Other Football - 2018/19 Season

[No2]

1 hour ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I think the more important thing is whether or not playing on loan lower in the league system and doing well means going back to their club and being given a chance, or being sold as they can't break through. Say, for example, Harry Wilson and Mason Mount have brilliant seasons, Ryan Kent too, they come back to their clubs... what then? At the very best, a bit part player for the Carabao cup? Mount goes away, plays 29 games for Vitesse Arnhem, scores 1 in 3. Comes back, and straight in for... a loan to Derby. Harry Wilson, older then Joe Gomez, goes away and scores fucking 7 in 13, comes back... loan to Derby. 

 

We either need to start giving these players chances and rotating them in at the expense of other attackers, or we sell them so they can build their career in the Premier League, which is actually where they need to be to prove they can do it. That's going to be much easier for them if they don't have the likes of Mane, Salah, Kante, et al ahead of them. So managers need to give them a way in, but are under such pressure to perform that it's difficult and end up selling them for 10-20m. 

I think if Klopp sends you on loan you're done. All the evidence suggests he wants the players at the club rather than in the hands of others. Ben Woodburn being the chief example, kept him around and didn't play him,  I think he badly wanted him to be able to take the next step but he wasn't up to it. Once he's gone I can't see a way back.

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, No2 said:

I think if Klopp sends you on loan you're done. All the evidence suggests he wants the players at the club rather than in the hands of others. Ben Woodburn being the chief example, kept him around and didn't play him,  I think he badly wanted him to be able to take the next step but he wasn't up to it. Once he's gone I can't see a way back.

Agree with that, mate. 

[Jairzinho]

I think it has also helped the likes of TAA and Gomez that our defenders were largely a bit shit. That, clearly, isn't the case with the forwards.

 

Ideally, we'd find Premier League clubs that want to take our promising attacking players on loan. The problem there obviously is that they need to prove they're worth the gamble for a club in the bottom 14 of the league. 

 

Not that I think it's likely Wilson will ever be as good as Mane or Salah, for example, but there simply isn't a route for him to prove he is without leaving the club permanently. Spanish style buy back clauses seems the best bet. 

[manwiththestick]

51 minutes ago, No2 said:

I think if Klopp sends you on loan you're done. All the evidence suggests he wants the players at the club rather than in the hands of others. Ben Woodburn being the chief example, kept him around and didn't play him,  I think he badly wanted him to be able to take the next step but he wasn't up to it. Once he's gone I can't see a way back.

Dan Sturridge made his way back.

[No2]

9 minutes ago, manwiththestick said:

Dan Sturridge made his way back.

That is true but of course it was heavily influenced by the fact his contract was in the final year and nobody would take him. It's a free hit to all intents and purposes.

[etho]

Ben Woodburn is still only 18 mind...

[Guest]

It's hard to say what the future is for a very young player who is sent out on loan. Gomez was a young player who was brought in from outside the club for a fair amount of money (£3.5m if I recall) compared to perhaps a player from the ranks or even a player for say £500,000 from another club.

 

I would say once they hit 21 if they still haven't made it here, it's unlikely they will but 18/19 and they're out on loan there's still a chance.

[El Rojo]

Maybe Wilson will be the exception to the rule if he keeps playing like he did last night. Scored at the weekend too.

[TheHowieLama]

When you look back, it wasn't that the players who went out on loan didn't have a chance (either before being sent out, or on their return) - it was more to do with the fact they were all shite.

 

I can't think of a single one who has made a decent career. In fact is it only Coady and Ibe who are in the league now?

[Aventus]

3 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Ideally, we'd find Premier League clubs that want to take our promising attacking players on loan. The problem there obviously is that they need to prove they're worth the gamble for a club in the bottom 14 of the league. 

 

I reckon we'd be better off loaning players who are at the top of the championship and pushing for promotion. 

 

At least that way they'd be used to playing attacking football. 

 

Loaning to the bottom half of the prem would be counter productive, no good sending an attacker to West ham where they'd barely get a sniff of the ball, and no good sending a defender there when they'd be pinned in the box with about 6 other defenders within smelling distance, only to come back here and having to learn how to defend in a high line with little protection against mistakes. 

 

 

[Jairzinho]

11 minutes ago, aventus said:

I reckon we'd be better off loaning players who are at the top of the championship and pushing for promotion. 

 

At least that way they'd be used to playing attacking football. 

