General Election 2019

[A Red]

Just now, Strontium Dog™ said:

I think negotiating a deal, then campaigning against the deal you just made, is the part which people have trouble getting their head around.

They wont even commit to whether they will campaign for or against the deal they negotiate. That has to happen after the deal at a special conference

[aRdja]

1 hour ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

If the UK leaves the EU, it doesn't matter what your other policies are

It’s almost as if Switzerland and Norway don’t exist.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I had this mistaken belief that people could make their own minds up and didn't have to do exactly the same thing as what the party they voted for suggests they do/don't do. 

[Strontium]

3 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

It’s almost as if Switzerland and Norway don’t exist.

 

They do exist, and they're in the EU single market.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

It just baffles me how thick people can be. No-one knew what they were voting for. Not a single proper deal was on the table. Now there is an option people are better informed. How can't people see that. 

 

Because Brexit for many has always been about hiding their Xenophobic and Racist traits behind a political referendum, for certain politicians and businessmen/women you can add greed to the list. They aren't going to change their stance or the lies they spout and I doubt they ever will. Just have to hope that the percentage of those who are intelligent enough and don't stand to gain from it all have a change of heart. They can't go on blaming others all the time, at some point they'll have to point the finger elsewhere. The thick bastards will see things through until they die. They'll probably be sat there in their shit stained kegs blaming the EU about their plight rather than cut backs made by their own Gov't to Nursing homes and the elderly. 

[polymerpunkah]

13 minutes ago, A Red said:

Good line! 

 

Do you think i've summarised the parties positions on brexit correctly? Do you agree that the election will mainly be about brexit?

Gratuitous, but I couldn't resist.

 

Your post, and several in other threads, did provide the answer to a question I've been asking myself this morning: why did Johnson choose election without passing his withdrawal agrement?

 

I was wondering if he planned on going back to the EU to renegotiate, assuming a majority, and that his polling was telling him that a majority was a possibility.

 

But maybe the better, simpler answer is that his polling is telling him that "I'll deliver Brexit" is a better vote-getter than "I delivered Brexit".

 

As for what the main election issue is, it looks like the Lib Dems, the Cons and the SNP will all try to make it the main issue--the question will be how well Labour can sell their message.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Don't vote for the hard Brexit Lib Dems. 

[aRdja]

So it *is* possible to be a prosperous european country outside of the EU?!

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, polymerpunkah said:

As for what the main election issue is, it looks like the Lib Dems, the Cons and the SNP will all try to make it the main issue--the question will be how well Labour can sell their message.

 

It's a hard message to sell. The Tories can say: if you want Brexit, vote for us. The Lib Dems and SNP can say: if you want to stop Brexit, vote for us. Very simple messages and easy to understand.

 

Whereas Labour has to persuade the electorate that keeping this shitshow going for another 6-12 months while they renegotiate a deal, then put it to a second referendum, while not being sure which way they'd campaign in said referendum, is the best option. I mean, you can see why they're trying to move the battleground away from Europe and on to safer ground, like the NHS.

[Rico1304]

 

[Strontium]

2 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

So it *is* possible to be a prosperous european country outside of the EU?!

 

Did you miss the part where we're leaving the single market, which Norway and Switzerland are members of?

[Numero Veinticinco]

6 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

So it *is* possible to be a prosperous european country outside of the EU?!

Yes. It is. It’s the being in the EU then leaving without a deal or without a deal that protects the economy that costs the country £100,000,000,000.00 that’s damaging.  
 

Are you trolling again or being obtuse? 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Anyway, back to the GE. I think it will be either a slim Tory majority or Tory party will be the biggest party. Good times. 

[aRdja]

6 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

 

Fucking hell. Seriously there isn’t a more insufferable bunch  on Twitter than those undemocratic #FBPE twats.

[polymerpunkah]

5 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

It's a hard message to sell. The Tories can say: if you want Brexit, vote for us. The Lib Dems and SNP can say: if you want to stop Brexit, vote for us. Very simple messages and easy to understand.

 

Whereas Labour has to persuade the electorate that keeping this shitshow going for another 6-12 months while they renegotiate a deal, then put it to a second referendum, while not being sure which way they'd campaign in said referendum, is the best option. I mean, you can see why they're trying to move the battleground away from Europe and on to safer ground, like the NHS.

By "Labour's message" I was talking about everything in their platform that isn't Brexit.

 

All those other issues that might be of some importance to the people of the UK.

 

The ones that the other party's don't, apparently, want to talk about.

[Duff Man]

Any policy idea that is longer than two words is just too difficult for people to understand. I mean of course it is.

 

Fuck me.

[aRdja]

5 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Yes. It is. It’s the being in the EU then leaving without a deal or without a deal that protects the economy that costs the country £100,000,000,000.00 that’s damaging.  
 

Are you trolling again or being obtuse? 

Please stop this. 
 

I’ve been consistent for the past year or so that the righty thing to do now is for the country to leave the EU with a deal that’s going to do as little damage to the economy as possible. Something like the Common Market 2.0.

[moof]

2 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Any policy idea that is longer than two words is just too difficult for people to understand. I mean of course it is.

 

Fuck me.

It’s beyond insulting

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Plus, it's not about how hard the message is to sell. It's about selling a realistic, obtainable message/outcome. We shouldn't be naive. The Tories are favourites to get elected. It's a choice between their Brexit or Labour plan. The SNP and Libs can promise all sorts, safe in the knowledge that they'll never get the chance to implement what they've promised. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

Please stop this. 
 

I’ve been consistent for the past year or so that the righty thing to do now is for the country to leave the EU with a deal that’s going to do as little damage to the economy as possible. Something like the Common Market 2.0.

No, I'm asking a question. So I won't stop. 

 

You can be as consistent as you want. The options - in the reality of the situation - don't care what you want or think. So as I say, yes, it's possible to be a country outside of the EU and be prosperous. That's not the situation we are in, so why obtusely pretend it is? We are a country inside the EU looking to leave and have only a number of options to do so. 

[Duff Man]

May be worth asking where the whole 'Labour's Brexit policy is too difficult to understand' shit came from, and if there are any ulterior motives for it being framed that way.

 

Also may be worth contrasting it with other policies aimed at solving similarly difficult issues and seeing if there's any difference in levels of complexity.

 

Or maybe not. Maybe just roll your eyes and sigh because that's what Emily Maitlis did.

[Duff Man]

I tell you what, I'm not voting for any party whose climate change policy isn't simply 'WIND FARMS!'.

[aRdja]

9 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

No, I'm asking a question. So I won't stop. 

 

You can be as consistent as you want. The options - in the reality of the situation - don't care what you want or think. So as I say, yes, it's possible to be a country outside of the EU and be prosperous. That's not the situation we are in, so why obtusely pretend it is? We are a country inside the EU looking to leave and have only a number of options to do so. 

You’ve accused me of trolling enough, and I’ve continuously denied. I’m not sure why you keep doing it.
 

The people voted to leave the EU. Yeah that sucks. I would’ve liked for my future kids to have access to education and work in other European countries. However, there is already a successful template of which you could model your future relationship on.

 

Strontium Dog posted ”if the UK leaves the EU it doesnt matter what your other policies are” and that is not even close to being the truth.

[Strontium]

8 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

Strontium Dog posted ”if the UK leaves the EU it doesnt matter what your other policies are” and that is not even close to being the truth.

 

Well it is, because none of the proposed Leave scenarios have us remaining in the single market.

[moof]

Brexit isn’t even close to being the biggest issue we face. It’s just a massive cunt distraction