Chris Foy

[Major Tom]

Let's just say IMO the evidence is There & pretty much piled up by now - You just have to look for it.

 

 

Why is no-one looking for it, do you think? An investigative journo would be all over any sniff of corruption in football, surely.

[The Guest]

Major Tom? Think you & others should have a look at this person whose First article was posted here a bit earlier in the thread? He's done another one & Had a look at some of the stat's For us Here; Corruption and Influence Peddling in the English Game - The Dim in Beirut

 

What he's found is in some ways as alarming as it is predictable - And again? I'll say with that, what he said earlier in his first post re' all this, some of what I've read on here & an extensive knowledge not just of the Aforementioned Tom Bower book but a couple by David Conn asking questions along the right lines re' vested interests in the Premier League re' it's formation/makeup & member Clubs as well as another book all about the PL from it's formation by Chris Horrie I think? Well with that little lot? Let's just say IMO the evidence is There & pretty much piled up by now - You just have to look for it.

 

Oh & to those crowing re' English impartiality & laughing that that sort of thing only happens in Italy etc? Where do you think They learned it from? Calciopoli only Started well into the time when He was at Old Trafford over here - don't you think they learned it from Somewhere? Just a thought is all. Anyway have a read & see what you think - I'll leave you all to draw your own conclusions - Me? I took my head out the sand long ago. But then I? Am not a coward with a vested/economic interest in certain managers/teams doing well in this country am I? And That in a nutshell is what is wrong here - Anyway like I said? The evidence is there - have a look & see what you think; It might open a few eyes to say the least .....

 

[Redshadow]

Major Tom? Think you & others should have a look at this person whose First article was posted here a bit earlier in the thread? He's done another one & Had a look at some of the stat's For us Here; Corruption and Influence Peddling in the English Game - The Dim in Beirut

 

What he's found is in some ways as alarming as it is predictable - And again? I'll say with that, what he said earlier in his first post re' all this, some of what I've read on here & an extensive knowledge not just of the Aforementioned Tom Bower book but a couple by David Conn asking questions along the right lines re' vested interests in the Premier League re' it's formation/makeup & member Clubs as well as another book all about the PL from it's formation by Chris Horrie I think? Well with that little lot? Let's just say IMO the evidence is There & pretty much piled up by now - You just have to look for it.

 

Oh & to those crowing re' English impartiality & laughing that that sort of thing only happens in Italy etc? Where do you think They learned it from? Calciopoli only Started well into the time when He was at Old Trafford over here - don't you think they learned it from Somewhere? Just a thought is all. Anyway have a read & see what you think - I'll leave you all to draw your own conclusions - Me? I took my head out the sand long ago. But then I? Am not a coward with a vested/economic interest in certain managers/teams doing well in this country am I? And That in a nutshell is what is wrong here - Anyway like I said? The evidence is there - have a look & see what you think; It might open a few eyes to say the least ....

 

NB Major Tom? Someone Is Looking now - that link I posted? That person looks like they've started a pretty thorough investigation into it - as to Why no-one else is looking (or screening the findings If someone's done the work)? Simple enough I think channels like newspapers & certain cowards masquerading as PL Managers? Are Afraid of him & them putting them 'out of favour' as it were at OT & so basically Don't want to upset them - pretty much like a media version of what Jeff Winter is supposed to have said goes on with Referees - they All want to screen From there & film games/interviews with them as he's built up their (false) legend to such an extent? That it commands a lot of power & success for those in the media favoured at OT & thus they Don't want to "rock the boat" as it were by upsetting either United, their bosses Or those who benefit from them doing well; Basically they're scared of him in the English Media I think. A lot.....

 

NBB 'Tis Reprinted withOut the bold now The Guest - you can stop gibbering behind the sofa & come out of whatever fit that sent you off into LoL

[Major Tom]

Basically they're scared of him in the English Media I think. A lot.....

