Summer 2011

[Phoenix]

Its down to Blackburn...did they agree on the fee with United and if so did they sign and submit the appropriate documents?

 

If they didnt and Man United went ahead with the medical anyway (and without Blackburns consent) then indeed they are in violation of Premier League rules.

 

The medical is done before the transfer of the player and documents submitted.

 

Blackburn had given permission to speak to the player but what is in dispute is how the scum were aware of his release clause seeing that there was no mentioned of it beforehand. A case of tapping up.

[andrejwout]

Its amazing how quickly people want more and more, having had less. Toys being thrown out of prams! I agree with most posters that better value for money could be had than downing, for example. Yes, there are better foreigners out there, maybe. But we forget that foreigners are a risk.Will they settle or not etc? Anyone remember morientes and the chilean wonderkid that ended up a flop too...to name two. Kenny wantsa UK spine and is buying the younger talents here, or trying to. He is trying to stabilise the squad with decent, if not the best, available brit players,reputedly downing etc. We are not spurs when they got modric.

 

Most young wannabees wanna club playing in europe, but if they cant get that theyll always opt for the highlife of london over liverpool.(modric). people come to liverpool cos its been very successful and is at the time they sign......it isnt now. We are steadying the ship and may think we are still a massive force, but we simply are not,especially in the eyes of fickle foreign players. They only really think about us when we are in the CL on tv. We arent. You are only as good as yr last game, so to speak.

 

We arent even , at this point, realistically close to making cl footie next year.even with kenny's magic......imagine how a foreigner perceives it. We will find it very very hard to recruit the mata's of this world, especially when there is big interest from clubs that are currently more attractive. Suarez deal was shrewd, esp on the timing. HE wanted out and we came in when others were eating their turkey and sprouts. The summer is hunting season and we have a shotgun with one soggy cartridge compared to our peers of old. Its gonna take a while for kenny to get us moving and if downing etc represent that progression , bring it on.

[Wor Horse]

Evans is editor of The Times, Ogden writes for the Telegraph

 

Yeah that's been cleared up, thanks.

[Phoenix]

Its amazing how quickly people want more and more, having had less. Toys being thrown out of prams! I agree with most posters that better value for money could be had than downing, for example. Yes, there are better foreigners out there, maybe. But we forget that foreigners are a risk.Will they settle or not etc? Anyone remember morientes and the chilean wonderkid that ended up a flop too...to name two. Kenny wantsa UK spine and is buying the younger talents here, or trying to. He is trying to stabilise the squad with decent, if not the best, available brit players,reputedly downing etc. We are not spurs when they got modric.

 

Most young wannabees wanna club playing in europe, but if they cant get that theyll always opt for the highlife of london over liverpool.(modric). people come to liverpool cos its been very successful and is at the time they sign......it isnt now. We are steadying the ship and may think we are still a massive force, but we simply are not,especially in the eyes of fickle foreign players. They only really think about us when we are in the CL on tv. We arent. You are only as good as yr last game, so to speak.

 

We arent even , at this point, realistically close to making cl footie next year.even with kenny's magic......imagine how a foreigner perceives it. We will find it very very hard to recruit the mata's of this world, especially when there is big interest from clubs that are currently more attractive. Suarez deal was shrewd, esp on the timing. HE wanted out and we came in when others were eating their turkey and sprouts. The summer is hunting season and we have a shotgun with one soggy cartridge compared to our peers of old. Its gonna take a while for kenny to get us moving and if downing etc represent that progression , bring it on.

 

You are totally underplaying the value of the Liverpool name in europe.

 

You compare the likes of Morientes and Gonzales signed for arounf £6 million and on a budget when we have money to spend.

[andrejwout]

we were so keen on gonzo that we waited a fucking year...he was supposed to be the next big thing. Morientes was older but still a massive signing...just gone stale. Im not underestimating the name in europe at all...im just saying that we arent, at the moment, at the top of things and everyone knows it. We arent like BAyern that are the only club in germany with any real clout....and even when not dominant in europe are odds on to have a title in bundesliga. When you fall from grace in a league like the PL you are in trouble and we are, at the moment. We have no divine right, no matter how we feel, to think that top players must wanna come here. I know what the club is about and so do you, but others may look at history and decide, for now, we are not so attractive..........you are over egging what i wrote.

