Clearing Luis's name: time for the club and the fans to speak up

[Guest TK-421]

I don't know it. Don't dare presume to speak for me.

 

My apologies. Obviously I do not speak for everyone here and it was more a turn of phrase.

[Iceman]

We can't win this particular battle head-on, and throwing in more troops and resources at this point will not change that.

 

We need to have a strategy to disarm our enemy. To paraphrase a hardcore bastard, "Always fight your enemy at a time of your choosing, not when they choose."

 

We need to get some pro LFC stories being written. Tom knows how the game works (Warner not Major), and needs to pull his finger out and splash some dirty cash.

 

An enormous anti-racism banner flowing over the Kop at every home game might be a good look.

 

 

We just have to get these fuckers off our case and get back to our football. They will happily destroy us if they can. This is war but it's a dirty war so we have to fight smart and stop walking head on into withering machine gun fire.

[xerxes]

For the love of god, if you cant get this bit right, everyone should consider the other shit you chat.

 

We were forbidden by the FA to comment on the case. And dont give it 'briefings are commenting on it' because you know full well that falls under the FA's directive.

 

Statistically, at some point, you will make an informed contribution. Sadly this is not one of them.

 

This is because you just don't understand - so I forgive you your invective.

 

We did not brief journalists pre verdict, and pre judgement of our case.There is nothing stopping us doing that. It is in fact best practise. It then ensures that that when the news breaks, your story is out there, and understood. You further ensure that personalised press releases hit all the key sports writers are pre-prepared, win or lose, so that a coherent , consistent, and informed story is available as the presses roll and the news bulletins break.

 

On your second point you say that we were forbidden to comment on the case - but we did anyway, and looked foolish as a result.If there is something to say, say it.If there isn't, don't

 

In fact we agreed to be bound by the decision of the Tribunal, that is not being forbidden. Absolutely nothing was, or has, been done to shape opinion.That is what a media department is there for. It was left to Tony Evans to do the club's job.

 

I hope that helps.

[Jonas]

Exellent tread, just about put into written system what most fans seems to be feeling and thinking.

It looks to me its a general worry that British media wont do do us any favours bringing LFCs points to the public. An option not mentioned yet in this tread and propably underestimated is what you could expect from the foreign media. I just bet a few mediahouses on the continent would love to have a go at the FA and their mideavel idea of justice. Also, some of the supportersclubs branches overseas have a few sport journalists within their ranks.

Keep in mind that this is a really hot topic all over, and the FA/Manc camp is not so massive abroad.

I hope your post gets out in the paperstands, it surely deserves to!

[ngogswilly]

We can't win this particular battle head-on, and throwing in more troops and resources at this point will not change that.

 

We need to have a strategy to disarm our enemy. To paraphrase a hardcore bastard, "Always fight your enemy at a time of your choosing, not when they choose."

 

We need to get some pro LFC stories being written. Tom knows how the game works (Warner not Major), and needs to pull his finger out and splash some dirty cash.

 

An enormous anti-racism banner flowing over the Kop at every home game might be a good look.

 

 

We just have to get these fuckers off our case and get back to our football. They will happily destroy us if they can. This is war but it's a dirty war so we have to fight smart and stop walking head on into withering machine gun fire.

 

Good post. Like you say we need a strategy other than blinding walking head on into every clusterfuck imaginable.

 

At the very least for the future when the next opportunity arises for the media to all guns blazing on us.

[Jamie-H]

I agree with Anubis that the taboo of discussing racism is counter-productive and self defeating and we are right to challenge guilt by innuendo.

 

I disagree with Major Tom that things cannot get worse. The Cup game coincides with the Terry trial. Racism will be on the front pages again. Pro Saurez chants and anti-Evra chantsmay be reported as pro racist. The chances of individual spectator verbal or physical misbehaviour are very high ( if people can get excited about an Oldham player in a cup stroll.........).The chances of an on field bust up are also very high if Evra plays – and it won’t be the Man U players who are blamed.

 

I cannot remember an English club game with more combustible ingredients – ever.

 

Lets just take a step back and look outside the bubble. Its an FA cup 4th round football match between the two biggest names in English football. End of.