 

Bullshit. Some football journos may be, but not the English media as a whole.

 

If an investigative journalist breaks a story with Utd being behind corruption in football, that is massive. They won't be put off by some 70 year old drunk banning them from a press conference or two. It would make their career and that is a fucking fact. If there's a genuine whiff of corruption, the press - and I don't mean the football press - will be all over it.

[The Golden Eel]

That's an interesting article. Be interesting to see what happens with Webb on Sunday.

[Gym Beglin]

Ferguson is always complaining about referees.

 

No, not English referees he doesn't. In fact quite often, usually following a convincing win, he comes out and praises the referees.

 

Champions League refs, yes, he does tend to call them German so and so's, or fucking useless, usually following a draw or defeat.

[Gym Beglin]

How can anyone, with a straight face, claim that Ferguson and English football is clean?

 

It's not along ago we were all watching the Panorama programme on agents, and the people involved in that, notably Ferguson's son as well, and they were just scratching the surface of the skullduggery in the English game.

 

Where there is money, there is power. And where there is power, there is always an abuse of that power. Even Nelson Mandela probably takes a few hotel towels.

 

As soon as the Premier League and Champions League money rolled in, at about the exact same time that United rose to power in 1992/93/94, then they were at the head table with Sky, with the media, and with the FA. A lot of people made a lot of money in the next few years, and that sort of closed circle would be very protective of their own. Don't get me wrong, United are no more immoral than anyone else, it could have been us at the head table if we kept on winning the league in that era, but we didn't.

 

But there is very obviously an imbalance, the decisions that United get are stuff of folklore, the late Scholes tackles, the extra time, it's all a big fucking joke now because somewhere along the line we just gave up trying to point out that things didn't seem entirely fair.

[Gym Beglin]

Sorry to spam for 10 mins, but ...

 

On a different point, is there not a massive conflict of interest for Howard Webb to be officiating our games following the damage we just did to South Yorkshite Police?

[The Guest]

Major Tom? Think you & others should have a look at this person whose First article was posted here a bit earlier in the thread? He's done another one & Had a look at some of the stat's For us Here; Corruption and Influence Peddling in the English Game - The Dim in Beirut

 

What he's found is in some ways as alarming as it is predictable - And again? I'll say with that, what he said earlier in his first post re' all this, some of what I've read on here & an extensive knowledge not just of the Aforementioned Tom Bower book but a couple by David Conn asking questions along the right lines re' vested interests in the Premier League re' it's formation/makeup & member Clubs as well as another book all about the PL from it's formation by Chris Horrie I think? Well with that little lot? Let's just say IMO the evidence is There & pretty much piled up by now - You just have to look for it.

 

Oh & to those crowing re' English impartiality & laughing that that sort of thing only happens in Italy etc? Where do you think They learned it from? Calciopoli only Started well into the time when He was at Old Trafford over here - don't you think they learned it from Somewhere? Just a thought is all. Anyway have a read & see what you think - I'll leave you all to draw your own conclusions - Me? I took my head out the sand long ago. But then I? Am not a coward with a vested/economic interest in certain managers/teams doing well in this country am I? And That in a nutshell is what is wrong here - Anyway like I said? The evidence is there - have a look & see what you think; It might open a few eyes to say the least ....

 

NB Major Tom? Someone Is Looking now - that link I posted? That person looks like they've started a pretty thorough investigation into it - as to Why no-one else is looking (or screening the findings If someone's done the work)? Simple enough I think channels like newspapers & certain cowards masquerading as PL Managers? Are Afraid of him & them putting them 'out of favour' as it were at OT & so basically Don't want to upset them - pretty much like a media version of what Jeff Winter is supposed to have said goes on with Referees - they All want to screen From there & film games/interviews with them as he's built up their (false) legend to such an extent? That it commands a lot of power & success for those in the media favoured at OT & thus they Don't want to "rock the boat" as it were by upsetting either United, their bosses Or those who benefit from them doing well; Basically they're scared of him in the English Media I think. A lot.....