[Il Fenomeno]

Yes, there are better foreigners out there, maybe. But we forget that foreigners are a risk.Will they settle or not etc? Anyone remember morientes and the chilean wonderkid that ended up a flop too...to name two.

 

Every transfer is a risk. Compare Torres to Keane. Or compare Torres' transfer to Chelsea and Suarez transfer to Liverpool when he'd never played in the league before unlike Torres.

 

Which ones settled down quickly and which ones struggled to make an impact?

[ngogswilly]

Its amazing how quickly people want more and more, having had less. Toys being thrown out of prams! I agree with most posters that better value for money could be had than downing, for example. Yes, there are better foreigners out there, maybe. But we forget that foreigners are a risk.Will they settle or not etc? Anyone remember morientes and the chilean wonderkid that ended up a flop too...to name two. Kenny wantsa UK spine and is buying the younger talents here, or trying to. He is trying to stabilise the squad with decent, if not the best, available brit players,reputedly downing etc. We are not spurs when they got modric.

 

Most young wannabees wanna club playing in europe, but if they cant get that theyll always opt for the highlife of london over liverpool.(modric). people come to liverpool cos its been very successful and is at the time they sign......it isnt now. We are steadying the ship and may think we are still a massive force, but we simply are not,especially in the eyes of fickle foreign players. They only really think about us when we are in the CL on tv. We arent. You are only as good as yr last game, so to speak.

 

We arent even , at this point, realistically close to making cl footie next year.even with kenny's magic......imagine how a foreigner perceives it. We will find it very very hard to recruit the mata's of this world, especially when there is big interest from clubs that are currently more attractive. Suarez deal was shrewd, esp on the timing. HE wanted out and we came in when others were eating their turkey and sprouts. The summer is hunting season and we have a shotgun with one soggy cartridge compared to our peers of old. Its gonna take a while for kenny to get us moving and if downing etc represent that progression , bring it on.

 

Had that absolute fucking clown Hodgson not been appointed, as plenty had seen coming would be a disaster. We could have easily been in contention for 4th. Kennys results in the second half of the season proved that. If Dalglish had been given the job in the summer we would have been very close if not there.

 

Now obviously people can argue the merits of whether Kenny should have taken the job last summer with the two cunts in charge, that I can understand. But the point is, we are not that far off. We wont be winning the league next season IMO, but we can make the CL again.

 

Downing will improve us, if Adam comes in so we will he. Another centre half like Dann will also improve us, but for me the key is basically signing another match winner. Someone who can do what Suarez does, scare the absolute fuck out of the opposition and turn a game on its head in the space of a few seconds.

 

We do that we'll finish in the top 4. I'll bet my Labrador on it. And I fucking love my Labrador.

 

As for attracting players, I think we'll all be surprised at who we manager to bring in. As long as we don't piss all the money away overspending on others, I think we'll definitely be able to bring in another top player.

[andrejwout]

yes but he was appointed ......its not a case of what ifs,,......but facts. Noone cares about our travails at all.....only we do. As for every transfer is a risk....yes true.but generally we have always been worried when buying foreign , that they may not make it in the prem or might take a long time to. Downing doesnt present that prob, for example. Kenny is thinking logically, if not a bit too cautiously.

[Red Phoenix]

A lot of players around europe will be well aware of what we're trying to do here, we should still be able to sign some of the best around. What's happening with us kind of reminds me of when AC Milan slipped for a while. We're a big club and will be back at it, and quite a few players will realise we've got something decent going on here if we can get the few signings we need.

 

Even our league position at the end of the season doesn't really reflect how things are with Kenny coming in so far through it, so we might be alright. It's just a case of having patience and not going mental when there's over a month and a half before the window closes.

[ngogswilly]

A lot of players around europe will be well aware of what we're trying to do here, we should still be able to sign some of the best around. What's happening with us kind of reminds me of when AC Milan slipped for a while. We're a big club and will be back at it, and quite a few players will realise we've got something decent going on here if we can get the few signings we need.

