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Clearing Luis's name: time for the club and the fans to speak up


Neil G
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Greetings FFers. I'm temporarily breaking my self-imposed TLW exile to weigh in on this mess. Apologies for the essay-length post, but it's my first for 3 years so indulge me.

 

Like most of you I've been consumed by a rising sense of fury and disbelief over the past few weeks. I never thought it possible that I could have witnessed such a blatant show trial and frenzied, malicious witch hunt in this country without a nationwide fascist coup d'etat taking place first, but what the hell did I know. It was already beyond parody before the Adeyemi incident, but since then it's morphed again and now resembles some grotesque fusion of the Salem witch trials and 1984. I think I can safely say now that nothing, absolutely nothing else that the media or the football establishment could say or do with regard to this would surprise me.

 

The thing that gave me confidence at the beginning was the stance of the club. Surely they wouldn't go all out to back Luis like this if they weren't completely resolved to fight for him all the way and win. And so I nearly exploded when I heard we weren't appealing, as it looked like a total capitulation. I wanted an appeal not because I hoped that it would get Luis's ban reduced – there was never any chance of that happening after the FA making such a strong statement to begin with – but because I thought it would be the best way to publicly expose the ridiculous inconsistencies and bias in that joke of a report, and therefore help to restore Luis's reputation.

 

The impression I got from the statements about us not appealing, both the club's and Luis's, was that the club were seeking to draw a line under the whole thing and move on, essentially giving up the fight to clear Luis's name. The two things from the club statement that led me to think this were the words "It is time to put the Luis Suarez matter to rest", and the absence of any commitment to help Luis clear his name, in stark contrast to the statement released when the verdict was announced.

 

I'm pleased to see from several articles since then that it seems the club aren't ready to let this drop, and if they really are going to challenge the FA to change the disciplinary process for cases of alleged racial abuse then that's to be commended. But in the meantime Luis's reputation is still battered, and the knock-on effects have now to spread to Kenny, the rest of the squad and us the fans. Those people who say this will all blow over sooner or later, when the media and opposition fans find another target, are I'm afraid wrong. I believed they were wrong before the Adeyemi incident, and the reaction to that in my opinion has proven it beyond any doubt.

 

Even if and when the current furore dies down, Luis will remain a marked man if the judgment of the Commission and the lies of the media aren't challenged. If the view persists that he's an unrepentant racist, what's going to happen if he's embroiled in another incident which might be perceived to have any kind of racial dimension? Do any of the "time to move on" contingent honestly think he'd get the benefit of any doubt? Do they have enough confidence in the integrity of the FA or the media to believe there wouldn't be another witch hunt, maybe even worse than the current one? I don't, not for one moment. And believe me, there is a chance it will happen again, because it's now been proven that if the circumstances are right, a player can be stitched up and publicly crucified purely as the result of a misunderstanding and/or an opponent being a malicious shit-stirrer – and Evra isn't the only one of these. In case anyone forgets, the knives were already out for Luis before the incident with Evra even happened. The press's repeated praise of his footballing abilities doesn't obscure the fact that they'd love nothing more than to drive him out of the English game and claim it as a victory for British morality and integrity.

 

And even if it doesn't happen again, the club promised to stick by Luis whatever it takes. Their words from the statement after the verdict were: "we will provide Luis with whatever support he now needs to clear his name." This was the club's anthem being put into action. This was the type of unequivocal clarion call that gave Kenny, the players and the fans the confidence to make such a public and vocal defence of Luis, and to be prepared to be accused by the rest of the country of condoning racism as a result. The club owes it to Luis, his teammates, his manager and us to follow this through.

 

The Adeyemi incident has just highlighted this further. Even if it turns out the media called it right and he was racially abused, their attempts to blame the club, and Kenny in particular, for the actions of one dickhead show that they're not going to let this go. We are now the most hated club in the country, all because we had the audacity to support one of our players against a blatant miscarriage of justice.

 

That's why it's not enough for the club to try and deal with this behind closed doors with the FA. They absolutely have to fight this in public. While this is about more than just Luis now, what happened to him remains the key. The club have to take the Commission's report apart comprehensively in full view of the media. They have to expose the ignorance and self-importance of all the journalists, former and current players and anti-racist spokespeople (what a depressing indictment of them this has been) who've unquestioningly accepted the report as the truth without bothering to read the criticisms of it – and in many cases it seems without bothering to read it properly at all – and have proceeded from there to condemn the entire club.

 

This forum and others have exposed a whole catalogue of flaws, contradictions and outright bias in the Commission's report. There is more than enough in my opinion to completely torpedo the FA's case and lay the foundations for restoring Luis's reputation. Without the strictures of the FA's appeal process, the club potentially has more freedom to do this thoroughly.