 

NBB 'Tis Reprinted withOut the bold now The Guest - you can stop gibbering behind the sofa & come out of whatever fit that sent you off into LoL

 

[Trumo]

Sorry to spam for 10 mins, but ...

 

On a different point, is there not a massive conflict of interest for Howard Webb to be officiating our games following the damage we just did to South Yorkshite Police?

 

I think the point was made before the release of the Panel's findings, and certainly by at least one poster after that report was published. It would be foolish of the PGMO to allocate Webb to a Liverpool game given what the rest of the country has learned in the past month, as the potential conflict of interest is undeniable despite any claims of impartiality. That does lead me to make a couple of others points.

 

Firstly, I'm not sure if Webb was working for SYP around that time, although he may know or have worked with several of the officers that have been implicated in the report. Whether he considers it a personal affront to be lumped in with SYP in that manner I've no idea.

 

Secondly, it wasn't us that did the damage to SYP. They brought all of that on themselves. We were merely cogs in a bigger machine designed to set the record straight.

[milerz]

Interestingly the Guardian are running a poll on does fergie have to much media influence, with reference to this article; Fergie: the Godfather of Manipulation | The Secret Footballer

[Duncan Clench]

Be interesting to see what happens with Webb on Sunday.

 

I simply can't imagine what will happen. But that was (will be) a definite penalty and sending off.

[TheHowieLama]

Please, please stop citing examples of what has actually transpired and pretending they are facts, much less evidence. Please.

[magicrat]

Firstly I admit I haven’t read the whole thread in detail so apologies if some points have been previously made but the general theme of Ferguson having undue influence with the FA is raised almost daily in some context or other. I think the “evidence” can be paraphrased as “ Referees that he sees as unfavourable to Utd get demoted or are never seen at OT again “. Foy being the latest case in point.

Like many others here I detest Utd , although I didn’t when I was a kid. Whether that’s a function of our demise and their success in the premiership era or as result of the way Utd is run and the antics of Ferguson et al I ‘m not sure but that’s another debate. My antipathy towards them clouds impartial judgement ; I find myself wanting the allegations to be true because it would provide some comfort for the years of watching them win title after title whilst we go backwards. That’s not a great basis for an objective look at this but leaving aside the details of various refereeing decisions being “punished “ by Ferguson in one way or another for a moment I keep asking myself how could such a systematic manipulation of the FA be achieved and over such a time span. Are the FA so riddled with sycophants and are the Referees so systematically indoctrinated to accept such a status quo ? Are all serious journalists so afraid of investigating this ? Surely they can’t all be so scared to have been able to keep this under wraps for so long. If money is involved then the numbers of people being bunged must be quite large . I can’t see how it’s plausible for bribery on such a scale to stay a secret.

Until some plausible mechanism is un-earthed as to how the system is manipulated then to me it’s a bit like the intelligent design argument .” Life is so intricate and wonderful it must have been made by God. “ I hope the answer to both is the same .. We haven’t discovered exactly how it’s done yet but we will.

[Major Tom]

Firstly I admit I haven’t read the whole thread in detail so apologies if some points have been previously made but the general theme of Ferguson having undue influence with the FA is raised almost daily in some context or other. I think the “evidence” can be paraphrased as “ Referees that he sees as unfavourable to Utd get demoted or are never seen at OT again “. Foy being the latest case in point.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

