Rise of the far right in Europe.

[TD_LFC]

10 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Or, think how useful it is to have a population that is willing to lie, deny the evidence of their eyes and attack anyone who disagrees.   
 

In the other thread you’ve got people happy to argue men are safe in womens prisons, men can have beards and dicks and saying ‘no’ makes you Nazi adjacent.  It’s fucking astounding.  Control like that through the pretence of being kind.   People are even prepared to experiment on children in the name of ‘kindness’.  You’ve all been played. 

 

I mentioned everything from trans rights to cost of living/living standards through brexit, immigration and the Ukraine war and you've decided to ignore everything else to focus it back down to a single issue, again....

 

You probably need to take a few days off or at the very least reset you youtube/twitter/google algorithm.

 

 

[TD_LFC]

13 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Don't know if you have ever been to the States but it's everywhere.

 

it's probably more akin to the confederate flag.

[Poor Scouser T]

2 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

 

it's probably more akin to the confederate flag.

Don't think so. They are hugely patriotic. Not sure if they still make the kids sing the anthem in the morning at school but it runs deep over there.

[Jack the Sipper]

There's a distinction to be made between drag artists performing for children, be it in panto or in a school/library (which I have no problem with), and the same people doing the same thing, but in a sexualised manner (which I do).

 

From what I can see, there's people on here who's views on this change with the wind. One minute they're only against sexualised drag, so they're all over any hint of someone showing a bit of leg, or innuendo, a screenshot of someone with opened legs while they change positions, a drag artist in sexualised poses - but not with children - in order to justify their stance. 

 

But then, we see the same people, questioned on this, and caught up in a tangled web of their own making, casting distinctions aside - 'drag is inherently sexualised', they argue. 'What are children getting out of drag that they wouldn't elsewhere'. they say. 'Drag is womanface', they gurgle. 'Why would a man want to dress as a woman to entertain children, nudge nudge, wink wink'. 

 

There's also an awful lot of strawmanning and generalising going on with these people - "right-wingers want this cancelled, so you must be saying that anyone who opposes it on certain grounds is by definition right wing", for example. And I'm not at all comfortable with the idea that, because someone can (as has happened on this site) post a link to a dodgy conservative online site in the US that claims a drag artist doing story time is a paedophile because he was pictured with a rubber chicken, "A SYMBOL OF PEDASTRY", then we need to assume that potentially all drag artists are nonces. Do we apply to the reductive logic elsewhere and proudly announce we're wary of all  black people becuase some are criminals, Jewish people could be snide cunts because of Murdoch, watch out for Lib Dem MPs because of Cyril Smith? Or course we don't, well those of us that aren't thick as shit bigots. Yet, a section of people think it's fine to make those insinuations about men dressing as women to entertain children, and that, somehow, that puts them on the right side, the morally safe side, of the argument.

 

These are the people I think are the intolerant, small-minded,  small c conservatives, that I disagree with and whose closed minded Victorian views I take offence at. People who, in their ideal society, would happily see deviation from the norm, as they see it, banned, and use, bizarrely, the language and arguments of the left and liberals to justify their stance (it's quite telling that they think this gives them greater legitimacy, though...). They're not to be confused with people who have legitimate reservations about obviously sexualised drag artists behaving in a crude manner in front of children, and to try to present these two groups as being on the same side just doesn't wash with me.

 

 

 

[TD_LFC]

1 minute ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Don't think so. They are hugely patriotic. Not sure if they still make the kids sing the anthem in the morning at school but it runs deep over there.

 

Talking about the St Georges Cross, Union Jack has far less baggage in the minds of people.

[bossy]

20 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Don't know if you have ever been to the States but it's everywhere. I know they are an outlier but it is seen as pride in the nation. I can totally understand someone here having those same feelings. Like you lines on a map mean fuck all to me and I'm pretty much a mongrel and would not know what flag to fly even if I was that way inclined but the English and the flag is a deep and complex relationship.