 

A central part of this effort is going to have to involve playing hardball regarding Evra, in order to show that the Commission were wrong to accept his version of events. Forget the condemnation we'll face for supposedly picking on the victim, refusing to accept that we're in the wrong and further inflaming the situation. Forget the damage it might cause to any bridge-building efforts with United – as long as the truth remains hidden, and our sense of grievance and their sense of victory remain, these are ultimately doomed to fail anyway. We have to nail the little shitbag. Truthfully, analytically but uncompromisingly, we have to expose the way he's schemed and lied throughout this process if we're to have any chance of clearing Luis's name and thereby Kenny's and ours. Yes it could potentially get ugly, but when you're unjustly punished for a serious offence purely on the say-so of another person, then sometimes, unfortunately, the only way to restore your reputation is to destroy that of your accuser. This would also potentially take some of the sting out of Luis's refusal (so far) to apologise explicitly to him – if Evra's fabrications and exaggerations can be laid bare then people might start to understand why Luis won't say sorry. Luis could then offer a personal apology to him, on the condition that he apologises in turn for knowingly wrecking Luis's reputation without good cause. Turn the heat on him and see how the press, the FA and the Mancs deal with it.

 

The FA won't like it of course, and will doubtless threaten us with further punishment, but that's a nettle that we have to grasp. The alternative option of remaining silent amounts to being bullied into submission. We need to go all in on this and face the FA down, and if we make our case strongly enough and show clearly just what a farce the hearing was, the FA will expose themselves for the incompetent jobsworths they are if they still maintain we're being disrespectful. And if the club really are serious about getting the FA to reform their disciplinary procedures, I can think of no better way of bring about pressure for change than to expose the failings of the current system to public scrutiny. Who knows, other clubs might come out of the woodwork to support as, as there must be plenty more who've been fucked over by the petty dictators at FA HQ and want to hit back.

 

This all has to happen soon, certainly before Luis returns from suspension and ideally before we play the Mancs in the FA Cup. That draw has killed any chance that there might have been of the shitstorm dying down over the next few weeks, and it'll reach a crescendo when we go to Old Trafford. The media en masse will be praying for a heavy Manc victory and a red card for Luis, and will be falling over themselves to endorse the torrent of self-righteous hatred from the home crowd. (I've got to admit I'm actually a bit concerned for Luis's personal safety if the Mancs still feel as vindicated and bullish in their animosity towards him – if anything untoward were to happen, cue a deluge of sanctimonious drivel along the lines of "this tackle / elbow / assault by a fan is inexcusable, but if Luis Suarez was still in any doubt beforehand about English football’s abhorrence of racism, he can be no longer.")

 

If we can put our case across properly before then though, there might just be a chance that we can start to turn the tide, or at least halt it in its tracks. John Terry's hearing is due around the same time that Luis comes back, so I suspect that at that time, with the England captain on trial, our esteemed media commentariat might just start to develop an attachment to the concepts of due process, solid evidence and innocent until proven guilty that they've shown such scant regard for with Luis's case.

 

In my view the only way to achieve this is for the club to hold a press conference to set out the reasons why they believe the judgment was flawed and the punishment unjust. Tony Barrett did a superb job of summarising these in Thursday's Times, which proves that the arguments can be put across thoroughly but in a way that’s accessible to a wide audience. This presentation then needs to be followed by a firm condemnation, without mentioning names (that would take all day anyway), of the commentators who've either failed or refused to understand why we've been so adamant in our defence of Luis. I would want to see either John Henry or Tom Werner leading this, supported by a club lawyer (a competent one this time please) to handle the finer legal detail, and Kenny to reiterate why he and the squad support Luis in the way they do. He is the one who's best placed to explain to journalists and to the country the basic concept that if someone close to you is wrongly accused or punished, you stand by them and fight to clear their name. A pointed reminder that the media have form for this with our club might not go amiss here.

 

A further statement on the club's website and circulated to the media won't do. It has to be something that will produce footage and audio, something that will command the media's attention and fill pages in every paper, and something that can be replayed over and over on the TV and radio. If doing this in such an open way might entail a tacit admission from the club that they were incompetent in handling the technicalities of the case, so be it. Our reputation for administrative competence will be a lot easier to restore than our reputation both for fighting racism and supporting our players will be if we don't do this.

 

If however, for whatever reason, the club won't go to those lengths to fight this, we as fans have to. I've no idea what form such a statement on our part might take as I haven't got that far with my thinking, but others have (see next paragraph). I'm convinced though that the fanbase who made such a fight of ousting Hicks and Gillett is creative and determined enough to come up with something that will do the job. Let's hear some ideas in this thread.