Like many others here I detest Utd , although I didn’t when I was a kid. Whether that’s a function of our demise and their success in the premiership era or as result of the way Utd is run and the antics of Ferguson et al I ‘m not sure but that’s another debate. My antipathy towards them clouds impartial judgement ; I find myself wanting the allegations to be true because it would provide some comfort for the years of watching them win title after title whilst we go backwards. That’s not a great basis for an objective look at this but leaving aside the details of various refereeing decisions being “punished “ by Ferguson in one way or another for a moment I keep asking myself how could such a systematic manipulation of the FA be achieved and over such a time span. Are the FA so riddled with sycophants and are the Referees so systematically indoctrinated to accept such a status quo ? Are all serious journalists so afraid of investigating this ? Surely they can’t all be so scared to have been able to keep this under wraps for so long. If money is involved then the numbers of people being bunged must be quite large . I can’t see how it’s plausible for bribery on such a scale to stay a secret.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

Until some plausible mechanism is un-earthed as to how the system is manipulated then to me it’s a bit like the intelligent design argument .” Life is so intricate and wonderful it must have been made by God. “ I hope the answer to both is the same .. We haven’t discovered exactly how it’s done yet but we will.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

 

Super stuff.

 

Kind of like what I think, only erudite and eloquent.

[No2]

That's a theory for my first question. What about my second? Why is no-one else at the 'have' table complaining like a banshee? Utd have got everything at their expense. They wouldn't keep quiet.

 

Only last week Mancini lashed into Paul Lambert saying that teams and managers behave differently against them than they do against Utd. He was implying, correctly imo that 13 or 14 clubs in this are happy to take it up the bum from Sir Alex and tell all their mates how Sir Alex bum fucked them. Surprise surprise Mancini was mocked in the media, told not to dare indulge in mind games with the great Sir Alex (leaving aside his side are champions and Utd imploded with the line insight), ridiculed as a stupid foreigner. Personally I think Mancini timing was a bit off but his point still stands.

 

Another interesting statistic is Paul Scholes's disciplinary record, I don't have the figures to hand but from memory his figures in Europe are proportionate to what they should be, ie he has the worst disciplinary record in CL history, you would think on balance his PL record should be something similar but low and behold its not. I will spend some time at this later and dig up figures for Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard and compare and contrast them between PL and CL, I'd be willing to bet that the latter 2 have similar percentages in each competition and the ginger prick has a free hand to kick to the shit out of who ever Mr Ferguson tells him too.

[TheHowieLama]

And in some ridiculous custom - semi screaming font.

[Major Tom]

And in some ridiculous custom - semi screaming font.

 

That maybe true, but I'm going to hide behind him while I'm being picked on by you lot.

[TheHowieLama]

That maybe true, but I'm going to hide behind him while I'm being picked on by you lot.

 

Tom - you can make it all go away by admitting Utd get preferential treatment across the board in all matters and that Ferguson has been able to influence both on and off field decisions and ref assignments.

[Major Tom]

Tom - you can make it all go away by admitting Utd get preferential treatment across the board in all matters and that Ferguson has been able to influence both on and off field decisions and ref assignments.

 

Done.

 

Why didn't someone just say that earlier?

[Code]

Interestingly the Guardian are running a poll on does fergie have to much media influence, with reference to this article; Fergie: the Godfather of Manipulation | The Secret Footballer

 

Fergie: the Godfather of Manipulation

 

Pre-match Press conferences with managers, for the journalist, can range from enlightening to entertaining to exasperating, from hilarious to hackneyed to humdrum. An article has to be written, whatever the banal musings of the football figurehead, and column inches have to be filled. Enlightening, entertaining and hilarious “pressers” are always preferred by the scribe.

 

Post-match pressers are different. A match that has just finished can be discussed, the controversy digested and the referee slated. All on the spur of the moment – when tempers are raging, emotions boiling and the facts unclear. “Never let the facts get in the way of a good story” is an age-old journo’s maxim which, at times, managers love to indulge in, incessantly.

 

But forget the cauldron of the post-match PCs. They are often one of a kind, unique, knee-jerk stuff. Yet the pre-match preambles are usually carefully planned, carried out strictly to the order of the club PR department and, ultimately, controlled by the manager. And if that manager is Sir Alex Ferguson, the boss of bosses, be afraid. Be very afraid.

