Brian Clough is dead.

[Guest LEE R HARKIN]

No. Im sorry but im actually happy.

 

This apology, did he donate any proceeds from his book to any Hillsbrough fund? You know, the book where he said if everyone had behaved/had ticket/not drunk then everything would have been hunky dory? Did he?

 

I punched the air with glee when me dad told me before. Im sick of this fucking pc world where we all have to behave so nice and say nice things. Its getting to be like an old boys club on this forum. Did clough afford us any pc moments? Did he fuck. Oh but it was alright coz he apologised for the grief, anguish and utter pain he caused family and friends of the 96. Get real.

Lifes a shitter sometimes and it doesnt make anyone less of a person for saying clough is a twat.

 

He sold books with that drivel in it. As has been mentioned he was an upstanding member of the management world, hunderds of thousands would have looked up to him. Hundreds of thousands would have believed the utter shite he came out with. Hundreds of thousands wouldnt have known about the 'apology'.

 

Stop licking each others arses and say what you think. And please dont come back at me with you are all reasoned individuals and im some kind of neanderthal. The man was a grade A fucking cunt.

 

Yes im sorry for his family but thats more than he gave to the families of the 96. And for me the families and the memories are far more important than that twat. I hope he's burning right now.

 

If any of you dont like what i say then, by your reckoning, i could just fucking apologise and we'd all be friends again.

 

 

 

He was a great footballing man,and his achivements as a manager should not be overlooked, but at the end of the day he loved to be outspoken,and what he said about US at Hillsborough should never be forgotten. if you've read any of his former players autobiographies you will know Clough hated Liverpool,I think Hillsborough was just an excuse for a bitter,sick,past it old man to put the boot in.

 

RIP Mr Clough --- JUSTICE FOR THE 96

[Gav]

If you honestly believe that it makes you a decent person by holding views such as this then good luck to you. Personally, you've gone down massively in my books mate.

 

 

Believe whatever the fuck you want.

 

 

Tom , wtf is it with this personal crap -You have a opinion ,I have a different one - you respect the guy, I don't ,I think he was a Cnut of a man and I'll shed no tears over him,sorry for his family and all that but its a discussion Tom ,but I don't need my morality brought into question and I certainly don't see why it should cause you to change your opinion of me as a person, thats crap and you know it.

The day that Maggie drops her clogs I'll be havin some celebratory pints , what'll you be doin?? The same ??? :whistle:

 

read your signature again , bit of irony there ehh :tease:

[rafasredmen]

Ooooo! Tough guy eh!

 

Gotta say, though, Nail on the head!

Those who have a clear consience and who are correct in what they say can be as sanctimonious as they fucking well please.

 

 

Tell you what knobhead, I'll email your comments across to Nigel Clough and his family. Perhaps they'll return the favour of pissing on your grave one day.

 

Wanker.

how does calling you a sanctimonious twat make me a tough guy??? and how the fuck do you justify holding the moral high ground with that banner of yours calling special olympians retarded??? sort yourself out tom, and when you do i'll be waiting with open arms for you to join me at the imoral low ground.see you soon.rrm.

[fivetimes]

well back to clough, his name was booed by a large section of our end last night. no minutes silence, and i am glad, that wouldhave shown on sky, and the media would have loved to have a go at us.

 

It is mentioned in the star about us booing, and woolnough says he deserved "more respect than that from the liverpool fans".

[Dave H]

well back to clough, his name was booed by a large section of our end last night. no minutes silence, and i am glad, that wouldhave shown on sky, and the media would have loved to have a go at us.

 

It is mentioned in the star about us booing, and woolnough says he deserved "more respect than that from the liverpool fans".

 

The Star! who actually give a fuck what the put in that new paper except the topless & scantily clad birds anyway.

[fivetimes]

just saw that article, (someone sent me it on net), and a pic of lucy pinder.....fnarr fnarr.....time for toilet methinks!

[Dave H]

just saw that article, (someone sent me it on net), and a pic of lucy pinder.....fnarr fnarr.....time for toilet methinks!

 

 

You'll go blind you know O_o

[Total Longo]

If kelvin Mackenzie apologised tomorrow would he be forgiven?

 

No? Didn't think so.

[Tom R]

The S*n and Clough disrespected and insulted the dead.

That's exactly what some of you are doing.

 

Hence, you are no fucking better than either of them.