 

Thats my line of thinking, back in December I thought fucking hell we're in trouble here we'll never attract another top class talent as long as I live.

 

Then the King returned and the second half of the season was a joy to behold at times, with some brilliant results thrown in there, plenty of players will have taken note of that.

 

Without doubt, no CL football is a big blow and it makes life more difficult when trying to attract top players. But by no means impossible. It just means the Commoli and Kenny will have to work damn hard to get players in. And I'm hoping they can do that to bring one more real top quality player in.

[Phoenix]

yes but he was appointed ......its not a case of what ifs,,......but facts. Noone cares about our travails at all.....only we do. As for every transfer is a risk....yes true.but generally we have always been worried when buying foreign , that they may not make it in the prem or might take a long time to. Downing doesnt present that prob, for example. Kenny is thinking logically, if not a bit too cautiously.

 

What like Robbie Keane? Jermaine Pennant ?

[andrejwout]

oh behave.......pennat was always crap and we all knew it..keane was never played properly, wanted by the manager and it fell apart. Mostly, proven pl players are more expensive but safer bets. Need i list all the foreign flops that were good players maybe or had potential...but didnt work out in england. Come on

[Phoenix]

oh behave.......pennat was always crap and we all knew it..keane was never played properly, wanted by the manager and it fell apart. Mostly, proven pl players are more expensive but safer bets. Need i list all the foreign flops that were good players maybe or had potential...but didnt work out in england. Come on

 

Keane was crap...but that is going off on a tangent.

 

Towards the top end of the market the difference in having to adapt likely to fail is negligible. Thats the level of money we are looking to spend.

[andrejwout]

well actually i kind of agree..though jermaine was uber shite before he arrived, despite the great assist stats. Keane i hated before, during and now dont care cos he has proen he was always shite..and those celebrations were enough to get him beheaded

[Wor Horse]

Right this thread is getting mongy, Kenny needs to hurry up and stick a bid in for someone so we've got something else to talk about.

[Redshadow]

Horus - Just to say sorry re Earlier and the Skrtel, Dann quotes etc - I Think my point came across rather wrong/garbled earlier as I was chasing an excitable 2 year old around my living room inbetween typing it so NO surprises there then!!!

 

Anyway the Gist of what I said was? That you had invited someone else earlier to point out One post you had made that could be called deluded/wrong or something like that? And I pointed out Where you said both "we need better than Downing to break back into the top 4" & "Also Dann is no better than Skrtel and Clichy can be a bit of a liability".

 

I then detailed Why I thought that particular view was in error as being that yes we may need better than Downing Longterm But for now? I believe he could serve a purpose for us (as Robertson once did for Forest and Marwood for Arsenal) in helping to provide that all-important element of title winning sides; BALANCE; Consider, Kenny no doubt has a plan now and If Downing fits into that as part of a Team whose output is Far more than all it's individual players/parts? Then I'd be more than happy to have him here ahead of other more 'stellar' names - I used Kenny's 1995 Blackburn side as an example of that when compared to our 1988 Title winners? Saying that whilst the Blackburn side was nothing like as talented individually as the '88 team was? They were Very efficient and If we should win the title again under Kenny? Then because we badly need a title now before developing another such '88 side? I suspect the Blackburn model will be the one we follow and Downing Might just fit into that.

 

As to the second point re "Dann being no better than Skrtel" and Clichy being "A bit of a liability"? I said that firstly since Dann and Skrtel were only Both regulars 2 seasons ago? (2009/2010 - Dann was injured badly last year) if you Compare their respective Team's Performances? Dann comes off rather the better since He had a Major part in Birmingham winning or not losing in something like 16 matches between winter '09 and early '10 & his absence? Was no doubt a Huge part in them going down this time around; As to Clichy? I said he Might benefit greatly from a more 'Balanced' manager who considers attack and defence like Kenny rather than one wedded Only to style &/or attacking football ala Wenger.