 

If you're interested in the idea of the fans putting together their own case and haven't yet seen the Crowdsourcing thread on the LFC TV forum, I'd strongly advise you take a look:

 

The Luis Suarez Appeal via "Crowdsourcing" Thread. Dissect the Evidence - LiverpoolFC Official Forums

 

It's attempting to gather together in one place all the arguments and evidence that support our case. The original aim was to submit it to the club to assist them with compiling an appeal, but it's still of use to form the basis of a rebuttal, whether this is delivered by the club or the fans. From the look of it they have a similar idea about the fans taking action on this themselves and have started a debate on how to take it forward. If there's anything you can see that they've missed out, or if you can support them in any way, get in touch with LLS, the thread starter.

 

The current situation is unsustainable. The media in their feeding frenzy mode won't stop until they've got a victory, whether that be a serious punishment for the club (points deducted, exclusion from a tournament), an unreserved apology made from a position of defeat, or best of all hounding Luis out of the country and/or Kenny out of a job. As I've said, it may die down for a bit, but it won't go away and will linger in the background, ready to be unleashed again whenever the slightest opportunity arises. And as long as it's there, the reputation of our club will remain under attack, so the idea that we can protect it and restore it by just putting this behind us and moving on is wrong. Anybody who doubts that just has to look at the media reaction in the past week. We dropped the appeal, Luis apologised and acknowledged that what he said was unacceptable in this country, and we were still pounded from all sides by people who smelt blood even before the Oldham game.

 

So we have to act. We have to urge FSG to fight this in public, and make it clear that if they don't, we will – and we'll demand to know why it had fallen to us to do something that was their responsibility as custodians of the club. If they don't provide compelling reasons for keeping silent then I think serious questions would have to be asked of their leadership, but we're still some way short of that at the moment.

 

I've had no cause to contact FSG since they took over, as I've been overall very happy with them, so I don't know the best way to go about getting in touch with them. It's going to take more than 140 characters to put the point across properly, so I'm hoping someone knows which email address(es) are the best to use.

 

Also we as fans have to mobilise against the media. The Mirror in particular has now in my view reached the point where a boycott is just as justified as the boycott of the S*n. That's not to say that what it's done is on a par with McKenzie's filth – it's not (although given the crusade that Holt and co seem to be on, I've started to wonder actually how far they'd be driven to go in smearing us before finally drawing the line). However it doesn't follow that the most powerful response available to us should be reserved only for the most serious slurs. A discussion on how a boycott might be arranged deserves a thread of its own though, so if anyone wants to start one then go for it, otherwise I will when I've got a moment.

 

Finally, as far as action points go, the city's MPs need to be encouraged to get involved, as do any other LFC-supporting MPs who we can win round. They need to know how angry and victimised we as fans feel about this. Surely the likes of Steve Rotheram, after the passionate way he spoke up in the Commons over Hillsborough, could be enlisted to support the club on this. While this affair of course isn't on a par with Hillsborough, it involves some of the same key elements: a conscious denial of natural justice, a deliberate and calculated media smear campaign, and a desperate fight by the authorities to cover their arses and escape the criticism they deserve. If any MP is worried about the backlash of being seen to be condoning racism in the wake of the Stephen Lawrence case, it might help to point out that preventing people from having fair hearings and finding them guilty without evidence has never really contributed a great deal to the fight against racism in this country.

 

I don't know about any of you, but I've had enough. I'm sick of having ignorant, hypocritical, moralising shitehawks stick the knife into us, our players and, most of all, one of the greatest servants our club has ever had. Who the fuck do these people think they are to stand in judgment on Kenny without making the slightest effort to understand his motivations for his words and actions? This is the man who carried the club on his back in its darkest hour with a dignity and courage that they couldn't get near to comprehending, let alone mustering themselves. He's the one who's earned the right to be lecturing them on integrity and proper conduct, not vice versa.

 

I didn't think anything could make me more proud to have Kenny as our manager, but I was wrong. He has been magnificent throughout this, and with everything that he's given for this club we owe it to him to fight this cause as hard as he has. We can't simply move on when he's being smeared by agenda-driven shithouses and clueless sheep simply for doing the right thing.

 

And of course we owe it to Luis as well to fight as hard for him off the pitch as he does for us on it. Ultimately it may not make any difference to the way he's portrayed, but at the very least it might make the difference between him staying and leaving. And it will show to anyone that still doubts it that YNWA is more than just a rousing anthem and a catchy phrase.

 

Finally we owe it to our club to try and stop its name being dragged through the mud. As someone who abhors racism in all its guises, and who I'd wager has done more in my life to combat it than the majority of the press moralisers, I am fucking livid that my club is being labelled racist by a bunch of bandwagon-jumping cretins who don't even understand what the word means.

 

We can't just sit back and carry on venting on forums. We have to fight this with everything we've got.

 

Who's with me?

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tl;dr

 

I just knew some wiseass would put that as the first reply.

 

Short version then:

 

This isn't going to die down unless either the club caves in, or unless we clear Luis's name. The only way we can do that is for FSG to publicly repudiate the FA report, show why they believe it's a crock of shit, and explain why they and we have stood by Luis. Otherwise the rest of the country will continue to believe we're supporting an unrepentant racist, and we'll continue to get shit from all angles until Luis quits or we get kicked out of the FA Cup.

 

We the fans need to pressure FSG to do this by emailing them en masse. If they won't then we've got to get the message across ourselves. The thread on the LFC TV forum that I linked to has people doing this already, so people need to get over there if they want to get involved.

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Might help

 

Media on Racism: Part 1 – Churnalism « N E W S • F R A M E S • • • • •

 

Jan 6, 2012 – 2011 provided some “high-profile” news stories about racism – but even the “quality” press provided little more than churnalism. No doubt it’s safer for reporters to recycle established or “official” views than to delve deeper (or, Editor forbid, to reframe the issue for greater insight). This type of churnalism has its own dangers, as we’ll discover…

 

Two cases, in particular, are worth looking at (and comparing): BBC2′s Top Gear and Luis Suarez (Liverpool FC footballer). Part 1 considers churnalism and misreporting. (Part 2 will address the media framing).

 

Top Gear & “Lazy Mexicans”

 

In January 2011, Jeremy Clarkson and his fellow Top Gear presenters did a routine about “Mexicans”. This led to a trickle of news coverage after a complaint from the Mexican ambassador, but it didn’t become a “proper” story until after Steve Coogan wrote a comment piece (for the Observer) which pointed out that Clarkson & co would never target Africans, Pakistanis or Jews with comparable group-stereotype jokes. When I say it became a “proper” story, I don’t mean penetrating, insightful coverage… I mean: “Celebrity A blasts Celebrity B”.

 

The official officials who officiated in this case were the BBC and Ofcom. First, the BBC:

 

‘In a letter to Mexico’s ambassador in London, the BBC said it was sorry if it had offended some people, but said jokes based on national stereotyping were part of British national humour.’

 

Coogan commented: “The BBC’s initial mealy-mouthed apology was pitiful. It cited the more benign rivalry that exists between European nations (ah, those arrogant French, over-organised Germans), and in doing so neatly sidestepped one hugely important fact – ethnicity [...] The Beeb’s hand-wringing suggested tolerance of casual racism, arguably the most sinister kind.”

 

The media regulator, Ofcom, then cleared Top Gear of breaching broadcasting regulations:

 

‘Ofcom said Top Gear “frequently uses national stereotypes as a comedic trope and that there were few, if any, nationalities that had not at some point been the subject of the presenters’ mockery…”.’

 

Interestingly, the BBC’s Editorial Complaints Unit (ECU) later upheld a complaint about the show:

 

“Although the remarks were humorously intended [...] their tone and cumulative effect seemed to the ECU to give the impression of reinforcing, rather than ridiculing, the stereotype”

 

All of which raises some important questions, none of which (to my knowledge) were addressed by media coverage – certainly not by the BBC. (I’ll attempt to deal with these questions in terms of framing in part 2 of this article):

 

Is national stereotyping necessarily less serious than racial stereotyping, and if so, why?

Is national stereotyping okay as long as you abuse all nationalities uniformly and humorously?

Does the same logic apply to racial stereotyping, and if not, why not?

Should TV celebrities be punished as severely as, say, footballers?

Trial by media – Luis Suarez

 

(Note: references to “para” are to relevant numbered paragraphs in the FA report)

 

This incident started during a football match, after Patrice Evra (Manchester Utd) made the offensive remark, “your sister’s pussy”*, to Luis Suarez. It’s alleged (by Evra) that Suarez used racial insults in the dialogue that followed. (*Evra made the remark in Spanish: “Concha de tu hermana” - para 87).

 

The official officials who officiated in this case were the Football Association (FA) and their “independent commission” (ie three blokes selected by the FA).

 

Suarez denies making racial insults. The case boils down to meanings of “negro” in Spanish (nearest equivalent in English is “black”). Suarez claims he said “negro” once, inoffensively. Language experts consulted by the FA agreed that: “the use of ‘negro’ as described here by Mr Suarez would not be offensive. Indeed, it is possible that the term was intended as an attempt at conciliation and/or to establish rapport”. (Para 190)

 

Suarez claims he said “Por qué, negro?” (“why, black?” – para 205). Evra claims he said “Porque tu eres negro” (“Because you are black” – para 205). The latter could be taken as offensive according to the FA’s language experts, but the phrase struck them as “slightly unusual” (para 182), whereas the phrase claimed by Suarez “sounded right linguistically and culturally”. (Para 191)

 

Initially Evra claimed (in English) that Suarez said, at one point: “I don’t talk to you because you niggers” (para 131). He later withdrew this claim, after realising Suarez had said, in Spanish, “negro”, not “nigger”. (The report quotes Evra admitting that he is “not exactly fluent in Spanish” – para 87). As the FA’s experts pointed out, “the Spanish word ‘negro’ cannot simply be translated as ‘nigger’.” (They also point out that “It may be used affectionately … it may be used as a nickname in everyday speech … several famous people in Uruguay are known as ‘el negro’…” (para 172)

 

These important details (and much else of relevance) somehow went unreported in most media coverage following the FA’s publication of a 115-page report (listing the reasons why the 3-man panel found Suarez “guilty”). Unfortunately, ‘churnalism’ had taken the place of responsible reporting…

 

“Racial abuse” churnalism

 

The report was published by the FA on New Year’s Eve – which probably didn’t help. What journalist wants to spend the last hours of the year reading 115 pages on racial abuse allegations?

 

The Guardian led the way with lazy, irresponsible churnalism. Three Guardian articles (each by Stuart James, plus another from Andy Hunter) stated as fact that the panel ‘found that Suárez used the word “negro” or “negros” seven times’.

 

But no such thing was “found” (even though the panel used that word). There was no evidence or corroborating witness statements confirming the number of times Suarez said “negro”. There was nothing but Patrice Evra’s word. (And Evra had altered his account – he initially told Canal+ TV that Suarez used the racial term “at least ten times” (para 154), but later claimed that this was just “a figure of speech” – para 159 – with the FA report stating that he later claimed Suarez used the word “negro” five times – para 205).

 

In fact, what the report clearly shows is that there was no evidence or supporting witnesses to back up either player’s version of the crucial dialogue between them on the pitch. The entire case came down to one man’s word against another’s. This explains why the panel spent so much time trying to establish a case (again subjective and uncorroborated) that Suarez’s testimony was “unreliable”.

 

Headline churnalism: “unreliable” evidence

 

Following the publication of the report, the Press Association ran with: “FA: Suarez evidence ‘unreliable’,” and virtually all major UK media followed suit with similar headings. In what way was the evidence unreliable? The report cites two things – firstly, a few inconsistencies in Suarez’s accounts of the sequence/timing of events (although the panel concedes this is understandable given that Suarez, unlike Evra, wasn’t permitted to see the video footage while being interviewed, and thus relied on memory more – para 320).

 

Secondly, the panel said it was “unsustainable and simply incredible” for Suarez to describe his behaviour as “conciliatory and friendly” given that “the players were engaged in an acrimonious argument”. (Para 453)

 

If journalists hadn’t been so quick to ‘churnalise’ the report’s key “findings”, they might have noticed the problems with this – its circular, subjective nature. The panel apparently took as given the very premise under dispute (ie the “acrimonious” nature of Suarez’s “behaviour” – which remains uncorroborated by witness statements and video footage).

 

As a result of this churnalism, every major newspaper report covering this “unreliable evidence” story failed to mention one of the most important pieces of “unreliable evidence” – namely Patrice Evra’s withdrawn initial claim that he was repeatedly called “nigger” (he later conceded it was “negro”), and his withdrawn claim that Suarez said the racial ‘N-word’ “at least ten times” (paras 154, 159). These inconsistencies are at the heart of the allegations, unlike the arguably more minor inconsistencies in Suarez’s account.

 

Inconsistencies in the “official” report

 

Another thing that journalists might have highlighted (if they hadn’t been in such a hurry to copy-n-paste summary “findings”) was glaring inconsistency in the report itself.

 

One striking example is the panel’s “rejection” of the claim that Evra was angry throughout the match – that he was “tipped over the edge” by events (para 333), putting him in an agitated/vengeful state of mind. Here’s what the report said:

 

‘We rejected that submission [...] Mr [Ryan] Giggs described the Liverpool v Manchester United game as the biggest match. He did not consider that Mr Evra was wound up save in so far as everyone was wound up to a certain extent given the fixture. We reject the submission that Mr Evra was unduly wound up such that he was tipped over the edge to pursue vengeance against Mr Suarez.’ [Para 333]

 

But this is inconsistent with the testimony of Giggs (who is a teammate of Evra) cited earlier in the report:

 

‘It was obvious to Mr Giggs from looking at Mr Evra that he was upset. He said that Mr Evra did not seem quite with it, you might call it red mist [...] Mr Giggs then told Mr Evra to calm down and not get himself sent off’. (Para 114 – my emphasis)

 

The report also states that Evra was “angry” from the very start of the match, “when he was seen to dispute the outcome of the coin toss with the referee” (para 329). Of course, none of this negates Evra’s own testimony – but it provides a clearly relevant example of the panel’s inconsistent treatment of the evidence.

 

To my knowledge, not a single newspaper commented on inconsistencies of this type, which are evident throughout the report. The reporters had their easy-to-churn, momentum-propelled story: the “unreliability” was all Suarez’s. He was not only a racist, but a liar (although they wouldn’t word it quite so bluntly as that). Case closed. How could it possibly be otherwise?

 

“No Excuse”

 

An apparently widely-held view arising from the Suarez case (including, it seems, among Guardian writers and editors) is that since Suarez admitted using the Spanish term “negro” (once), he is guilty of racial abuse, that all mitigating circumstances boil down to “excuses”, and that those who defend him are effectively harming efforts to eradicate racism.

 

This view has far-reaching implications, of course. Even convicted murderers are granted the right to protest their innocence, citing lack of evidence, mitigating factors (such as self-defence, etc). Their defenders are not usually accused of misguidedly supporting murder – at least not by the “liberal” media.

 

So what explains these “deep” differences in conceptual approach? Was Patrice Evra correct when he claimed that the Spanish for “your sister’s pussy” translates to “fucking hell” in English? (para 87). And are there any meaningful comparisons to be made between the Top Gear and Suarez cases in terms of media treatment? All this will be addressed in Part 2, which concentrates on the media framing aspects…

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That bellend on Friday did more damage to the club than anybody else, that's where the impetus and drive come from, not what was, or wasn't, in that fucking dossier.

 

I'm not involving myself in the hand wringing of what clearly was an incident which nobody, least of all the internet warriors proposing shite like this, has come out of well.

 

Evra will be vilified, Luis will be vilified and anybody who sides with either will be vilified by the opposite camp, and the rest of the world will shrug indifferently whilst this fucking horror show ensues.

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That bellend on Friday did more damage to the club than anybody else, that's where the impetus and drive come from, not what was, or wasn't, in that fucking dossier.

 

I'm not involving myself in the hand wringing of what clearly was an incident which nobody, least of all the internet warriors proposing shite like this, has come out of well.

 

Evra will be vilified, Luis will be vilified and anybody who sides with either will be vilified by the opposite camp, and the rest of the world will shrug indifferently whilst this fucking horror show ensues.

 

 

No, the impetus and drive came from the report in the first place. If the report hadn't happened then the incident with the fan on Friday would have blown over by now.

 

What you call hand-wringing I call taking action to try and stop people fucking over our club. We did it to get rid of G&H and we should do it here. But you've announced you're out, so fair do's.

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I agree with what you're saying more than you can know.

 

It echoes just about everything I've been thinking for weeks now.

 

I think you're right in what you are saying but I'm not sure emailing FSG en masse will do us any good.

 

What should have happened it was the most logical thing to do would have been for someone in the club to call a press conference and just do a bullet point assassination of the FA's report. The evidence that it was inconsistent, contradictory and downright biased is there for all to see.

 

It should be highlighted for all the media to see in a manner in which can't be ignored, i.e. call a fucking press conference, don't use Kenny but use a club official and go down through each and every problem in the report.

 

But there maybe all sorts of legal ramifications we don't know about which prevents the club from doing that. So maybe its up to the fans.

 

Maybe we should try and start some sort of viral video campaign or start bombarding newspaper email addresses with an email containing all the points we're trying to make.

 

But ultimately the only thing thats going to help Luis is getting the information we all know, out into the public domain because the media simply arn't allowing that to happen. In my opinion the only way to make that happen is to create as much attention as humanly possible and make sure everyone can see what we're doing.

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The club and fans have spoken up and in return they have been labeled racists. No win situation as far as I can see. At this point you could lay out all the inaccuracies in that report and nobody will care.

 

 

The club haven't spoken out as loudly and clearly as they could do yet, that's my point. A press conference where we set the agenda will have far more media impact than a statement on the club website.