 

I think fans and press need to let the game happen and pass without incident and move on rather than letting this become a subject of armageddon.

 

A kick out Racism mosiac will say more than a 1000 words on the Kop that day.

[tea]

Singing a song from the kop about equality, such as 'Imagine' (or whatever) in addition to the Luis song would make our stance pretty clear.

 

As far as the media are concerned, we've been there before with the scum, and hit them where it hurts. The same thing could be applied to the rest of them, including avoiding their websites, which give them a fortune through adverts/hits.

 

As for the FA, which caused it all, signing a petition such as this (or one similar) may help, especially if its targeted to various other club forums at the right time:-

 

NO Confidence Vote in The FA/FL and PL. Fans Ask For Proper Government Regulation - e-petitions.

 

A few banners such as

FANIMAL FARM:- All players are equal, but some players are more equal than others'

or:-

'The pursuit of the unbeatable by the unspeakable'

 

Just a few ideas:idea:

[Neil G]

Some of these young cats may not know what legend walks among them in the form of Neil G. Awesome stuff, as ever.

 

 

Aw shucks Sec, you're making me blush.

 

As TLW's resident journo, what's your take on this? Do you reckon it's possible to turn Liverpool FC's case into good copy that'll both sell papers and make people question the FA's verdict? That's what this all hangs on. It'd be a tough job for sure, but I'm convinced it's worth a shot.

[Neil G]

Good to see you back , Neil!

 

I wholeheartedly disagree. In my view we should be entering a period of introspection as a club and fan base instead of, essentially, lashing out. How did it come to this? How can we stop it from happening again? That's what we should be asking ourselves. The time for blaming everyone else except us has long passed.

 

Fsg are not going to fight this. The public appetite for it is not there and it would be commercial suicide. People need to accept that and move on. If not, things will get worse and not better.

 

 

It's good to be back TK. Glad you haven't abandoned your post.

 

We can do the internal post-mortem at the same time as taking the fight to the FA and the media, they're not mutually exclusive. I've no doubt the club started this process when the verdict came out at the latest, more than likely some time before then.

 

FSG don't look at the moment as though they're going to fight this, and that's really poor leadership in my eyes. If they'd accepted the Commission’s report, instructed Luis to apologise explicitly to Evra and agreed to co-operate fully with the FA (in other words a total capitulation) then drawing a line under the affair would at least have made some kind of strategic sense. But to give such full and vocal support to Luis and to come out with such fighting talk in their two statements, only then to not follow it through and stay silent while we continue to get battered from all sides, is the worst of all worlds. That's why FSG need pressure from the fans to take it further, because at the moment it looks to me as though they simply don't get it.

 

This isn't going to disappear by itself. We're talking allegations of racism here, that shit sticks unless you wipe it off. If we don't fight tooth and nail to show people why we supported Luis so strongly, our reputation will continue to be battered with every single incident that could possibly be linked to race in any way. If you really want to see commercial suicide, try that on for size – even if the stories are all bullshit, sponsors and partners will eventually get fed up of having their name linked to such rumours and "with a heavy heart" sever their links with us even though we've done fuck all wrong.

 

There's no middle ground on this, we either cave in or fight. If we do neither then things will continue as they are and will still have the potential to get worse. If we do speak out then maybe things will get worse before they get better, but this is a boil that has to be lanced.

[xerxes]

It's good to be back TK. Glad you haven't abandoned your post etc

 

A really good post in full Neil.

 

I wholly agree that we currently have the worst of both worlds because we talked a good game, but seemingly didnt mean it.

 

I also agree that the potential for this to cause us further damage directly through lost commercial/sponsorship opportunities, and indirectly through guilt by association in the corridors of powers is considerable.

 

No-one, least of all me, is suggesting this is easy, but this is the first big test for FSG.

 

What baffles me is that when they took over the argument was that although they knew nothing about football they were world leaders in media/Pr (Tom Werner is). Why has so little of that expertise been evident?

[Neil G]

I think that your response to brucespanner was harsh.

 

The club has been guilty of looking inwards, not outwards and has paid, and is continuing to pay, the price.