 

Loaning to the bottom half of the prem would be counter productive, no good sending an attacker to West ham where they'd barely get a sniff of the ball, and no good sending a defender there when they'd be pinned in the box with about 6 other defenders within smelling distance, only to come back here and having to learn how to defend in a high line with little protection against mistakes. 

 

 

Well, it depends.

 

A side like Bournemouth would be better for a player that whoever Pulis is currently managing in the Championship.

 

I agree the style of football is very important.

[TheHowieLama]

2 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

I agree the style of football is very important.

Only if the end game is having the player come back.

 

If the goal is to sell him on then it would be better for them to show they can function in an alehouse Premier side.

[Captain Turdseye]

2 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

When you look back, it wasn't that the players who went out on loan didn't have a chance (either before being sent out, or on their return) - it was more to do with the fact they were all shite.

 

I can't think of a single one who has made a decent career. In fact is it only Coady and Ibe who are in the league now?

 

Suso is at Milan but they’re pretty shit now. 

[Oh Buoy]

Can we loan Wilson out to any team that plays United in the cups? 

[an tha]

Watford rotate their squad with only defender Craig Cathcart remaining from the side that began the 1-1 draw at Fulham on Saturday. None of the 10 other players in their starting line-up have began a Premier League match this season.

Watford: Gomes, Navarro, Cathcart, Mariappa, Masina, Femenia, Wilmot, Chalobah, Quina, Sema, Success. Subs: Dahlberg, Kabasele, Holebas, Hughes, Capoue, Pereyra, Gray.

 

Watford! Why just why....play a stong team FFS and have a go and you might just actually win something.

Not in Europe FFS so why fuck around like this.

[magicrat]

9 minutes ago, an tha said:

Watford rotate their squad with only defender Craig Cathcart remaining from the side that began the 1-1 draw at Fulham on Saturday. None of the 10 other players in their starting line-up have began a Premier League match this season.

Watford: Gomes, Navarro, Cathcart, Mariappa, Masina, Femenia, Wilmot, Chalobah, Quina, Sema, Success. Subs: Dahlberg, Kabasele, Holebas, Hughes, Capoue, Pereyra, Gray.

 

Watford! Why just why....play a stong team FFS and have a go and you might just actually win something.

Not in Europe FFS so why fuck around like this.

Finding it hard to give a shit about Watford winning anything tbh

[an tha]

1 minute ago, magicrat said:

Finding it hard to give a shit about Watford winning anything tbh

A fair point in full...but i just don't understand why a team with just a game a week can't have a go and you know maybe give their fans something.

 

[magicrat]

1 minute ago, an tha said:

A fair point in full...but i just don't understand why a team with just a game a week can't have a go and you know maybe give their fans something.

 

League takes precedence even for the shite teams these days in the early rounds. Dropping out the premiership is such a big deal. Don't agree with it but moneyball rules

[Pidge]

I see the Wembley sale has been backed by the FA.

 

How can a ground that cost £800m to build be sold for £600m so soon?  Guess it must lose half its value as soon as you drive it off the lot...

[Aventus]

5 hours ago, Pidge said:

I see the Wembley sale has been backed by the FA.

 

How can a ground that cost £800m to build be sold for £600m so soon?  Guess it must lose half its value as soon as you drive it off the lot...

You must have been off school the week they were teaching fractions. 

[Pidge]

12 minutes ago, aventus said:

You must have been off school the week they were teaching fractions.  

Idiom.

[Aventus]

14 hours ago, Pidge said:

Idiom.

I don't think you're an idiom, you shouldn't be so hard on yourself, we all make mistakes. 

[Bjornebye]

C Ronaldo accused of rape.... 

[moof]

Yikes, just saw that. It’s my understanding that Der Spiegel have investigated and ran with the claims, I believe them to be a credible source. Very bad news for him if true 

 

Mayorga's lawyer's claim relies in part on a document, which includes Ronaldo's description of what happened that night. In that document, the soccer player is quoted as saying: "She said no and stop several times."

[Bjornebye]

9 minutes ago, moof said:

Yikes, just saw that. It’s my understanding that Der Spiegel have investigated and ran with the claims, I believe them to be a credible source. Very bad news for him if true 

 

Mayorga's lawyer's claim relies in part on a document, which includes Ronaldo's description of what happened that night. In that document, the soccer player is quoted as saying: "She said no and stop several times."

And he paid her a few hundred grand hush money which could be traced.