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The word per post count in this thread is fabulous, if Spanner hadn't F'ed it up with the shorthand this thing would read like Red Shadows blog.

 

I will admit to being massively underwhelmed by the pr/pressjockeying side of the ownership as I felt that it was certainly one of their strong points. As outsiders however it seems that they cannot peddle influence like they can in the States, in fact plenty of FleeceStreeters must feel like this is the daily double - getting to take a bite out of LFC and NYC at the same time.

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I agree with what you're saying more than you can know.

 

It echoes just about everything I've been thinking for weeks now.

 

I think you're right in what you are saying but I'm not sure emailing FSG en masse will do us any good.

 

What should have happened it was the most logical thing to do would have been for someone in the club to call a press conference and just do a bullet point assassination of the FA's report. The evidence that it was inconsistent, contradictory and downright biased is there for all to see.

 

It should be highlighted for all the media to see in a manner in which can't be ignored, i.e. call a fucking press conference, don't use Kenny but use a club official and go down through each and every problem in the report.

 

But there maybe all sorts of legal ramifications we don't know about which prevents the club from doing that. So maybe its up to the fans.

 

Maybe we should try and start some sort of viral video campaign or start bombarding newspaper email addresses with an email containing all the points we're trying to make.

 

But ultimately the only thing thats going to help Luis is getting the information we all know, out into the public domain because the media simply arn't allowing that to happen. In my opinion the only way to make that happen is to create as much attention as humanly possible and make sure everyone can see what we're doing.

 

 

If that's the case then somehow the club have to let the fans know. They couldn't do it directly but they could do it via trusted journalists or fan representatives. Staying silent and leaving us all to guess why isn't an option, not when we're getting pilloried like this.

 

Whether they ultimately act or not though, like you say, it's up to us to get on the case.

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The word per post count in this thread is fabulous, if Spanner hadn't F'ed it up with the shorthand this thing would read like Red Shadows blog.

 

I will admit to being massively underwhelmed by the pr/pressjockeying side of the ownership as I felt that it was certainly one of their strong points. As outsiders however it seems that they cannot peddle influence like they can in the States, in fact plenty of FleeceStreeters must feel like this is the daily double - getting to take a bite out of LFC and NYC at the same time.

 

I'm quite sure that my input registers quite low on the fuckedupometer.

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The other thing that I wonder about too is couldn't Luis privately release a statement where he highlights some of the problems in the report. Obviously he wouldn't be writing it, his lawyer or someone. But the point still stands surely hes entitled to defend himself against the lies Evra told being used to beat him from pillar to post.

 

The club maybe hamstrung to a degree but surely he as a private individual wouldn't be. The 2 statements, the one by him and the one by the club certainly drew a lot of attention.

 

Another like that highlighting our grievances on a point by point basis would certainly go a long way to letting people why we've been so steadfast in our defence of Luis.

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I understand your frustration, but what do you think it would accomplish?

 

Rival fans won't read a legal tome, most haven't even read the report on Suarez, they just take their cue from the press. The press have had ample time to dig into the inconsistencies of the report and have chosen not to, for whatever reasons.

 

It's a nice idea, but i fear all it would do is allow more papers to print headlines with the catchwords "Liverpool", "racist" and "Suarez", no matter what the angle of the story.

 

Ousely, Piara and any hack eager to build a rep will lay into us for being beligerent and not acepting the FA's decision and we may even face further penalties.

 

As much as i hate it, the deck is stacked against us, and i'd assume those within the club are better placed to know to what degree and how much further we could get fucked if we keep kicking.

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I understand your frustration' date=' but what do you think it would accomplish?

 

Rival fans won't read a legal tome, most haven't even read the report on Suarez, they just take their cue from the press. The press have had ample time to dig into the inconsistencies of the report and have chosen not to, for whatever reasons.

 

It's a nice idea, but i fear all it would do is allow more papers to print headlines with the catchwords "Liverpool", "racist" and "Suarez", no matter what the angle of the story.

 

Ousely, Piara and any hack eager to build a rep will lay into us for being beligerent and not acepting the FA's decision and we may even face further penalties.

 

As much as i hate it, the deck is stacked against us, and i'd assume those within the club are better placed to know to what degree and how much further we could get fucked if we keep kicking.[/quote']

 

Thats it really. We just don't know how dangerous it would be to keep going. Thats why whatever happens in a sense it probably needs to be Luis privately or the Fans because the Club can't risk getting in too much more shit. But unfortunately I'm not sure giving up is the best idea either... its a conundrum.