 

But then, two wrongs make a right don't they...

[Christian]

I think that there was a post early in this thread and it mentioned how difficult it is to make comment on anything that relates to Hillsborough. This essentially is what is happening with this thread and emotion is running all over the place. Personally I agree with Tom R. But, let sleeping dogs (and legendary football managers) die and let's go forward together.

[Uncle Travelling Matt]

The S*n and Clough disrespected and insulted the dead.

That's exactly what some of you are doing.

 

Hence, you are no fucking better than either of them.

 

But then, two wrongs make a right don't they...

 

As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with Tom.....

[Barrington Womble]

The S*n and Clough disrespected and insulted the dead.

That's exactly what some of you are doing.

 

Hence, you are no fucking better than either of them.

 

But then, two wrongs make a right don't they...

 

the difference is though tom, clough insulted the dead with lies. when people on here are insulting the dead, they're only speaking the truth (which by definition means they're not insulting the dead imo) - what he said was dispicable and used to sell a book, hence his big tv appearance and discussing it further. he then earnt another dollar by doing an apology in 442.

 

i don't know if you can remember 1994 when the book came out - but nobody who was informed (and if he wasn't informed he shouldn't be talking about it in his book) at that time held those opinions. everyone knew at that point what the truth was. clough decided getting his face in the papers and on tv was more important.

 

personally i couldn't give two f*cks if he's alive or dead to be quite honest. i feel sympathy for his family, but that's it. today 600 people have died haiti in floods, and this man is grabbing all the headlines. i'm sorry, but i feel my sympathy and thoughts should be somewhere else and not with a man who's insulted our own.

[Red Nick]

BRIAN CLOUGH RIP

 

Sorry he couldnt get the respect deserved

[Shanklys Ghost]

The S*n and Clough disrespected and insulted the dead.

That's exactly what some of you are doing.

 

Hence, you are no fucking better than either of them.

 

But then, two wrongs make a right don't they...

 

 

Dont you fucking dare say im as bad as the s*n or even clough. Dont you fucking dare!

 

That is a fucking disgraceful thing to imply. I havent told lies about clough and i havent used my 'position' on here to make any money from anything ive said. I havent made up COMPLETE FUCKING UNTRUTHS like the s*n did!

 

Arguments on here and shouting and that is fine on here, i think. But seriously you have to take a long hard look at yourself for those comments.

You have no idea about me tom, how fucking dare you say im as bad as 'them'. That is SO over the fucking top and you have no idea how upset that has made me.

 

You might laugh at that, you might say you got to me, but its still a fucking real situation here concerning the s*n and Hillsbrough. Im seriously at a loss as how to explain just how you came to the conclusion that im as bad as the s*n.

 

You are a piece of shit for that comment. And i would hope others feel the same way. Fucking disgrace!

[Anubis]

As a general question, if somebody was not respected in life, should they be automatically respected in death?

[Christian]

This whole damn thread saddens me.

[Total Longo]

yeah but these things are bound to happen with a thread about Clough. His comments were bound to be raked up.

 

For the record i couln't care less about the man when he was alive, i feel nothing now he's dead. So nothing has changed as far as i am concerned.

[Stu Monty]

For those who held the opinion before he died, i see no reason why death should change that.

 

Have to say that forgivness is a hard thing to come by and shouldn't be given unreservedly. Would we all still call Mckensie a cunt if he apologised, I feel it's a good point.

[Agent Smith]

Clough's death hasn't affected me either way but some of the comments on here sadden me. Anything I type on here is what I would say to your face. I can't believe people would say some of these things to Nigel and his family in person.

 

The man is dead. What he said was wrong, he also apologised but nobody has to forgive him if they don't want to. But lets not do exactly what we blame Clough for doing, someone being bitter who is putting the boot in when people are still grieving.

[Nunavut Patrick]

So much hate in the world. Pity.

[Guest mark2905]

If clough hadn't died and this thread was called

what do people think of Brian Clough, I suspect

that some of the the people on here who have forgiven him

wouldn't have imo.

 

Still find it hard to believe that people can actually

be glad he's dead though, whether you believe his apology

or not I'd like to think we have more class than to insult

the dead.

[Paul]

Clough's death hasn't affected me either way but some of the comments on here sadden me. Anything I type on here is what I would say to your face. I can't believe people would say some of these things to Nigel and his family in person.

