"Dangerous" Dogs

[moof]

All those characteristics are bred into the breeds. Make new breeds.

Erm... no.

[Rico1304]

Hahaha,

every time I see a fella walking one of theses little things on a lead it just reminds me of John Inman going from counter to counter in Grace brothers.

I'm such a hypocrite, I saw a bloke walking a tiny little dog this morning and immediately thought 'cunt'.

[Rico1304]

Erm... no.

Just coincidence then? How lucky all those sheep dogs like herding shit.

[dickie mint]

I'm such a hypocrite, I saw a bloke walking a tiny little dog this morning and immediately thought 'cunt'.

 

Hahaha,some of them would look less of a cunt if they where walking down the road handcuffed to Julian Clary mate.

[VladimirIlyich]

I am not a dog owner but agree that it's almost always the owners which are the problem. Also people have to be sensible regarding a sensible breed and where and how they are going to care for it. The dangerous dogs act doesn't go far enough,but neither do the laws that govern the people in charge. A dog licence is a sensible start,as is the chip scheme. They both should be compulsory,but they cost money and we have politicians who couldn't give a shit about 95% of the human population let alone their pets.

[Jockey]

What about muzzles on all dogs? 

 

They are used as weapons - no doubt about that. If the police see one without a muzzle off it goes - big fuck off fine. Dog gets put down (on the basis that if the owner is that blatant the dog may well be a lost cause anyhow - although, I truly would hate this, ideally we have a kennel for all these dogs). 

 

This won't help in your own home. 

[VladimirIlyich]

What about muzzles on all dogs?

 

They are used as weapons - no doubt about that. If the police see one without a muzzle off it goes - big fuck off fine. Dog gets put down (on the basis that if the owner is that blatant the dog may well be a lost cause anyhow - although, I truly would hate this, ideally we have a kennel for all these dogs).

 

This won't help in your own home.

I've advocated the muzzles too,in this thread a while back. I think it's a sensible suggestion for outside the home,but the argument is generally 'why should the good owners be punished because of the bad?' A fair point but personally I'd prefer to err on the side of caution. Even as a dog lover I would prefer to prevent any probable attacks.

[Lee909]

How the hell you getting a muzzle on a Pomeranian

[moof]

Muzzles are fine, but they don't work for all dogs in all situations. With the correct training, and due care and attention, it can be a valuable behavioural tool, for sure.

 

But not for all dogs, and not all the time.

[Jockey]

I've advocated the muzzles too,in this thread a while back. I think it's a sensible suggestion for outside the home,but the argument is generally 'why should the good owners be punished because of the bad?' A fair point but personally I'd prefer to err on the side of caution. Even as a dog lover I would prefer to prevent any probable attacks.

 

I don't see how it is 'punishing' anyone though! All dogs have the potential to bite someone/another animal - one of my mates lurcher was bitten by some innocuous dog, left the poor fella bleeding! Just a playful fight that turned. 

 

The difference in walking a dog in somewhere like Walton and Woolton is quite stark! I hate walking my parents dog in Walton, on a constant edge! 

[Jockey]

How the hell you getting a muzzle on a Pomeranian

 

I'm just going to assume that is a piece of fruit and laugh!

 

Haha. 

[moof]

I don't see how it is 'punishing' anyone though! All dogs have the potential to bite someone/another animal - one of my mates lurcher was bitten by some innocuous dog, left the poor fella bleeding! Just a playful fight that turned.

 

The difference in walking a dog in somewhere like Walton and Woolton is quite stark! I hate walking my parents dog in Walton, on a constant edge!

I would suggest you are on edge, more likely due to the owner, rather than the dog. Which highlights the fact that it's a cunt problem, not a dog problem.

[Jockey]

I would suggest you are on edge, more likely due to the owner, rather than the dog. Which highlights the fact that it's a cunt problem, not a dog problem.

 

Oh fully agree. I am on edge, the dog doesn't notice! But she is a dog and thick as fuck. Cunts are the problem! No argument from me there, but the dogs are a manifestation of their cuntishness! 

 

It is sad, but they are used as weapons. 

[VladimirIlyich]

Oh fully agree. I am on edge, the dog doesn't notice! But she is a dog and thick as fuck. Cunts are the problem! No argument from me there, but the dogs are a manifestation of their cuntishness!

 

It is sad, but they are used as weapons.

Weapons used by weapons.

[Jockey]

Weapons used by weapons.

 

In a nutshell! 

[memyselfandpie]

The mention of muzzles is a funny one because there are a hell of a lot of dog owners out there that don't even know how to use one of those things properly! The common theme in a lot of my posts is that people don't know enough about dogs despite the 15,000 years or so of them living with us. It's embarrassing. If we start with education that would help a lot.

[Jairzinho]

It would be far easier to just put down a few hundred thousand humans.

[moof]

It would be far easier to just put down a few hundred thousand humans.

And infinitely more preferable.

[G Richards]

How would you define a 'bad' dog owner? I've highlighted this part because it's one of the most commonly seen mistakes that most dog owners make. Domestic dogs, don't naturally form packs. There have been plenty of studies over the years but one of the most well-known is the one that studied dog behaviour based around rubbish dumps in Italy. Dogs tend to roam about on their own and only come together briefly before going off alone again.

