Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Rico1304]

The New Statesman are fully aware Corbyn doesn't control the Labour press office which is staffed with people loyal to Watson and McNicol. Hence having to set up an alternative Twitter account of his own. And no, he can't do anything about firing them as he doesn't have that power under the party structure.

And they're infographics, not memes.

You can make your cult comment now, Rico.

But you still think he can win an election and run the country when he can't control the party?

[Anubis]

But you still think he can win an election and run the country when he can't control the party?

He can't control the party because of the way it's structured. There are motions that will be made in September to make the party as a whole more accountable to members. Until then, I don't know.

[Dr Nowt]

Have to be honest, that second one mentioning "the Theresa May" in particular looks fairly obviously to be a stitch-up.

 

First thing I thought when I saw it, and reading what Anubis has said does nothing to change my mind.

 

What an incredibly poisonous mess the party really is in.

[Fowlers God]

I joined Labour to vote for Corbyn and he still has my vote. He speaks for what I believe in.

[Rico1304]

He can't control the party because of the way it's structured. There are motions that will be made in September to make the party as a whole more accountable to members. Until then, I don't know.

I probably phrased it incorrectly - if he can't unite the party, irrespective of efforts to change the structure (and I don't know enough to comment on if the structure was changed to suit other leaders) then how can he expect to change the minds of non-labour voters? It comes across as shambolic.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Worth a read...

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/labour-bus-jeremy-corbyn-memes

I follow quite a few pro-Labour and pro-Corbyn things on Facebook and Twitter and I've never seen any of the memes given as examples of shitness in that article.  That's probably indicative of how shit they really are.

 

Philosophical question - is a meme a meme if nobody shares it?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

The New Statesman are fully aware Corbyn doesn't control the Labour press office which is staffed with people loyal to Watson and McNicol. Hence having to set up an alternative Twitter account of his own. And no, he can't do anything about firing them as he doesn't have that power under the party structure.

 

And they're infographics, not memes.

 

You can make your cult comment now, Rico.

Never heard of the cult.

[Anubis]

I probably phrased it incorrectly - if he can't unite the party, irrespective of efforts to change the structure (and I don't know enough to comment on if the structure was changed to suit other leaders) then how can he expect to change the minds of non-labour voters? It comes across as shambolic.

Well even people who have been against him admitted that he came across very well in his interview with Andrew Neil, so I believe that given sufficiently fair exposure then he can change minds. I'm not Nostradamus so I couldn't predict if it's enough.

 

However, I'm at the point where this has become a make or break fight for the direction of the party so it's a fight worth having for me.

[Jairzinho]

Well even people who have been against him admitted that he came across very well in his interview with Andrew Neil, so I believe that given sufficiently fair exposure then he can change minds. I'm not Nostradamus so I couldn't predict if it's enough.

 

However, I'm at the point where this has become a make or break fight for the direction of the party so it's a fight worth having for me.

 

Exactly this. I don't even expect him to be leader in 2020. The hope is that the Labour Party become a Labour Party again.

[Jose Jones]

I probably phrased it incorrectly - if he can't unite the party, irrespective of efforts to change the structure (and I don't know enough to comment on if the structure was changed to suit other leaders) then how can he expect to change the minds of non-labour voters? It comes across as shambolic.

Well no, and that's the problem and part of the reason Labour is polling so badly.

There is definitely a climate for Corbyn's policies - the anti austerity, pro people, renationalising some vital public services, etc. Throughout the west there has been a massive surge in support for the right (blaming foreigners) and the left (blaming neoliberalism) all speaking to similar themes of disillusionment.

 

If the whole of the Labour Party had got behind Corbyn and presented a united capable alternative to the Tories they would be well in with a chance at the next election. The media is a problem, but if the whole party apparatus was functioning a social media strategy could get around this.

 

Instead a lot of the PLP have actively worked to undermine his leadership and made the right wing media's job easy by feeding them continued tales of incompetence and division.

 

This is partly Corbyn's fault as he hasn't been able to win enough around to convince the "moderate" MPs that getting behind him is a good idea, but I think it's pretty unreasonable to expect anyone to have the charisma and organisational skills to pull that off in the face of such opposition.

[VladimirIlyich]

I joined Labour to vote for Corbyn and he still has my vote. He speaks for what I believe in.

My thoughts exactly.

[Jose Jones]

I joined Labour to vote for Corbyn and he still has my vote. He speaks for what I believe in.

Entryist Trot!