 

The man is dead. What he said was wrong, he also apologised but nobody has to forgive him if they don't want to. But lets not do exactly what we blame Clough for doing, someone being bitter who is putting the boot in when people are still grieving.

Agree with every word of that. To my mind, holding on to any sort of bitter or negative emotion is self-defeating; and some of the sentiments on here just demean the people who express them.

 

This really is the most unpleasant thread I've ever seen on here over the several years of the forum's existence. And it's got fuck all to do with being PC; it's just about the way I was brought up to believe we should treat each other.

[Bellflower]

I didn't know anyone who died at Hillsborough, and I don't think I personally know anyone who was related to the 96, the same as I didn't know any of the Heysel victims, but I do know they loved football the same as me, and in the case of the 96, LFC in particular. But I am sure the last thing they would want is for friends and acquaintances to fall out over what someone said or wrote, however foolishly or naively.

Brian Clough was a footballing genius, both as a player and a manager. His achievements may never be repeated, and if the Hillsborough and Heysel immortals were alive today, they would be mourning his passing, as football fans everywhere. Whatever the wrongs and rights of what he said or wrote, he will have to answer to a higher peer than us.

Let's draw a line under this one , and do what they would want, get back to supporting LIVERPOOL FC together.

Brian Clough RIP.

[Kopite]

As someone who stood on the Leppings Lane that day and lost a cousin I can tell you I will not shed a tear for that man.

 

He told a pack of lies that pandered to the many of the cretins and right-wing bigot's that live in this country to sell a few books.

 

Enjoy your 30 pieces of silver and I hope for your sake you are more convincing with the Almighty than your "apology" was in 4-4-2.

[Rushian]

I hope he rots in hell.

 

"They were drunk. They killed their own"

 

A timeline for those unacquainted with the facts:

 

April 1989 Hillsborough Disaster

 

January 1990 Justice Taylor Report exonerating Liverpool fans of any blame

 

1994 Clough's autobiography comes out with highly controvesial remarks blaming Liverpool fans for being ticketless and late

 

1994 Clough goes on media circuit and on prime time BBC TV when asked about his controversial remarks goes further and says "They were drunk. They killed their own"

 

Repeat those words time and again imagining yourself as a parent of one of the 96. He blamed your dead kid for killing himelf and others. Or indeed as a fan who was there that day. He blamed you for the deaths of the 96.

 

And these words didn't come out in the confused immediate aftermath of the disaster but five years later when many families had started just begun the healing process only to have the wounds ripped wide open again.

 

And why did he come out with the remarks? To sell a book. Shameful.

 

Those remarks proved a catalyst for some in the press to question the Taylor Report and once again go on the attack and tear into our fans for the events of that day. The odious Ian Woolridge and the Daily Mail being among the chief suspects in besmirching the reputation of all scousers again (something which they continue to this day) and quashing the fledgling attempts to get Justice.

 

September/October 2001 An "apology" is forced out of him after it's announced he's to start a monthly column in 4-4-2. Outraged members of the RAWK/RAOTL forums besiege the magazine with complaints to be met with "he's entitled to his opinion" by the editor.

 

It took a large amount of correspondence before even gettign tot he stage of educating the editor Matt Snow of the true facts of the day before even getting to Clough. Snow realised unless an apology was offered he couldn't morally continue with his column so he persuaded Pat Murphy the ghostwriter for Clough to persuade him and his family to persuade him to apologise (mainly it has to be said thanks to a truly outstanding letter from APB of the RAOTL).

 

Unfortunately the apology was an effort in smoke and mirrors. Rather than being contrite and entirely accepting blame he said "it was what was believed at the time".

 

This was five years after the disaster and well after the Taylor Report where Liverpool fans were completely exonerated of any blame. He cannot have been ignorant of those facts. He wasn't.

 

If anything the "apology" should be viewed solely as a victory in getting the editor of the "major football magazine" in this country to acquaint himself with the facts of what happened at Hillsborough as he seemed unaware of them.

 

Clough should have said "I'm sorry. I was wrong. I caused unbelievable hurt. It was my fault."

 

He should have written individual letters to each of the families of the 96. Instead he carried on writing his column.

 

I feel sorry for any family that has lost a family member. Nigel Clough was an exemplary professional for us. But Brian Clough himself? No I'd rather not indulge in the eulogies for the man.