Clearing Luis's name: time for the club and the fans to speak up

[Major Tom]

The trouble we have now is that the more the club protests, the more we will be criticised for "sour grapes" or "not being tough on racism" or some other spurious shite. The story was framed and led in such a way that we are fighting a massive uphill battle. Clearly the FA have played the media game MUCH better than we did. My suspicion is that the story was initially drip fed to manc-friendly journos like Lipton and that tit at The Guardian and they had their stories ready to go when it broke. We can still change the conversation but we will need LFC-friendly journalists on our side and for the sane voices of black ex-pros (like Digger) to be heard.

 

It will take some shift in momentum to change the conversation. We are best to let it lie. We are only digging ourselves a deeper hole in their eyes.

[MLB]

It will take some shift in momentum to change the conversation. We are best to let it lie. We are only digging ourselves a deeper hole in their eyes.

 

 

Are we fuck. Whose side are you on?

[Major Tom]

Are we fuck. Whose side are you on?

 

The same side as you, I assume. Whose side are you on?

[xerxes]

The trouble we have now is that the more the club protests, the more we will be criticised for "sour grapes" or "not being tough on racism" or some other spurious shite. The story was framed and led in such a way that we are fighting a massive uphill battle. Clearly the FA have played the media game MUCH better than we did. My suspicion is that the story was initially drip fed to manc-friendly journos like Lipton and that tit at The Guardian and they had their stories ready to go when it broke. We can still change the conversation but we will need LFC-friendly journalists on our side and for the sane voices of black ex-pros (like Digger) to be heard.

 

It’s a bit worse than that, MLB, the fans and Kenny/the players have been magnificent, the Club has not.

 

Ayre failed to get the legal team to shut this case down and control it from day one. We allowed the only hard evidence used against us to be our own. We failed to challenge the composition of the panel. We said that we were shocked and surprised at the verdict- and then said “oh alright then”. We failed to brief journalists pre verdict and pre judgement. The journos had a 115 page document from the FA and a slick press release with pre briefings from the Mancs – the resulting press coverage is hardly a surprise. What have they had from us? A statement that we then pretty much contradicted, then mutterings that “we would like to say more, but we can’t” (Why!).

 

Us scousers love a fight and to defend our own – but we have every right (particularly Luis) to expect more from those at the club.I have no time for the FA - but we didn't half make it easy for them.

[MLB]

The same side as you, I assume. Whose side are you on?

 

 

I don't think there's any doubt about whose side I'm on.

[Major Tom]

I don't think there's any doubt about whose side I'm on.

 

Number one fan, hey?

 

The club have taken the pragmatic stance and have let this lie. Whose side do you there they're on?

[MLB]

It’s a bit worse than that, MLB, the fans and Kenny/the players have been magnificent, the Club has not.

 

Ayre failed to get the legal team to shut this case down and control it from day one. We allowed the only hard evidence used against us to be our own. We failed to challenge the composition of the panel. We said that we were shocked and surprised at the verdict- and then said “oh alright then”. We failed to brief journalists pre verdict and pre judgement. The journos had a 115 page document from the FA and a slick press release with pre briefings from the Mancs – the resulting press coverage is hardly a surprise. What have they had from us? A statement that we then pretty much contradicted, then mutterings that “we would like to say more, but we can’t” (Why!).

 

Us scousers love a fight and to defend our own – but we have every right (particularly Luis) to expect more from those at the club.I have no time for the FA - but we didn't half make it easy for them.

 

 

You haven't really contradicted anything I've said, you've just expanded on it a bit. The legal team was shite and the club have dropped the ball on the PR/media side of things, that much is clear. Now we have to do what we can to claw back ground and try and change the tone of the argument. It won't be quick or easy, but it's a propaganda war, so we can do it. We have to have better propaganda than them. What is in our favour is that we have truth and logic on our side.

[Major Tom]

You haven't really contradicted anything I've said, you've just expanded on it a bit. The legal team was shite and the club have dropped the ball on the PR/media side of things, that much is clear. Now we have to do what we can to claw back ground and try and change the tone of the argument. It won't be quick or easy, but it's a propaganda war, so we can do it. We have to have better propaganda than them. What is in our favour is that we have truth and logic on our side.