I’m aware there are many American flag shaggers, probably more per square mile than here. I just find it a bit laughable.

[bossy]

24 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Theres a bloke near us and he’s got a flagpole. He puts up a different flag virtually every week and the kids guess or research which one it is a post it on the local Facebook page. 

Is that near Marple? Think I’ve seen it.

[Poor Scouser T]

1 minute ago, TD_LFC said:

 

Talking about the St Georges Cross, Union Jack has far less baggage in the minds of people.

Don't know mate its hugely complex. Go to an old firm game and see what the U Jack means there.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

46 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

I wonder about the attitude the English have towards the flag. I spend a bit of time in Scotland and Wales and flying that flag or wrapping yourself in one to watch football or rugby is seen as normal and patriotic. See someone with a Union Jack or Georges Cross automatically seems negative. Either the loonies have taken ownership or as a nation the English associate their own flag with negative traits. I don't know but it is a weird one.

I don't think the cross of St George has that many negative connotations (despite the fact that some racist cranks have tried to hijack it).  When it comes out for various sports tournaments or St George's Day, it's not seen as anything negative; although the Daily Heil will inevitably invent stories about the Woke Mob trying to ban it.

 

The Union Flag is a bit trickier. Over the centuries, a lot of horrible shit has been carried out under that flag and, more recently, the Far Right have hijacked it. Good luck to the patriotic non-nutters trying to reclaim and detoxify it; they've got their work cut out.

[Poor Scouser T]

2 minutes ago, bossy said:

I’m aware there are many American flag shaggers, probably more per square mile than here. I just find it a bit laughable.

Like you I guess I find the whole idea of patriotism laughable. Glad I am shit at the game that shall not be mentioned. If I was a world class player I would be tabloid hate figure No1 when I refused to sing the anthem or if I could even be arsed playing for the national team. The idea of King and country means as much to me as going to fight for Tesco.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

19 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

As a contrast if I ran up a St Georges Cross in Scotland my windows would not last the day yet if I ran up a Saltire in England doubt anyone would be arsed.

Politically, Scotland and England have not enjoyed a harmonious partnership of equals.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

11 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

 

Talking about the St Georges Cross, Union Jack has far less baggage in the minds of people.

I think it's the other way round.

[Poor Scouser T]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I don't think the cross of St George has that many negative connotations (despite the fact that some racist cranks have tried to hijack it).  When it comes out for various sports tournaments or St George's Day, it's not seen as anything negative; although the Daily Heil will inevitably invent stories about the Woke Mob trying to ban it.

 

The Union Flag is a bit trickier. Over the centuries, a lot of horrible shit has been carried out under that flag and, more recently, the Far Right have hijacked it. Good luck to the patriotic non-nutters trying to reclaim and detoxify it; they've got their work cut out.

Don't know and I'm guessing but I am sure Welsh and Scottish regiments have been involved is some dodgy stuff over the centuries, just as much as the English. Although the Union Jack is the British flag it seems tied to English and the negative actions of the British are the guilt carried by the English rather than the other nations who don't seem to use the British flag. Bar sectarian nutters.

[Rico1304]

16 minutes ago, bossy said:

Is that near Marple? Think I’ve seen it.

Yes, bottom of Marple Bridge going to Compstall. 

[Rico1304]

13 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Like you I guess I find the whole idea of patriotism laughable. Glad I am shit at the game that shall not be mentioned. If I was a world class player I would be tabloid hate figure No1 when I refused to sing the anthem or if I could even be arsed playing for the national team. The idea of King and country means as much to me as going to fight for Tesco.

I think they’d hate you when your racism came out.  No need to worry about flags. 

[bossy]

2 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Yes, bottom of Marple Bridge going to Compstall. 

That’s it. Fair enough an ever changing flagpole. 

[TD_LFC]

14 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I think it's the other way round.

 

I think the reality is you're right, I think the perception is different.