 

Ferguson is also one of a kind, unique. Mr Man Utd. And woe betide any hapless hack who should ask a question that, though totally relevant, is deemed to be worthless by the Old Trafford legend. Fergie is his name, intimidation is his game. And journo bans from Carrington, the Manchester United training complex, have been plentiful over the years.

 

Only in August, my colleagues Mark Ogden, of the “Daily Telegraph”, and Paul Hetherington, of the “Daily Star Sunday”, were barred from attending United’s regular Friday pressers because they dared to report that Rio Ferdinand would miss the seasonal opener against Everton due to a groin injury.

 

That Ogden and Hetherington were spot on – Ferdinand missed the 1-0 defeat at Goodison Park – held no value to Ferguson. As Alan Sugar, another notoriously cantankerous knight of the realm, might have uttered: “You’re fired.” And so the Telegraph and Star Sunday were denied access to Fergie’s Friday briefings … for getting it right!

 

In my experience, I concur with another fellow journo, who once remarked that the weekly Carrington ordeals are little more than “tense, joyless affairs”. You would have to strike a delicate balance: suck up to the Great Man, with a tender line in interrogation, or run the risk of him walking out … and incurring the wrath of the other scribes who needed to fill a “double-page spread” with his infinite wisdom but were unable to because of his sudden departure. And it was your fault.

 

And yet, on other isolated encounters with Fergie, I have have found him affable, revealing and at ease with the normally despised Fourth Estate. On United’s pre-season tours, often to the Far East, he will always sit down on one pre-designated day in a five-star hotel suite to chat about anything and everything. And if he has something of importance to get off his chest, he needs no prompting.

 

It is as though, away from the suffocating confines of the domestic Premier League, he can relax. Well, just a bit. For an invited audience of, say, eight to ten daily newspaper journos – and he would accommodate the Sunday papers and broadcast media separately – he will wax lyrical for an hour or more. And provide excellent copy that could run to a 2,000-word piece, which our desk chiefs would be ecstatic with. The mega-cost of the trip, immediately, will have become worth it.

 

Beguiling stuff and, when talking to him, it’s almost like chatting with your dad or grandad. Plenty of reminiscing but with an abundance of in-yer-face and up-to-date topics, too. Fergie knows how to “guide” the media, especially of the passive variety. He is the Godfather of Manipulation and clearly gets a kick out of it, even at his veteran age. Fair play to him.

 

But I do recall a one-on-one meeting with him, at a major championship finals abroad for which he was a television pundit. In the “Green Room”, Fergie wanted the horse racing piped through from back home and, of course, he got his wish. Yes, I like a little flutter, too, and what ensued was a marvellously amicable conversation about the “Sport of Kings”. Even if, privately, I was cacking myself in case I made the wrong comment, however innocent.

 

This was Fergie Unplugged. Away from the domestic public scrutiny, the goldfish-bowl glare, the seven-year refusal to talk to the BBC, all that bollox. And before he had to go into the TV studio to offer his opinions to the nation – with, if I remember correctly, Terry Venables and others – he generously told me to back his latest prize horse, which was running for the first time shortly. Of course, I forgot. And, of course, it won!

 

Oh well. You live and learn …

 

Other managers, also doyens of their profession, do not have such an edge as “hairdryrer” Fergie. Arsene Wenger’s pre-match pressers are usually civilised functions at Arsenal’s London Colney training ground in Hertfordshire, with the Sky Sports “attack dogs” and agency boys given the first airing. And then, if there’s any scraps left over, the daily and Sunday paper guys get a go with the urbane Frenchman on their own. He’s a lovely man, who will answer almost any query, however loaded.

 

Harry Redknapp, when at Tottenham, always offered a gag a minute at the club’s former Chigwell base in Essex. Sometimes, you just didn’t know whether he was being serious or talking clap-trap. But who cared? It always made for a great yarn. And yet, when his first XI selection was unveiled on the Saturday afterwards, you did wonder: “Er, Harry. Were you not being rather convenient with the truth?”