 

This situation is not easy and requires care and skill in resolving. That does not mean that we should not keep on trying.

 

If certain "action" makes things worse, it is pointless. Advocating taking counter-productive action, and then being surprised at the result, is not smart.

 

Kenny's initative with the shirts and the fans response has resulted, from an inadequate response from the club from whom leadership is required. we have stepped into the breach. To be fair the response to Fri night from the club was prompt, but there is still much work to do.

 

This is about leadership, and with two incendiary games coming up against the Mancs, the stakes could not be higher.

 

 

Hahahaha! Absolutely priceless. How on earth was my reply to him harsh? I thought it was pretty mild and restrained considering what he said about me in the post I was replying to. Almost FA-like criticism of a person defending themselves by you there.

 

I agree with you that the club has handled this poorly, I don't think anyone would dispute that now. But when it comes to what the club should do next, I notice you're very long on saying it has take control and do things properly, but very short on suggestions of what these things might actually be. At the moment I have very little faith in FSG to do handle this properly, which is why I'm looking for actual suggestions that can be put to them.

 

You're damn right this is about leadership, and right now FSG are showing precious little of it. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that they have to make a powerful statement before the FA Cup game. Evra is going to get slaughtered by the crowd, you and I both know it, and nothing the club can do or say is going to change that. But if they explain forcefully to a wide audience why we believe so strongly that there has been a massive injustice and that Evra has been instrumental in creating it, we might just have a chance of changing the post-match narrative from "racist Liverpool fans attack victim of racial abuse" to "furious Liverpool fans vent anger at Evra for alleged lies".

 

 

Neil, I am in no doubt that Luis has been wronged.

 

Unfortunately your points perpetuate the blind alley which some have been careering down.

 

1.Is simply wrong. He admitted to using language making reference to Evras colour in writing, and Comolli backed it up. It was an own goal.

 

2.Is wrong- se point 1.

 

3.The Tribunal is free to make a judgement on the reliability of evidence offered to it – that is what tribunals do.

 

4.See above regarding demeanour.

 

 

You've misunderstood my point, my fault for not making it clearer.

 

I'm not talking about the report and our rebuttal of it within the narrow confines of the FA's hearing and appeals process. I'm talking about it in the wider sense of natural justice which media and fan opinion can relate to.

 

The FA Commission found Suarez guilty of referring to Evra's colour, but the court of public opinion has found him guilty of repeated racial abuse. The Commission set out Evra's claims that Luis called him negro 7 times in an insulting manner, and even though there is absolutely no proof of this beyond Evra's word, they never cast any doubt upon it. If Luis had really said "I kicked you because you're black" and "I don't talk to blacks" he should be up on a criminal charge, because as far as I'm concerned that's just as bad as what Terry is alleged to have said. The FA don't have the confidence to take it that far, but at the same time leave the possibility hanging that it might have happened, and so although Luis isn't found guilty of this more serious allegation by the system itself, he is by the media and the public, to the detriment of his character and potentially his livelihood. Regardless of whether it fits the FA's rules, that is an affront to natural justice in anyone's book, as is the blatantly biased decision to take Evra's demeanour as a sign of greater reliability.

 

 

You explain:” As for the press's refusal to examine and present our side of the story, you say "for whatever reasons" as if it's a mystery, but it's really not. The reason the press haven't done this is because there's no story and no headline in it as things stand”

Perhaps the fact that no journalists were invited for briefings of our side of the story pre verdict and judgement is an alternative explanation? Perhaps the absence of one of the best media gurus in the world, our very own TW had something to do with it?

 

 

This isn't an alternative explanation, you've just confirmed what I said. If our press people had done their job properly, there would be a story and a headline that would be more favourable to us. Just because we fucked up on that score earlier doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't do anything now.

 

 

I am as aggrieved as anyone as to how this turns out. But I despair of those who pursue a failed course of action- and are then surprised by the results.

 

Where we were ( which should have been handled far better) has gone. We have to deal with where we are, now.

 

 

Yes I know, you've said that a lot. Care to actually suggest anything? Because everything I've read from you has been about what we should have done and what we shouldn't do, and nothing has been about what we might do next.

[Neil G]

I'm not sure what opening this up again in public would achieve. From the club's point of view, we should never have accepted the "verdict", and should have appealed, that was the chance, even though we knew that the game was rigged. That would have been doing the right thing. You do not start a fight, which we did in the press releases during the case and after the ruling, without being ready to finish it.

 

Secondly, and more importantly, the present situation is that as the club has decided its position (after having a different position), the only one to decide about further action is Luis Suarez himself. Before anyone starts with anything, they should try to see what he wants. It's all good and well to fight for the club when it is a question of the ownership, or generic issues like that, but here we are talking about a player, an individual, who may well want to leave this all alone and not be a figurehead of a campaign. If he does, though, we should go all out, no problem there.

 

Third point to think is the timing, before the ManU games? Not a good idea, we would be seen as aggressors again. After them? Maybe, but there's a good chance that other issues fill the newspapers at that stage.

 

 

Valid point re Luis's wishes, but this is about more than just him now. Kenny is being smeared as well, and so by extension are the players and the owners. That means that there are now other people who are directly affected by this and who should have a say on whether the club fights it, but it also means that Luis won't be central to the campaign any more and thus will have less of the focus on him.

 

Re the timing, I was previously torn about it and thought it might be best to leave it until after the FA Cup game, but I'm convinced now that the club needs to speak out before then. As I said to Xerxes, it won't make the occasion any less incendiary and will earn us some more criticism, but it might give us some control of the post-match agenda and start to turn the tide of opinion.

[Neil G]

A really good post in full Neil.

 

I wholly agree that we currently have the worst of both worlds because we talked a good game, but seemingly didnt mean it.

 

I also agree that the potential for this to cause us further damage directly through lost commercial/sponsorship opportunities, and indirectly through guilt by association in the corridors of powers is considerable.

 

No-one, least of all me, is suggesting this is easy, but this is the first big test for FSG.

 

What baffles me is that when they took over the argument was that although they knew nothing about football they were world leaders in media/Pr (Tom Werner is). Why has so little of that expertise been evident?

 

 

I'm absolutely baffled too. It's not just on the media front that they've failed, there's also the question of basic supervision of senior management. This was such a potentially serious incident that they should have close and regular contact with whoever was running show at this end (presumably Ayre). Either they didn't do that, or they did and they apparently waved through some horrific legal blunders. I can't imagine for example that McCormick would have done something so major as fail to challenge Evra's credibility because of the Stamford Bridge incident, without informing the club.

 

The fact that FSG seem to have dropped the ball so badly on this is in my opinion one of the main reasons why they now have an obligation to step up and tackle the fallout instead of staying silent and hoping it fades away.

[bri5x]

Great piece neil.I agree 100% with everything you,ve said.well thought out,comprehensive,where do I sign...but its futile.the club has already pointed out the glaring flaws in the report.no one took a blind bit of notice.we've got no support what so ever,zero,zip,zilch.except for a few local journalists who dare not go to far. even brian reade isn't fighting our corner.he sort of critisised the fa in his column on saturday but he did it in cojunction with critisising kenny, and the club. he,s lost all credibility for me.the reaction of the mirror and their sports writers is particularly curious.here is a paper that prides itself on its socialist principles,its left of centre,anti establishment stance. they took,unashamedly and without question,every word of one of the most entrenched “ establishments ”. Even if the club had behaved like mother theresa,it wouldn't of made any difference,suarez and the club were judged guilty the second the accusation was made.look at how the families of the hillsborough justice campaign have conducted themselves.with quiet dignity,at every obstacle and slamned door put in their way.this was an injustice of the most calculating evil by the police,government and yes the fa.where there was no need for slow motion replays or interpretation.this was played out to a global audience right into their living rooms.96 deaths.97 if you count stephen whittle.who a few months ago,threw himself in front of a train because he could no longer live with the guilt of having given his ticket to his best mate..who became one of the 96.despite overwhelming evidence and the taylor report clearing liverpool fans from blame,its still taken 22 f.....g long ,painfull years for the families to get the hillsborough injustice debated in parliament.you have to this day,polititians still trying to blame the fans.we are seen as undesirables that occupy a bleak north west outpost of england.that a government tried to “manage the decline ” of. so we've got no chance of clearing luis,s name,or the clubs or the fans.the fa,the media and man utd have dug a fucking big deep,dark hole and thrown us in it,they,ve then handed us a spade.

[kalasoma]

I think if we start small, like invite Luis to play in a kick-a-bout with some kids in a schoolyard in Bootle or something, then work our way towards supporting his image, building it back up from there? Small steps.

[Guest TK-421]

You put your case as well as ever , Neil, but i disagree on a few fundamental points.

 

Firstly, i don't think the club is in a position to do as you suggest without damaging itself further . We've made a pretty definitive statement saying we won't take this further. To reverse our position again will make us look foolish, and all the headlines will fire up again. All this against the backdrop of the adeyemi case and two games against the mancs. nightmare. we simply can't inflame this anymore and then claim to be acting responsibly.

 

Secondly people just don't want to know. Suarez is guilty - that's it. Without a legal challenge to prove our case it's just posturing. I think you overplay the public thirst for natural justice. outside Liverpool nobody cares now. justice has been done and without an appeal that won't change, certainly not with a lawyer at a press conference with all due respect.

 

Third point is that i think it would be unwise to go over fsg's head on this. i think we must defer to them. with hicks and gillett it was entirely justified but not so here. we can't all take to the keyboards everytime they do something we don't like.

[xerxes]

. Care to actually suggest anything? Because everything I've read from you has been about what we should have done and what we shouldn't do, and nothing has been about what we might do next.

 

Fair comment.

 

The first thing that needs to happen is for the powderkeg of the Cup game to be successfully navigated.That will mean the players understanding that the result on the pitch is secondary to the impression they create.It will mean a joint statement by both clubs that racist and abusive language will not be tolerated from the crowd with a police, steward and camera presence that has never been witnessed at Anfield before, with all non club crest only banners banned.Draconian? Yes. But likely to be effective.With round 2 in the league to follow there is no room for error with the management of this game.

 

On the PR side we could do worse than to send a camera crew out to SA to show Luis following up the SA Childrens Football project he supported BEFORE this incident. Finding out how the money that was raised BEFORE has been spent would be useful, showing him coaching the kids during his enforced lay off (in the sun!) even better. A smiling young footballer, coaching kids with blue skies in the background and body copy which says: "I havent a racist bone in my body, I regret the misunderstanding, I am grateful to those who have supported me, I accept the big picture, and it is a pleasure to be giving something back- as i have always done" is a no-brainer.Rehabilitaion assured.

 

The case itself is over. But what we can do is muster support for a change in the FA rules that race charges, (which have criminal implications), should be handled first by the Police.

 

With a bit of luck the Terry case will dwarf Luis' case and the Man U game/s will go off without incident.Internally, JW needs to identify what went wrong- and put it right.

[Libero]

Quite frankly, the fact that Luis is part black, is basically of Afro-Uruguayan heritage should have been repeated right from the very beginning.

[TheResonator]

I think a crucial mistake that's being made in this consideration of our responses is the idea that people are actually interested in the truth.

 

This smear campaign has never been about whether or not Suarez was guilty, or whether or not the club was right to support him, or even what the club's intentions were in doing so. It is simply about the club vs. the press; the club vs. the FA.

 

The press are not a body desperate for the truth. They print their stories and, if anybody fights against the image they put forward, they will attempt to crush them. They operate like a cartel. Suarez being found guilty was always what they would have wanted, because it is more scandalous, it sells more papers, and Suarez was already public enemy number one. The reason we're facing such an almighty shit-storm over it is because we refused to accept Luis' guilt, and we refused to offer the contrition that this kind of case (read: taboo) demands. In doing so, we essentially went to war with the tabloid press and we are, right now, in the midst of that war.

 

The idea that we can get the right statements or the right coverage out there misses the basic point that the people who we want to help us are the people we are at war with. They've already picked their sides in this battle. The theory of offering something that is 'good copy' exists, but my question would be: who is the market audience? Our club is despised all over the country and schadenfreude is the new opiate of the masses -- who is there out there who actually wants to believe there is any good in us?

 

Our best bet would be to take the FA to task over their disciplinary procedure and win. There is a scandal there. It is totally corrupt that the panel had Denis Smith, a close personal friend of Ferguson on it, and that they accepted all of Evra's inconsistencies unflinchingly whilst taking Suarez to task on his. That is the only way for us to fight our way out of it: offering a bigger sacrifice. Otherwise, it's just a case of taking it on the chin.

 

The idea, however, of just sitting back, putting out a few platitudes and letting it blow over is quite sickening to me. As I said, this is not about fighting for the truth, it is about standing up for ourselves against an organisation that is determined to crush us simply for not meekly bowing down and accepting their judgement. That this organisation is supposedly charged with keeping the people informed of the truths in our society makes it, in my opinion, the worst kind of tyrant, and the last sort we ought to show contrition to. On a matter of principle, I would rather we told them all to go fuck themselves. Let them smear us and denigrate us as much as they want, damn a coward's logic, and we can hold our heads up whatever the outcome. Any concessions we make are not to the sensitivity of the subject matter or the parties who are wronged, they are being made to the media who are armed to the teeth with the greatest sort of hypocrisy. We shouldn't let them extort tribute from us.

 

The problem with this fight is that we can't win it. We can surrender or we can fight and take the damage, which will be considerable. The side you take depends on your mentality; but it's not a fight of virtue that is being waged through the press. It is a fight with the press, and a fight against everybody who wants their sacrificial scapegoat, who are people like Piara Powar, Oliver Holt, the FA, Ferguson, and of course the great British public. There is not a man within that crowd for whom I hold respect and I would rather we damn them all and say our piece. Those who decide to listen will do so and those who ignore us should be pitied for their smallness. We are a proud club and we should not have to abdicate our spirit for the sake of pragmatism.

[Mojo]

I would do everything to have Luis and Adeyemi speak out in unison against racism, with Luis talking about his pride in his African ancestry and how he abhors racism.

[Carradona]

tl;dr

 

Such an ignorant post.

 

Neil, it was an excellent post, and hopefully you are back for good.

 

I would agree with most of it, but would strongly disagree about one thing. I know you are clearly stating that this is nowhere near as bad as Hillsborough but that you can see some similar traits in the way both incidents have been handled.

 

I personally think that Hillsborough shouldn't even be mentioned in this whole discussion. It just doesn't fit right with me.

[Redexile]

I think a crucial mistake that's being made in this consideration of our responses is the idea that people are actually interested in the truth.

 

This smear campaign has never been about whether or not Suarez was guilty, or whether or not the club was right to support him, or even what the club's intentions were in doing so. It is simply about the club vs. the press; the club vs. the FA.

 

The press are not a body desperate for the truth. They print their stories and, if anybody fights against the image they put forward, they will attempt to crush them. They operate like a cartel. Suarez being found guilty was always what they would have wanted, because it is more scandalous, it sells more papers, and Suarez was already public enemy number one. The reason we're facing such an almighty shit-storm over it is because we refused to accept Luis' guilt, and we refused to offer the contrition that this kind of case (read: taboo) demands. In doing so, we essentially went to war with the tabloid press and we are, right now, in the midst of that war.

 

The idea that we can get the right statements or the right coverage out there misses the basic point that the people who we want to help us are the people we are at war with. They've already picked their sides in this battle. The theory of offering something that is 'good copy' exists, but my question would be: who is the market audience? Our club is despised all over the country and schadenfreude is the new opiate of the masses -- who is there out there who actually wants to believe there is any good in us?

 

Our best bet would be to take the FA to task over their disciplinary procedure and win. There is a scandal there. It is totally corrupt that the panel had Denis Smith, a close personal friend of Ferguson on it, and that they accepted all of Evra's inconsistencies unflinchingly whilst taking Suarez to task on his. That is the only way for us to fight our way out of it: offering a bigger sacrifice. Otherwise, it's just a case of taking it on the chin.