 

Its easier, rightly or wrongly, to picture your standard St George Cross bearer  as a red top reading, beer swilling, out of shape moron banging on about foreigners 'coming over here stealing jobs and not learning the language' while they sit in an English themed pub eating a fry up in the Costa's where 'two beers por favor' is the height of culture.

 

Union Jack involves a bit more understanding.

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

39 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

 

it's probably more akin to the confederate flag.

It's interesting to see the change in the perception of that flag, from something harmless you might see at a Tom Petty gig, on a bourbon advert, on the Duke boys' car (the General Lee, for fuck's sake!) to something inherently racist, akin to the Swastika.

[TD_LFC]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's interesting to see the change in the perception of that flag, from something harmless you might see at a Tom Petty gig, on a bourbon advert, on the Duke boys' car (the General Lee, for fuck's sake!) to something inherently racist, akin to the Swastika.

 

It's probably been a bad few years for Tiki Torch salesman as well.

[Poor Scouser T]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's interesting to see the change in the perception of that flag, from something harmless you might see at a Tom Petty gig, on a bourbon advert, on the Duke boys' car (the General Lee, for fuck's sake!) to something inherently racist, akin to the Swastika.

Thats a very good comparison. That flag and the Stars and Stripes. Who gave the confederate flag the negative image? It surely was not the Southern States who use it as a flag of Independence and would not want it seen as pro slavery and white power. I suppose when the nutters start flying it, like the UJ SG Cross they take ownership.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

11 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Thats a very good comparison. That flag and the Stars and Stripes. Who gave the confederate flag the negative image? It surely was not the Southern States who use it as a flag of Independence and would not want it seen as pro slavery and white power. I suppose when the nutters start flying it, like the UJ SG Cross they take ownership.

I suspect that most people who used that "Rebel" symbol (like Tom Petty) didn't give much thought about who originally flew it and what those people were fighting to preserve.  Once they did stop to think, they probably thought "OK, maybe not".  Now the decent people have taken a step back, it serves as a good Cunt Identifier, because no non-cunts would fly it.

 

Still, it must be a headache for whoever now owns the rights to The Dukes of Hazzard.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/politics/tom-petty-confederate-flag-political-activism/index.html

[Rico1304]

48 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

 

I mentioned everything from trans rights to cost of living/living standards through brexit, immigration and the Ukraine war and you've decided to ignore everything else to focus it back down to a single issue, again....

 

You probably need to take a few days off or at the very least reset you youtube/twitter/google algorithm.

 

 

Oh I’m supposed to post how you want? Best if you send me the rules or just absolutely fuck off instead.  
 

One of those issues has had me accused of being Nazi adjacent.  Funnily enough I agree with the left on the rest so the abuse has been absolutely nonexistent. 

[TD_LFC]

16 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Oh I’m supposed to post how you want? Best if you send me the rules or just absolutely fuck off instead.  
 

One of those issues has had me accused of being Nazi adjacent.  Funnily enough I agree with the left on the rest so the abuse has been absolutely nonexistent. 

 

You have the same right to post whatever you want as I do.

[bossy]

28 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I suspect that most people who used that "Rebel" symbol (like Tom Petty) didn't give much thought about who originally flew it and what those people were fighting to preserve.  Once they did stop to think, they probably thought "OK, maybe not".  Now the decent people have taken a step back, it serves as a good Cunt Identifier, because no non-cunts would fly it.

 

Still, it must be a headache for whoever now owns the rights to The Dukes of Hazzard.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/politics/tom-petty-confederate-flag-political-activism/index.html

When I were a lad, it was merely a rebel flag for rock n rollers. Now it’s an object to shag. 

[Bjornebye]

Before we played r*ngers at Anfield, the police were going round a few Irish bars in town asking them to take their Ireland flags down from outside. Just incase any right wing divvies want to pretend that it’s only lefties that get offended by a flag.