Dog's are social animals but to say they are pack animals isn't quite true. Much of the misconception about the 'pack' hierarchy debate came from the work of one man in the late 60's, David Mech. He studied the behaviour of captive Wolves and the whole hierarchical structure was born, which in turn made its way into the domestic dog world. The problem was that captive Wolves don't behave at all like wild Wolves, and the hyper-aggressive 'pack' ethos on display was not in keeping with the truth of the matter. David Mech went on to renounce his own work many years later and even wanted the book he wrote on the matter removed from sale due to misinformation. Still, even now, the 'pack' ethos exists despite it being known for a few decades to be inaccurate. People like Caesar Milan further propagated this erroneous thinking and set the dog-world backwards by about twenty years. Wolves are now known to be families and not packs. Now, if we apply that to the domestic dog world, we get a much more harmonious atmosphere with fewer behaviour problems, because things like 'asserting your dominance' have been shown to be more harmful and lead to things such as defensive aggression, possessiveness etc.

 

 

 

 

:D  We've been over this one before, so I won't go into it too much again, but one thing you would have taken away from that program with Professor Green that may have been of use is the knowledge that one of the most frequent biters of people is the...Dachshund. (It was actually stated on the program to be the most frequent biter of people. I know this has been the case in the past but I am not sure about the most recent statistics on that one so I can't confirm).

Repped for good knowledge. I wasn't aware of the studies. For the avoidance of confusion I'm happy to refine the language I used and say dogs are social animals and not pack animals.

 

As for bad owners, there's a large scale, just as there's a large scale for bad drivers, and so on.

 

At the least it is an owner who is not aware of the social signal their dog is giving. Dogs are communicating all the time, and it's obvious when a dog is excited, agitated, aggressive, and so on. A bad owner is unaware of the mental state of their dog, and/or is not in control of the dog enough to bring it to a state of calm. An agitated dog is more dangerous. Obviously there are some really bad dog owners who want the dog to be agitated and ramped up to get it into attack mode. Such people have their dogs as some sort of status symbol, or tough guy symbol. But leaving that subculture aside, there are too many well meaning owners who are neither in control of their animal, or aware of its mental state at various times.

 

Beyond that, I fully agree with socializing the dog with the family and not locking it away and so on.

[G Richards]

There's no point in debating this with dog people, they make it very clear that their right to own a potentially dangerous dog means more to them than the safety of children up & down the country & that's all there is to it really.

 

Bringing knives, horses & cows into it is whataboutery of the highest level, surely each problem should be addressed on its own merits.

What about cars? How many people each year are killed by cars? Does it mean more to the owner of a potentially dangerous car to keep it and disregard the safety of chipdren up and down the country?

 

Edit: saw your post a little later about cars. Fair enough!

[PestiRed]

Idiot parents who panic & whip up their children at the sight of an incredibly friendly small dog on a lead annoy the hell out of me. Teaching your kids to be afraid of dogs is pretty much child abuse.

 

I love it when a parent asks me if their kid can stroke the dog

[G Richards]

I havent read earlier in the thread for a while, so perhaps this ground has been covered, but there's a philosophical discussion in this somewhere, and it's to do with how we choose to live as humans. How much danger is acceptable? If the optimal goal is to minimize danger as much as possible then lots of hobbies, pastimes, sports, activities and pleasurable things - including dog ownership, would be done away with.

 

If one were so inclined, you can see no end of danger everywhere you look. It's wide of the mark, at least to my mind, to start banning more and more things as there's no end to that, and it doesn't really address the underlying issue, and in terms of the dog debate, when things go wrong the main problem is a lack of responsible behaviour on the part of the owner.

[Lee909]

Idiot parents who panic & whip up their children at the sight of an incredibly friendly small dog on a lead annoy the hell out of me. Teaching your kids to be afraid of dogs is pretty much child abuse.

 

I love it when a parent asks me if their kid can stroke the dog

Or worse the people that dont stop their kids running up and towering over your dog or grabbing at them without adking the owner. And then the parents wonder why the dog reacts and starts barking or growling

[Rico1304]

I havent read earlier in the thread for a while, so perhaps this ground has been covered, but there's a philosophical discussion in this somewhere, and it's to do with how we choose to live as humans. How much danger is acceptable? If the optimal goal is to minimize danger as much as possible then lots of hobbies, pastimes, sports, activities and pleasurable things - including dog ownership, would be done away with.

 

If one were so inclined, you can see no end of danger everywhere you look. It's wide of the mark, at least to my mind, to start banning more and more things as there's no end to that, and it doesn't really address the underlying issue, and in terms of the dog debate, when things go wrong the main problem is a lack of responsible behaviour on the part of the owner.

Dangerous sports and pastimes are 'opt-in'. A child having its face eaten is the opposite.

 

We've got thousands of people working in child protection in this country so expecting responsible animal ownership is a stretch.

 

Even with expert training and 'proper' ownership there's going to be attacks. I'm still to see any valid reason why small dogs are a problem. They seem to offer everything a larger dog does.

[G Richards]

What would you argue for? All large breeds phased out? If so, where would you draw the line? Genuinely interested to hear what you think the solution is.