 

Why do we have to enter - let alone win - a propaganda war? What's in it for us? It will keep our name in the papers, the media will lap it up, they won't change their stance - will only harden it - all the while having a destabilising effect on the whole club and keeping Suarez in the spotlight. Nothing to be gained at all.

 

Hanker down and concentrate on the stuff on the pitch and let that do the talking.

[MLB]

Number one fan, hey?

 

The club have taken the pragmatic stance and have let this lie. Whose side do you there they're on?

 

 

They patently haven't "let it lie" though. They have accepted the judgement in the dim realisation that another FA-appointed panel is more likely to extend the ban than reduce it, and does not have the authority to clear the player's name anyway. The subsequent statements attest to the fact that club still very much supports the player and is not content to simply accept that he will be branded a racist for life on the back of such flimsy and contradictory evidence. And nor should they.

[MLB]

Why do we have to enter - let alone win - a propaganda war? What's in it for us? It will keep our name in the papers, the media will lap it up, they won't change their stance - will only harden it - all the while having a destabilising effect on the whole club and keeping Suarez in the spotlight. Nothing to be gained at all.

 

Hanker down and concentrate on the stuff on the pitch and let that do the talking.

 

 

Suarez will be in the spotlight anyway. It won't destabilize the club at all. There is a great deal to be gained in changing perceptions and ensuring that the players - and the reputation of the club - is protected.

 

I completely disagree with pretty much everything that you've said on this subject, and I'm glad that your opinions are very much in the minority.

[Guest TK-421]

The statement also said draw a line under it and time to move on.

[Major Tom]

They patently haven't "let it lie" though. They have accepted the judgement in the dim realisation that another FA-appointed panel is more likely to extend the ban than reduce it, and does not have the authority to clear the player's name anyway. The subsequent statements attest to the fact that club still very much supports the player and is not content to simply accept that he will be branded a racist for life on the back of such flimsy and contradictory evidence. And nor should they.

 

Of course the club support the player. Doesn't mean they see any sense in stringing out this situation though. Which there clearly isn't.

[Major Tom]

Suarez will be in the spotlight anyway. It won't destabilize the club at all. There is a great deal to be gained in changing perceptions and ensuring that the players - and the reputation of the club - is protected.

 

I completely disagree with pretty much everything that you've said on this subject, and I'm glad that your opinions are very much in the minority.

 

A great deal to be gained? Bullshit. By keeping on fanning the flames, it will only serve to further sully the name of the club, player and fans.

[Guest LFD]

The best way for the club and Luis to clear his name is by keeping his head down and getting his repuation back with actions - words and statements won't do any good now. He simply needs to show he is not the character people perceive him to be.

[MLB]

A great deal to be gained? Bullshit. By keeping on fanning the flames, it will only serve to further sully the name of the club, player and fans.

 

 

I think you are showing a very limited understanding of how PR battles are fought and won. The idea is not to "fan the flames". Making inflammatory statements has backfired spectacularly already. We need to show a great deal more subtlety and craft than that.

 

If you want to give up and take your medicine, though, that's up to you. I hope you enjoy the taste.

 

We are never going to agree and I'm never going to respect your position, so let's leave it at that.

[Major Tom]

 

We are never going to agree and I'm never going to respect your position, so let's leave it at that.

 

Sounds good to me!

[xerxes]

Why do we have to enter - let alone win - a propaganda war? What's in it for us? It will keep our name in the papers, the media will lap it up, they won't change their stance - will only harden it - all the while having a destabilising effect on the whole club and keeping Suarez in the spotlight. Nothing to be gained at all.

 

Hunker down and concentrate on the stuff on the pitch and let that do the talking.

 

There is some sense in that.

 

I thought that was what we were doing when we decided not to appeal, but then we kept the pot boiling with the “things we would like to say but can’t” coda.

 

The home cup game though DOES require some management, the potential for negative publicity which could further damage the club’s reputation, and commercial/sponsorship prospects is very high.

 

You can either make it happen, let it happen, or wonder what has happened...............................

[Anubis]

A great deal to be gained? Bullshit. By keeping on fanning the flames, it will only serve to further sully the name of the club, player and fans.