[Rotpeter]

Well even people who have been against him admitted that he came across very well in his interview with Andrew Neil, so I believe that given sufficiently fair exposure then he can change minds. I'm not Nostradamus so I couldn't predict if it's enough.

 

However, I'm at the point where this has become a make or break fight for the direction of the party so it's a fight worth having for me.

Nail on head.  This is an existential struggle for Labour as something other than a mimetic off-spring of the tories

[Denny Crane]

Worth a read...

http://www.newstatesman.com/labour-bus-jeremy-corbyn-memes

This reads like the New Statesman needed someone to write a critical article on Labour's social media stuff. Get Robbins to do it he's one of us and will strike the right tone. If I worked in tech I would be ashamed to put my name to that article.

 

It would have been good of the magazine to get a neutral writer who works/worked in that field to offer up a genuine insight of the whole approach. How many impressions, demographics they are trying to reach and people who work in his team etc.

 

This reads like an article written for a 40something audience who have very little understanding of social media. People who have grown up on PowerPoint presentations and view social media through that prism.

[VladimirIlyich]

Nail on head. This is an existential struggle for Labour as something other than a mimetic off-spring of the tories

Very much so. Its a fight for a Labour Party true to its raison d'etre or simply a watered down tory party. A fight against a US one party system, if you like.

[Denny Crane]

https://mobile.twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/849326273390424065/video/1

[Cardie]

Is it the press responsibility to make sure the opposition parties voice is heard?

 

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

[Rotpeter]

Very much so. Its a fight for a Labour Party true to its raison d'etre or simply a watered down tory party. A fight against a US one party system, if you like.

To be honest and maybe a touch over-dramtic, [dennis_tooth_mode_on]it's a fight for democracy.  The right to have a choice to make.  The right to have a different opinion than the msm media and corporatocracy say is acceptable.[/dennis_tooth_mode_off]

[Rotpeter]

Is it the press responsibility to make sure the opposition parties voice is heard?

 

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

In today's day and age the press' responsibilities begin and end with their fiduciary responsibilities to their owners.

[Section_31]

There's a lot of truth in what Corbyn says about the media but it's only part of the problem.

 

Some freedom fighters just don't make good Presidents.

[Fowlers God]

There's a lot of truth in what Corbyn says about the media but it's only part of the problem.

 

Some freedom fighters just don't make good Presidents.

And despite all the negativity that surrounds Corbyn he is still in control of our/my party and the unelectable is still elected. And despite every attack (even within) he does not waiver in his continued message of a party that speaks for the working people.

 

Long may that continue

[Section_31]

And despite all the negativity that surrounds Corbyn he is still in control of our/my party and the unelectable is still elected. And despite every attack (even within) he does not waiver in his continued message of a party that speaks for the working people.

 

Long may that continue

 

If that's all you want then by all means that's what he seems to be doing, but he's not broadening Labour's appeal, just appealing to people who have always been socialists or socialists at heart. His popularity and that of his party are on a downward spiral and, far from being in control of the party, I'd say he's anything but. There's probably a mix of despondency and outright disdain for him among the MPs, save for McDonnelle and Abbott and other longstanding allies. 

 

I still strongly believe that's what high profile Labour MPs ran or are running for Metro mayor jobs, because they don't see any other way they're ever going to be able to influence policy otherwise. 

[Stickman]

According to Dan Hodges if you're a member of the Labour Party you're a big fat racist .....I fucking hate this cunt I find it hard to believe he's Glenda Jackson's son.

 

This was printed on Sunday

 

If you're still a member of Labour tomorrow YOU ARE RACIST

 

Soon after Ken Livingstone emerged –smug and gloating – from the hearing that had just ruled taunting Jews with the spectre of Adolf Hitler is perfectly compatible with Labour Party membership, I was contacted by a Labour MP. 

‘What do you want us to do?’ he asked. ‘They don’t give a damn about what we say or do. Front-bench resignation and no confidence motions didn’t work. What’s left? Leave the party and they win. My constituents lose.’

He’s a good, dedicated MP, who is implacably opposed to Jeremy Corbyn’s rule, has spoken out frequently and publicly against him, and steadfastly refused to take the Shadow Cabinet shilling. And he’s now destroying his party.

 

Not Ken Livingstone. Not Corbyn or his ermine-clad gofer, Shami Chakrabarti – but the good, dedicated party members who are letting Labour drift to destruction.

It’s important to understand what happened on Tuesday. Livingstone was found guilty. He was not acquitted. The panel did not fall for his crackpot, alt-Left ramblings. They found he had brought Labour into disrepute with ‘prejudicial’ and ‘grossly detrimental’ comments. Then they shrugged and said: ‘See you next year.’