 

In a sense I think some of our fanbase is now beginning to turn towards thinking letting it all drop and just getting on with our lives would be the best option. But I'm not so sure just walking away will help us in the long run, we've been badly bruised on this one and the old saying goes "Give them an inch they'll take a mile".

 

Well that well and truly applies to the media with us now. I've thought from day one failure to have a sting in our tail over this even if just retreating would leave us open to all sorts of shit in the future and even though we accepted the ban, the sting we attempted fell a bit flat. Not through our own fault but mainly because the media don't want to hear our side and will not allow it to put across fairly.

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Suarez could come out and explain himself better; but more important he should show more contrition. The word negro may be benign where he comes from but not where he lives and works now. The club have bungled enough;should keep out of it now. Most fans on here don't seem to realize or don't even care. But Suarez has done some serious damage to the good name of this club. I hear that Real Madrid are interested; ship him out. The boy may be a fine footballer but clearly has some incurable character flows.

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Guest TK-421

Good to see you back , Neil!

 

I wholeheartedly disagree. In my view we should be entering a period of introspection as a club and fan base instead of, essentially, lashing out. How did it come to this? How can we stop it from happening again? That's what we should be asking ourselves. The time for blaming everyone else except us has long passed.

 

Fsg are not going to fight this. The public appetite for it is not there and it would be commercial suicide. People need to accept that and move on. If not, things will get worse and not better.

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No, the impetus and drive came from the report in the first place. If the report hadn't happened then the incident with the fan on Friday would have blown over by now.

 

What you call hand-wringing I call taking action to try and stop people fucking over our club. We did it to get rid of G&H and we should do it here.

 

I think that your response to brucespanner was harsh.

 

The club has been guilty of looking inwards, not outwards and has paid, and is continuing to pay, the price.

 

This situation is not easy and requires care and skill in resolving. That does not mean that we should not keep on trying.

 

If certain "action" makes things worse, it is pointless. Advocating taking counter-productive action, and then being surprised at the result, is not smart.

 

Kenny's initative with the shirts and the fans response has resulted, from an inadequate response from the club from whom leadership is required. we have stepped into the breach. To be fair the response to Fri night from the club was prompt, but there is still much work to do.

 

This is about leadership, and with two incendiary games coming up against the Mancs, the stakes could not be higher.

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Good to see you back , Neil!

 

I wholeheartedly disagree. In my view we should be entering a period of introspection as a club and fan base instead of, essentially, lashing out. How did it come to this? How can we stop it from happening again? That's what we should be asking ourselves. The time for blaming everyone else except us has long passed.

 

Fsg are not going to fight this. The public appetite for it is not there and it would be commercial suicide. People need to accept that and move on. If not, things will get worse and not better.

Could not agree more especially about it being commercial suicide . Yes it sticks in the throat but it is now a time for calm refelction.

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Neil G, what a great post, and I feel exactly the same as you do.

 

My concern is, as others have pointed out, that we are in a no win situation. We fight it, we are condoning racism, as determined by the hugely influential media in this country. We don't fight it, Luis' name is forever tarnished in this country at least, and I agree with you, this issue will not go away, like some others seem to think/hope/believe. It will keep rearing it's ugly head. Worst of all, Luis is vulnerable to further frivolous accusations of racial abuse, and he's got two more strikes before he is out so to speak. I can see why the club wanted to draw a line under it and Kenny's latent frustration was plain to see in his interviews. I am very disappointed at how the club dealt with this process legally, but I really believe they naively thought it would never end up here and believed that Luis would get a fair hearing. The report of course reveals that all along the process was designed to find him guilty.

 

I have been pondering writing a blog to take apart the huge tome the fa put out late on New Year's Eve, and perhaps I will, just to get the feelings of injustice off of my chest.

Luis is no saint on the football pitch, but I do believe that he does need someone (fans, other players around the world) to put his case forward. I see the Uruguayan player, Pereira, has made a good start.

Manchester United’s Patrice Evra faces international backlash - Sport Confidential - Football - Sport - People.co.uk

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As soon as the FA charged him he was guilty, I read somewhere they have a 99.5% conviction rate, all the papers and media wanted him to be guilty so we could show the world how strong we are against racism and of course he's not English which also helps them. The panel was appointed by the FA so could not have been independent because it was the FA who were bring the charge against Suarez and the panel were not qualified to make that sort of judgement

There really is no pubilc appetite to clear him, even fairminded people have dismissed the inconsistencies in that report, for the English middle classes to be accused of racism is abhorent, so much so that they go way over the top to convict someone so they can give themselves a huge pat on the back.

 

Let's pray Terry gets found guilty and takes a bullet for us and moves the attention away from Liverpool FC, well at least untill Suarez plays again.

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