 

And the “Special One”? Jose Mourinho. I would not claim to know him but his pressers when the Chelsea manager were always enlightening, entertaining and often hilarious. As I mentioned earlier, just what a journo craves. I cannot recall, either, that he personally banned any reporter from attending, though the Chelsea “Thought Police” at the time – a particularly rabid bunch –might have ruled otherwise.

 

I also remember that, after he had moved on to Inter Milan, I attended an Internazionale match on a lovely Mediterranean isle, when his side had put in a rather less than impressive Champions League performance. And yet he spoke for more than an hour afterwards, in Portuguese, Spanish, Italian and English, to explain his team’s shortcomings.

 

Not great for the journo trying to hit their deadline. But let’s face it, if Mourinho is talking, you can’t ignore him and get on with your copy because he just might say something that will “Hold The Back Page”. And if you miss it, there would be hell to pay. But would Fergie have done that on the back of such crap display? No way.

 

Managers do not control the media, however much they might think they do. A journo will always break ranks, through “contacts”, “leaks” and for whatever reason, and will endure his or her petty ban from the club proceedings and return to the fold, later, untarnished. Perhaps with their reputation even enhanced for bucking the trend.

 

Freedom of the Press will remain undimmed because it, football and the Premier League demands the mutual oxygen of publicity. And no one can deny that.

 

Perhaps not even Fergie …

[Gym Beglin]

And in some ridiculous custom - semi screaming font.

 

It's Calibri font, you fucking mouth-breather.

I bet you're all about the Franklin Gothic Demi.

 

I'm well into Teltype recently, it's got a fucking lovely feel.

[Gym Beglin]

Fergie: the Godfather of Manipulation

 

…

 

I'm not sure why the Guardian felt the need to run a poll on too much media manipulation based on this?

He comes off very well from my reading. Well, put it another way, he comes off very well for a select group of about 25 journalists out of the 500 worldwide covering footballing.

[TheHowieLama]

It's Calibri font, you fucking mouth-breather.

I bet you're all about the Franklin Gothic Demi.

 

I'm well into Teltype recently, it's got a fucking lovely feel.

 

I like to do the rounds in Comic Sans

 

is teltype the one with the smudgies in it

 

check moorstation.org

Edited October 3, 2012 by TheHowieLama

[The Guest]

This just appeared on facebook.

 

Just got this sent to me.

Some referee facts: 1. Mike Dean, referee, when Blackburn beat Manchester United 3-2 and hasn't refereed a Manchester United game since. 2. Mike Dean - referee, in 2010, after Manchester United's defeat to Chelsea, was demoted to the Championship. 3. Alan Wiley, called "fat and unfit" by Alex after Manchester United's draw with Sunderland," agreed to retire" that season, he was also the ref on OT when the mancs lost 1-4 to Liverpool. 4. Mark Clattenburg refereed Manchester United's 6-1 defeat to Manchester City, hasn't refereed a single Manchester United game after that Manchester derby. (has acted as 4th official in 3) 5. Martin Atkinson -Involved in Manchester United's defeat to Chelsea, criticized by Alex, ha...sn't refereed Manchester United game since. 6. Ex referee Jeff Winter openly stating that he hadn't been given a Manchester United game for 2 years after sending Roy Keane off. 7. Howard Webb has been Manchester United's most used referee since the defeat to Manchester City

. 8. More than 18% of the penalties Webb has awarded in his 8 year career have been to Manchester United. 9. Manchester United's CEO is on the board of The FA. 10. Alex Ferguson not happy with Chris Foy after their 3-2 defeat to spurs, Foy demoted to a League Two game between Accrington Stanley and Rochdale this weekend. something he hasn't done since the 2001-02 season. Make of that what you want.