbh.