Dunkan Jenkins on Twitter

[lifetime fan]

...being a typically hard working stereotypical Asian and working his bollocks off.

 

 

Rashid must have more understanding and less demanding employers than even I've got.

[Scrumhalf]

Before I begin let me be clear about who I am.

 

I'm one of the three owners over at Scouser-Tommy so obviously I have an axe to grind about the way Sean has been vilified both on twitter and on some LFC forums.

 

The point I'd like to make is one of logic and semantics.

 

What is a mole other than a source of information? Do journalists not have sources of information inside the club, any club?? Of course they do, but they are not referred to as moles, that is simply a pejorative term applied in this instance to suggest something more sinister. There was no sensitive information being revealed by "Jenkins" as everything he tweeted was already in the public domain.

 

If Jenkins has sources within the cub, or if you like, a mole, then regardless of the nature of his "parody" status he can be regarded as a journalist. The account itself claims (though obviously in a spoof manner) to be a "perspiring journo". (Quite how dull one has to be to miss this clue I have no idea, but for the basis of this argument is is unimportant).

 

So Jenkins claims to be a journo and claims to have a source inside the club.

 

Just like the BBC then? "The (insert media organisation here) understands..." means that they have heard the information and had it confirmed by someone from inside the club.

 

Grand.

 

Let's say for example Jen Chang takes, ooh, I don't know, Tony Evans of the Times to lunch. Tony has sources (or moles if you like) inside the club.

 

Is Chang going to threaten to withdraw his accreditation unless he reveals his sources?

 

And what would the consequences be if he did so?

 

Would Evans fold and give it all up?

 

 

Let me get to the point and lay it out easily.

 

If the account is a parody (and it clearly was, regardless of hindsight, in spite of what the terminally stupid would contend) then he has no mole at the club and is clearly of no interest to a Director of Communications at one of the biggest sports clubs in the world.

 

If he has a mole within the club, then in spite of pejorative presentation DJ is a journalist.

 

If that is the case, you cannot and would not expect a journalist to give up his sources for any amount of inappropriate pressure.

 

If Sean is actually a journalist he turns up, lays the recording device on the table and asks to go on the record.

 

That he turned up entirely unprepared speaks for his amateur status.

 

 

So some of you don't believe the account given by Sean. Which is fine, but your protestations are being slowly destroyed as the facts are corroborated.

 

First he was making it all up, doctored emails, DM's on twitter, the lot.

 

Then there was CCTV of the actual meeting.

 

Then there was the third party confirmation of the Season ticket threat being made and then withdrawn through a third party. A third party who doesn't work for the club.

 

Sean is in fact so unbelievable that he has a meeting with Ayre coming up.

 

I imagine they'll have the undoctored emails off the server, and guess what? They'll look exactly the same.

 

What the club does after that we don't know, but I assure you it looks pretty bad for Chang/BillyBob.

 

Ah, but I hear you say...

 

"he must be lying, he sat on it for 6 weeks and then went public to get the attention, and then at an inappropriate time because of the IPCC anouncement."

 

But no. Heaton (among others) were informed of this happening on the very day it occurred.

 

Sean sat on it on the hope that it would be resolved without recourse to publicity.

 

Getting shafted by some people you might consider trustworthy didn't help, and partly explains some of Scouser-Tommy's more aggressive members going after TAW when this came out, because they felt certain members of that coven could have immediately confirmed at least some of Sean's complaints.

The dig from Boardman (in his TAW blog post) about the timing of the allegations, I found particularly disgusting.

Many didn't know of the announcement, myself included, in spite of our involvement in the fight for justice (our "Always on Our Minds" flag is on the KOP nearly every game).

Leveraging in Hillsborough to critique someone? Well I find particularly repugnant.

 

 

I seem to have lost my way a little, but I'll leave you with this.

 

The one thing that is absolutely confirmed is that Chang met with Sean and threatened to have his season ticket removed (for whatever reason) and that subsequently that threat was rescinded via a third party.

 

The club removed some season tickets recently from a lad they thought was touting his. They didn't threaten it, they simply did it.

 

They sent a letter.

 

That being the case (and notwithstanding the implications of involving Heaton, a non club official in the matter) what the very fuck was Chang doing there?

 

 

Even if you don't believe anything else Sean has written, it doesn't matter. Chang's behaviour is entirely unbecoming for the Director of Communications of Liverpool Football club.

 

His position is both indefensible and untenable.

 

Sorry for the somewhat "Homeric" first post.

 

 

Paul

 

:yes:

 

"perjorative" :D

 

Nice job Fluke. Ha ha ha ha ha.

[Whelan]

If this was the case then it would make his appointment stupid as whilst we are owned by Americans the club is in England and is built on traditions of respect.

 

One of the first things expected of any employee of Liverpool football club is the way we conduct our business.

 

I do agree - I work alongside a couple who are annoying and obnoxious in how they work.

 

He hasn't got where he has by hard work, he is not qualified to be in this position, that is a simple fact.

 

He can do what the fuck he likes as long as he is doing his job and protecting LFC, but he is not.

 

It isn't a simple fact. Since you were not (at least not yet) involved in the recruitment process, you have absolutely no knowledge of what his qualifications are, his role requires or anything invovled in his day to day role. Other than what you 'think' a role at Liverpool FC should involve.

 

He is doing a shit job though, I do concede that point, but that is different to not being qualified.

 

Oh. Umm. Well so was I then!

 

I was doing a John Terry!

 

Although I do think Asian's are hard working, I work with them every day and they work their bollocks off. It is insanely competitive in Asia though!

[Rafa Shankly]

A fucking Internet alter ego, what a wanker.

 

What happened was, DJ got a bit of a following, the likes of Barrett was following and retweeting him, his head was turned, had delusions of self importance.

Chang rightly threatened to remove his season ticket, DJ had a brain wave, seen this as a way to gain a little bit of attention, made up a shit load of lies, and dragged the club through the gutter rags again.

 

Shame on him.

[Whelan]

Rashid must have more understanding and less demanding employers than even I've got.

 

Ahh, sorry I was being old fashioned in my use of Asian! I should qualifiy I meant Pan Asian, my experience is with Chinese. I just assumed with a name like Chang his heritage was Chinese.

[Flake]

A fucking Internet alter ego, what a wanker.

 

Is this by way of a confession?

[zigackly]

I work with them every day and they work their bollocks off.

 

Amazing there are so many of them then.

[Closer To God]

A fucking Internet alter ego' date=' what a wanker.

 

What happened was, DJ got a bit of a following, the likes of Barrett was following and retweeting him, his head was turned, had delusions of self importance.

Chang rightly threatened to remove his season ticket, DJ had a brain wave, seen this as a way to gain a little bit of attention, made up a shit load of lies, and dragged the club through the gutter rags again.

 

Shame on him.[/quote']

 

Jesus Christ!

[zigackly]

Jesus Christ!

 

There's a reason some people have them red blobs and not green ones.

 

A fucking Internet alter ego, what a wanker.

 

What happened was, DJ got a bit of a following, the likes of Barrett was following and retweeting him, his head was turned, had delusions of self importance.

Chang rightly threatened to remove his season ticket, DJ had a brain wave, seen this as a way to gain a little bit of attention, made up a shit load of lies, and dragged the club through the gutter rags again.

 

Shame on him.

 

[Scrumhalf]

A fucking Internet alter ego, what a wanker.

 

What happened was, DJ got a bit of a following, the likes of Barrett was following and retweeting him, his head was turned, had delusions of self importance.

Chang rightly threatened to remove his season ticket, DJ had a brain wave, seen this as a way to gain a little bit of attention, made up a shit load of lies, and dragged the club through the gutter rags again.

 

Shame on him.

 

 

Ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah -- you know best.

 

Contrarian, or just being a tuwat?

 

It's rhetorical. Jesus R_S, you haven't changed a bit in over 8 years of posting (or however long I've been exposed to your diatribe). :wallbutt:

[BillyBob]

So you accept it as true because of Heaton's statement, it;s on the first five minutes of the latest TAW podcast if you want to take some time out of your day.

 

But no, I am not going to ask you to believe that therefore by extension it's all true. That would be unbearably simplistic. Though actually my subsequent question in respect of us agreeing on this one element is probably simplistic too, in fact it only runs to one word.

 

Why?

 

We've agreed Jen Chang has arranged to meet and has met said fan. He threatens to take his season ticket off him. He then for whatever reason decides to rescind the threat.

In order to do this he engages Andrew Heaton as a go between.

 

This we agree on, you said yourself. You accept it.

 

So the next question is, of course, why?

 

He's got his phone number/email/twitter account.

 

He could have called, texted, DM's, emailed.

 

Why's he calling Andy Heaton to take back the threat?

 

You've agreed that's what happened, Andy has corroborated it.

 

But why not just send a message.

 

"Threat to remove season ticket off table, regards 88"

 

The end.

 

 

So let me strap myself in, and....

 

go!

 

Maybe Chang decided he had to go through a third party because, as Sean himself admitted, he was not answering Chang's calls!

 

That was pretty simple to answer.

 

As for why he rescinded the ST threat, I have no idea as I am not privy to what was actually said, and neither are you to be honest! We have one side of the story, until we have the other side then we can go round and round in circles guessing as to what happened but we will still end up back at square one. Sean is known to fabricate details, he admits to lying about stuff in order to make his character more believable, is it unreasonable to think that he may have done this with his version of events?

 

My argument isn't actually solely about whether or not he is lying, my argument is mainly concerned with people automatically presuming guilt based on one man's word alone. And until I have both sides of the story then I will not apportion guilt on anyone, if I was to do that then that would make me a hypocrite.

[Flake]

Maybe Chang decided he had to go through a third party because, as Sean himself admitted, he was not answering Chang's calls!

 

That was pretty simple to answer.

 

He's the corporate relations and communications director for one of the biggest sports clubs on the planet.

 

After some missed calls he neither left a message, sent an mail, an sms, or a letter, he thought, "I know, I'll give Andy Heaton a ring from The Anfield Wrap see if he can't make my offer to Sean".

 

This is what happened. Heaton attests to it.

 

Why not send an email? Or an sms?

 

Why would the man responsible for the global communications of Liverpool Football Club instead feel the need to involve a non club official?

 

Does he not have anyone working for him he trusts enough to call someone up?

 

 

Your answer, clear for all to see entirely beyond reason.

 

Else Chang nor any of his staff are qualified to do their jobs.

 

If communicating with one person is too difficult without bringing in unrelated blogger what chance communicating on a global scale?

 

 

Of course there is one other explanation.

[Major Tom]

Of course there is one other explanation.

 

Which is what, Flake?

[BillyBob]

He's the corporate relations and communications director for one of the biggest sports clubs on the planet.

 

After some missed calls he neither left a message, sent an mail, an sms, or a letter, he thought, "I know, I'll give Andy Heaton a ring from The Anfield Wrap see if he can't make my offer to Sean".

 

This is what happened. Heaton attests to it.

 

Why not send an email? Or an sms?

 

Why would the man responsible for the global communications of Liverpool Football Club instead feel the need to involve a non club official?

 

Does he not have anyone working for him he trusts enough to call someone up?

 

 

Your answer, clear for all to see entirely beyond reason.

 

Else Chang nor any of his staff are qualified to do their jobs.

 

If communicating with one person is too difficult without bringing in unrelated blogger what chance communicating on a global scale?

 

 

Of course there is one other explanation.

 

You asked me why he went through a third party. I answered it using Sean's own explanation, i.e. Sean was refusing to answer his calls!

 

If I refused to answer my phone to somebody then I wouldn't realistically expect them to continually try to contact me, when it is clear that I don't want to have any dialogue with them!

 

It's okay banging on about this and suggesting that Chang is unqualified or incompetent, but it dilutes your argument when the basic fact is that Sean made it clear that he wanted no contact with Chang!

[Scrumhalf]

Maybe Chang decided he had to go through a third party because, as Sean himself admitted, he was not answering Chang's calls!

 

That was pretty simple to answer.

 

As for why he rescinded the ST threat, I have no idea as I am not privy to what was actually said, and neither are you to be honest! We have one side of the story, until we have the other side then we can go round and round in circles guessing as to what happened but we will still end up back at square one. Sean is known to fabricate details, he admits to lying about stuff in order to make his character more believable, is it unreasonable to think that he may have done this with his version of events?

 

My argument isn't actually solely about whether or not he is lying, my argument is mainly concerned with people automatically presuming guilt based on one man's word alone. And until I have both sides of the story then I will not apportion guilt on anyone, if I was to do that then that would make me a hypocrite.

 

As has been mentioned on several occasions, you're lumping Sean Cummins in as one with Duncan Jenkins. Duncan Jenkins is a parody -- a made up character. As Duncan Jenkins, he lies and Duncan Jenkins makes up stuff.

 

Sean doesn't and having seen the whole lot unravel as it happened (both the lead up to it, the actual meeting, and everything that has since transpired (on our other website)), I can attest that his version of events, his emotions, his worry, his reactions to what happened are all entirely consistent with what has been corroborated by many journalists since (Andy Heaton being one).

 

It's the analogy of an actor playing a part. Just because the character he's playing lies, does not, in any way, imply, prove or even suggest that the actor himself is a liar.

 

The fact remains a club officer overstepped his bounds and threatened a fan. That's been confirmed by trustworthy third parties. Where does it end? Fuck with one of us, fuck with all of us.

[Rafa Shankly]

Ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah -- you know best.

 

Contrarian, or just being a tuwat?

 

It's rhetorical. Jesus R_S, you haven't changed a bit in over 8 years of posting (or however long I've been exposed to your diatribe). :wallbutt:

the whole "much ado about nothing" situation would have been nipped in the bud during the very first exchange of emails if DJ had wanted it resolved.

im not believing chang waded in threatening to put shit through anyone's letter box before DJ even had a chance to explain himself.

[paulcooper4]

Chang is a twat and should be sacked by the club immediately, just the same as that hicks gimp was when he acted inappropriately towards one of our fans.

 

Our fans pay there wages and if our supporters are now genuinely siding with arsehole fly-by-night gobshite directors over our own fans then I dont think I know this club or its fans any more.

 

A director of LFC met up with a Liverpool supporter and threatened him.

 

Director needs to go, and now.

 

And so do some of the arseholes we call fans these days too.

[Whelan]

Jeremy Kyle wouldn't be out of place on this thread!

[Dougie Do'ins]

But no. Heaton (among others) were informed of this happening on the very day it occurred.

 

That being the case (and notwithstanding the implications of involving Heaton, a non club official in the matter) what the very fuck was Chang doing there?

Given the part he's been allowed to play in this, one could be forgiven for thinking otherwise.

 

You asked me why he went through a third party. I answered it using Sean's own explanation, i.e. Sean was refusing to answer his calls!

 

If I refused to answer my phone to somebody then I wouldn't realistically expect them to continually try to contact me, when it is clear that I don't want to have any dialogue with them!!

Sorry BB but that's a crock of shit. I've tried to contact someone today by phone today. Not the most urgent of reasons but I needed to talk to him. After the third attempt, I sent a text and email.

 

There could have been any number of reasons why DJ did not answer his phone. Given his side of what happened during the meeting, is it unreasonable to think he just didn't feel comfortable in talking to him. He could have gotten someone else from within the club to contact him from a different number. Unless of course, nobody else from within the club knew what Chang was up to and this was why he used Heaton.

[zigackly]

Given the part he's been allowed to play in this' date=' one could be forgiven for thinking otherwise.

 

Sorry BB but that's a crock of shit. I've tried to contact someone today by phone today. Not the most urgent of reasons but I needed to talk to him. After the third attempt, I sent a text and email.

 

There could have been any number of reasons why DJ did not answer his phone. Given his side of what happened during the meeting, is it unreasonable to think he just didn't feel comfortable in talking to him. He could have gotten someone else from within the club to contact him from a different number. Unless of course, nobody else from within the club knew what Chang was up to and this was why he used Heaton.[/quote']

 

I regularly forget to charge my phone, and have left it at my sisters for two weeks before now. I'd like to think someone trying to contact me about something important would think about using some other method of getting in touch too.

[BillyBob]

Given the part he's been allowed to play in this' date=' one could be forgiven for thinking otherwise.

 

Sorry BB but that's a crock of shit. I've tried to contact someone today by phone today. Not the most urgent of reasons but I needed to talk to him. After the third attempt, I sent a text and email.

 

There could have been any number of reasons why DJ did not answer his phone. Given his side of what happened during the meeting, is it unreasonable to think he just didn't feel comfortable in talking to him. He could have gotten someone else from within the club to contact him from a different number. Unless of course, nobody else from within the club knew what Chang was up to and this was why he used Heaton.[/quote']

 

It's not a crock of shit though, Sean himself explained what happened in his blog! The following is a short version of what happened...

 

Chang tried to call him after he went back on his promise to tweet that he did not have a mole. Sean didn't answer. Change then emailed him to ask when he could ring, Sean said he wasn't sure cos his kids were noisy!!! Chang said he would ring him that night when his kids were asleep, Chang rang him, Sean saw the calls (about 20 of them) and ignored them all!

 

So the excuse that Chang should have tried another method to contact Sean is a bit silly really when he had already called him, emailed him and called again...each time he was either ignored or given a lame excuse. Then Chang turned to third party, which is pretty reasonable to me considering the fact that it was obvious Sean didn't want any contact!

 

So you can blame dead batteries, your own experiences with your mates and whatever else it is you are trying to blame Chang for in this instance, the point is he tried numerous methods, and they were all ignored by Sean. That is admitted by Sean, yet people are looking for excuses to blame Chang for the non-contact, which I find bizarre and sort of lends weight to the argument that people are not really interested in what went on, they are just after Chang, full stop!

[BillyBob]

I regularly forget to charge my phone, and have left it at my sisters for two weeks before now. I'd like to think someone trying to contact me about something important would think about using some other method of getting in touch too.

 

Which Chang did, and was then given a lame excuse from Sean.

 

Let's get real here, Sean didn't want to speak to him, Chang tried to contact him, Sean ignored the calls. It's not difficult to understand why Chang then decided to go via a third party. I am not even sure of the relevance of this argument from the anti-Chang brigade, it looks like deflection, in fact it is deflection. Let's slag off Chang for everything, let's even slate him for failing to contact Sean in person, even though Sean made it impossible! This type of stuff is a bit pathetic to see to be honest!

[Guest ShoePiss]

I'd have to look back to be 100% certain but I'm sure I remember DJ's wife was ill and he was looking after her at the time knobhead was calling him incessantly .

[coop]

BillyBob, how do you know it was a lame excuse from Sean.

 

Sean told Chang he couldn't receive his call because he was looking after his children because his wife is not well (does he need to produce a Doctors note to prove this).

 

Chang then ignored this request not to call him as he subsequently went and did so as you quoted 20 times.

 

Now that to me is harassment.

 

This can be proven however because the calls will be logged on Seans phone so not only does Chang threaten Sean he then goes and harrasses him as well.

 

After been given the reason why he can not answer the calls then Chang should have made contact via email explaining the threats were void, no more contact needed.

 

Instead he felt the need to go to a third party (to which he had admitted to threatening Sean) to contact Sean to tell him the threats were void.

 

Even the third party appeared baffled as to why Chang had done this.

[Guest ShoePiss]

we were watching this go down as it happened, DJ would have to be one seriously fucked up weirdo to have things planned right down to every post he made.

 

fucking hell