 

Newsflash - we're already there, Tom. It isn't going to get any worse because it can't. I don't understand why it is that if you are charged with any sort of offence you are allowed to protest your innocence, but add racism into the pot and you're expected just to lie down and take it like a good little boy. When you're accused of racism it seems that people are scared to stand up for themselves.

 

Well I'm not racist, and I'm not scared to stand up for myself, and others.

[Major Tom]

Newsflash - we're already there, Tom.

 

Well, I obviously know that!

 

It isn't going to get any worse because it can't. I don't understand why it is that if you are charged with any sort of offence you are allowed to protest your innocence, but add racism into the pot and you're expected just to lie down and take it like a good little boy. When you're accused of racism it seems that people are scared to stand up for themselves.

 

Do you think the club are scared to stand up for themselves or for Luis? I think it's more damage limitation dictating that they let it slide. For the reasons I have already said in this thread.

[Major Tom]

There is some sense in that.

 

I thought that was what we were doing when we decided not to appeal, but then we kept the pot boiling with the “things we would like to say but can’t” coda.

 

The home cup game though DOES require some management, the potential for negative publicity which could further damage the club’s reputation, and commercial/sponsorship prospects is very high.

 

You can either make it happen, let it happen, or wonder what has happened...............................

 

Yep. There has been some odd handling of this affair indeed. We can repair some of the damage in the FA cup game. But, as you say, it will require some managment.

[Guest TK-421]

It's easy for us as fans to lead the call for a fightback, but not the club. Every move is being scrutinised. If we were to launch an offensive it could easily be interpreted as incitement.

 

Major Tom is right. Looking at it purely pragmatically there zero to be gained. The club know it and in their heart of hearts (dig deep) everyone here knows it too.

[Anubis]

The club know it and in their heart of hearts (dig deep) everyone here knows it too.

 

I don't know it. Don't dare presume to speak for me.

[ngogswilly]

I understand the logic behind walking away and in my mind I find it hard to argue with.

 

But where I see flaws in some arguments is, some people seem to suggest we walk away so everything will die down. Yes it will for now, but people are fucking kidding themselves if they think walking away with our tails between our legs won't have consequences.

 

I compared the media to the playground bully in this thread earlier and thats what I truly believe, once you let them push you around once or twice they will just keep coming back for more and more.

 

We are in that situation now where if we don't at least give them a good hiding somewhere along the line this shit will never stop, even if theres a lull now and again they'll just be waiting for the next lunchtime so they can have a pop again.

 

Which is a why I thought it was imperative the club called a press conference and dissected that report properly, it would have least raised a shitload of points they would have had a hard time arguing with and given them a nice little kick in the arse. But alas it never happened.

[Guest San Don]

It’s a bit worse than that, MLB, the fans and Kenny/the players have been magnificent, the Club has not.

 

Ayre failed to get the legal team to shut this case down and control it from day one. We allowed the only hard evidence used against us to be our own. We failed to challenge the composition of the panel. We said that we were shocked and surprised at the verdict- and then said “oh alright then”. We failed to brief journalists pre verdict and pre judgement. The journos had a 115 page document from the FA and a slick press release with pre briefings from the Mancs – the resulting press coverage is hardly a surprise. What have they had from us? A statement that we then pretty much contradicted, then mutterings that “we would like to say more, but we can’t” (Why!).

 

Us scousers love a fight and to defend our own – but we have every right (particularly Luis) to expect more from those at the club.I have no time for the FA - but we didn't half make it easy for them.

 

For the love of god, if you cant get this bit right, everyone should consider the other shit you chat.

 

We were forbidden by the FA to comment on the case. And dont give it 'briefings are commenting on it' because you know full well that falls under the FA's directive.

[xerxes]

I agree with Anubis that the taboo of discussing racism is counter-productive and self defeating and we are right to challenge guilt by innuendo.

 

I disagree with Major Tom that things cannot get worse. The Cup game coincides with the Terry trial. Racism will be on the front pages again. Pro Saurez chants and anti-Evra chantsmay be reported as pro racist. The chances of individual spectator verbal or physical misbehaviour are very high ( if people can get excited about an Oldham player in a cup stroll.........).The chances of an on field bust up are also very high if Evra plays – and it won’t be the Man U players who are blamed.

 

I cannot remember an English club game with more combustible ingredients – ever.