This is what the Labour Party does now. Not just the Livingstones and the Corbynites, but the decent Labour members. Where once they raged against intolerance and prejudice, now they shrug it off. Yes, some will voice an objection. Or write a letter. Or send a tweet saying how ‘sad’ or ‘troubling’ it all is. And then they will move on. ‘Right, let’s get back out on those doorsteps!’ they say to one another, in their comradely way.

 

Unless you’re a Jewish comrade, of course. Some have said Labour is now a racist party. And they’re right. But it’s not just a racist party; it’s an apartheid one. Jews are tolerated, but only as second-class citizens. Imagine if a Labour member casually used the word ‘Paki’. Or accused ‘the blacks’ of being responsible for the slave trade. Or toured the airwaves claiming radical Muslims were Nazi collaborators. Retribution – rightly – would be swift and sure. But use those same slurs against Jews – ‘Zios’ is the favoured phrase – and you will be punished only with the Labour shrug.

Institutional racism is now so embedded within Labour that if it weren’t so disgusting it would be comical. Remember, this is the party that saw the publication of its whitewashed report into its own anti-Semitism disrupted by one of its Jewish MPs being abused.

Many Labour members have told me how difficult they have found things in the wake of the Livingstone verdict. ‘We have to stay and fight,’ several have said. No, you don’t. You have to leave. And this is why.

 

When decent Labour members say ‘Ken Livingstone is not who we are’ they are deluding themselves. Livingstone is not an aberration; he is Labour royalty. Whenever he stands for the party’s ruling executive, he regularly tops the poll. And when he returns, he will top it again. If good people remain, they are facilitating Labour’s racism. ‘Not in my name’ is a noble sentiment. But not only is it being done in their name; it’s being done with their cash.

They are also acting as facilitators in a political sense. Corbyn has secured one genuine achievement: the size of the Labour membership. And every time he points to it and his chest swells with pride, it is inflated by Labour members.

Then there is the ‘stay and fight’ canard. Staying and fighting is fine. But the opposite is happening. Not fighting. Not rocking the boat. Not giving Corbyn an internal target he can use to define himself, and mobilise his followers.

 

That is the strategy of Labour moderates. Ferocious acquiescence. It is not good enough. Not when confronted with the evil of anti-Semitism.

This weekend, Labour members – yes, the good, decent members – have been out asking people to vote for their party in the local elections.

Think what it means to ask someone to vote Labour after what we have seen this week.

‘Hi, I’m from Labour. We officially tolerate anti-Semitism. Will you please support us?’

 

The party that once argued for zero-tolerance of racism is now asking people to close their eyes to racism. Close their eyes, and mimic the Labour shrug.

Imagine if those efforts bear fruit. ‘What does it say about our country?’ Labour activists wailed after the Brexit vote. Well, what will it say about the country if it embraces the party of Ken Livingstone?

This should not be a ‘difficult’ time for Labour. It should represent a moment of piercing clarity.

Labour membership has become morally unjustifiable, at least for as long as Ken Livingstone holds the same membership card.

So, let’s return to the question: ‘What should we do?’ This. When you say ‘not in my name’, mean it. If you’re in the Shadow Cabinet, stop acting like a 1980s pop star headlining Sun City, and leave. If you’re a Labour MP, resign the whip. If you’re a Labour member, cancel your membership. Then pledge clearly and unequivocally you will not return until Ken Livingstone has been expelled. Because if you don’t, one day soon you will be asked: ‘When they came for Jews, what did you do?’ And your response will be to shrug.

Jeremy Corbyn’s initiative to impose VAT on private-school tuition fees caused a temporary panic among his colleagues. ‘A couple are thinking they might want to send their own kids private,’ an MP informs me, ‘and they were worrying it might affect them. Then someone said, “Look, it doesn’t matter. We’re not going to win the Election, so what have we got to worry about?” ’ If Labour gets an unexpected polls spike, watch for the policy to come ‘under review’.
 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4393408/If-member-Labour-tomorrow-RACIST.html

 

 

 

 

[cloggypop]

Corbyn announces some decent seemingly popular policies such as raising the minimum wage to a tenner, so raising wages for 6 million people.

 

Largely ignored by many of his MPs and media who instead try and use antisemitism to attack him.

[dennis tooth]

Meanwhile tories are helping the Saudi genocide in Yemen.

But Corbyn taxng private schools is beyond the pale. And an anti zionist is now an anti jew. Might wanna tell the millions of anti zionist jews that dan.