 

The idea, however, of just sitting back, putting out a few platitudes and letting it blow over is quite sickening to me. As I said, this is not about fighting for the truth, it is about standing up for ourselves against an organisation that is determined to crush us simply for not meekly bowing down and accepting their judgement. That this organisation is supposedly charged with keeping the people informed of the truths in our society makes it, in my opinion, the worst kind of tyrant, and the last sort we ought to show contrition to. On a matter of principle, I would rather we told them all to go fuck themselves. Let them smear us and denigrate us as much as they want, damn a coward's logic, and we can hold our heads up whatever the outcome. Any concessions we make are not to the sensitivity of the subject matter or the parties who are wronged, they are being made to the media who are armed to the teeth with the greatest sort of hypocrisy. We shouldn't let them extort tribute from us.

 

The problem with this fight is that we can't win it. We can surrender or we can fight and take the damage, which will be considerable. The side you take depends on your mentality; but it's not a fight of virtue that is being waged through the press. It is a fight with the press, and a fight against everybody who wants their sacrificial scapegoat, who are people like Piara Powar, Oliver Holt, the FA, Ferguson, and of course the great British public. There is not a man within that crowd for whom I hold respect and I would rather we damn them all and say our piece. Those who decide to listen will do so and those who ignore us should be pitied for their smallness. We are a proud club and we should not have to abdicate our spirit for the sake of pragmatism.

 

Very well put, sums up how I feel about this issue. Amazing how the press have completely ignored what Johnny B has had to say whilst giving countenance to anybody with a message that fits the presses agenda.

[Major Tom]

I think a crucial mistake that's being made in this consideration of our responses is the idea that people are actually interested in the truth.

.........

 

The problem with this fight is that we can't win it. We can surrender or we can fight and take the damage, which will be considerable. The side you take depends on your mentality; but it's not a fight of virtue that is being waged through the press. It is a fight with the press, and a fight against everybody who wants their sacrificial scapegoat, who are people like Piara Powar, Oliver Holt, the FA, Ferguson, and of course the great British public. There is not a man within that crowd for whom I hold respect and I would rather we damn them all and say our piece. Those who decide to listen will do so and those who ignore us should be pitied for their smallness. We are a proud club and we should not have to abdicate our spirit for the sake of pragmatism.

 

The end is bringing stability and dignity back to the club, not the fight itself.

[Trevorjc]

I don't think the club will do anything that might inflame the situation before the cup and league match's.

 

As a club these two matches have such a high possibility of trouble, there is almost a certainty of claims of racist chants against Evra, it only needs one paper to claim racially motivated abuse and we will be in the shit again. How can we ensure this doesn't happen?

 

Why don't the club offer to the F.A. and the Mancs to play this match behind closed door's, providing any replay and the league game at old toilet is also played behind closed doors too. It needs to be pitched along the lines that the club abhors racism and abuse of all kinds, that we as a club are doing all it possible can to diffuse the potential for trouble. If this offer is turned down (which it will be) at least it will shift the focus onto FA and mancs and some journo's might ask why our suggestion was refused. Downside to the offer is that the club are almost admitting it can't control its fans.:wallbutt:

 

Back to the excellant OP Neil asks what we as fans can do to clear Luis's name.

 

Create a website luissisinocent or something like that

have the main page as an article pointing out all the discrepancies of the report

include a youtube video showing Luis's in action and quotes from players around the world who have supported him since the show trial.

Blitz social media like twitter and facebook all with links back to the website.

 

If we can make this go viral and then get into mainstream press at least a few more questions will be asked in the media.

 

One thing which i have not seen mentioned anywhere which i think needs to be highlighed is that Evra started the clash by speaking in Spanish to Luis. If your english is not good and somebody speaks to you in your native language especially in an agressive manor your going to reply in your native tounge.

[Whelan]

I think pragmatism has to win in a situation that is ultimately being dictated by emotions. The lines are too entrenched to change now I think, Major Tom, TK, and Horus are right I think. Time to move on.

 

This doesn't mean you gave up because it doesn't mean you have changed your opinion, not about Luis nor about the media, but this is a battle we will not win, lets pick a fight we can win. I would like the club to deal with the lazy and, quite frankly, despicable journalism that we have witnessed from the Mirror but other than that lets keep quite, ignore the FA for a few months win the FA cup, their cup! And when the time arrives, and the odds are in our favour make sure we hit them hard.