 

Anyway - THOSE were the points I thought might provide good refutations to your/the earlier statment (If it was yours - If Not? I apologise and withdraw them) and I Tried to present them thus - If me chasing my little lad around the living room playing "Woo, Ghostie" (with a white sheet over my head as a Ghost what else?) and "Roar!!" whilst writing that led me to be unduly tempramental & waspish whilst doing everything at Once? Then again, I may only proffer my apologies Horus. I hope no offence was taken. Hope you make something Better of my writing Thistime around mate LOL. Oh well, good luck reading the hieroglyphics :) Until next we joust then My Friend.................

Edited June 12, 2011 by Redshadow

[Redshadow]

Andrejwout? "We are not spurs when they got modric." No we're not but we Are (and are in a Far better position than) Liverpool FC ourselves; You remember? Back when We got Alonso - Well, suffice to say If another such came along Now? I think we'd procure Them to & be way ahead of Spurs in doing so, should that become necessary. But seriously - Spurs? What a terrible example to compare us to. Listen, We always have had and Will always have more than them in Every department when it comes to Attracting players? We're far, Far ahead of them - Several miles out in front in fact whatever the league positions. You don't believe me? Look at Suarez in January and Our dealings as compared to them now in the current window; Like I said? We're in another Galaxy to Spurs when it comes to Attracting Players - And Long Will it remain so.........

Edited June 12, 2011 by Redshadow

[Chinandeler Bong]

Andrejwout? "We are not spurs when they got modric." No we're not but we Are (and are in a Far better position than) Liverpool FC ourselves; You remember? Back when We got Alonso - Well, suffice to say If another such came along Now? I think we'd procure Them to & be way ahead of Spurs in doing so, should that become necessary. But seriously - Spurs? What a terrible example to compare us to. Listen, We always have had and Will always have more than them in Every department when it comes to Attracting players? We're far, Far ahead of them - Several miles out in front in fact whatever the league positions. You don't believe me? Look at Suarez in January and Our dealings as compared to them now in the current window; Like I said? We're in another Galaxy to Spurs when it comes to Attracting Players - And Long Will it remain so.........

 

Why are you bolding random words ?

[Redshadow]

Nathanzx? "utter prick seems to relish telling us all they have beaten us to a couple of targets, has also made life difficult for jones should the deal fall through by publically stating he personally prefers man u to liverpool";

 

Really? Despite the "Mutual transfer targets" crap in that toilet pape.....ahem 'article'? We Never bid a Thing for Ashley Young - He may have been mentioned in Dispatches but did we ever Bid for him? No- So I think That? is the Press mischief making and Trying (on behalf of their drunken hero from Govan no doubt) to make the New, decisive & Powerful Liverpool seem as weak and indecisive in the Transfer Market as it's stumbling, laughing stock of a predecessor.

 

What's more? I'll bet those vultures in the media? just Wish it was still that way regarding a truly pathetic Liverpool in the Transfer Market as well no? Much easier for their OT Idols that way isn't it? I mean how Dare we Ruin their idol's Free run at the Best young English talent and gazump Him as he's Trying to do to Us and Arsenal amongst others - The sheer Cheek & effrontery of it all? Just beggars belief - This is England and we all Know what happens in Football (how it's done) here don't we? Erm No, Not now we don't. Further on this? Consider a couple of old proverbs? "Those who know don't talk - Those who Talk? Don't know" and "empty vessels make the most noise."

 

Well in view of These sayings? I think the Manc's noise and squealing via their media reprsentatives at this Vicious, unprovoked & Brutal assault on their position on Our perch? (You can almost Smell the "how dare they?"/Regicide attitudes re us & them in the offices of Fleet Street even now yes?) Well, That shrill noise? Says All you need to know. They're used to things being done Their way in English football, those from Manchester. They Don't like all these new and unwelcome developments and almost co-ordinated attacks on them from the likes of Liverpool and Blackburn - Not One bit and they're worried to I think as whatever else they might have thought? They did Not expect all this;

 

Yes, they're Very worried about us and just what might happen now as they suddenly reel from all this; Along with the good hard shafting the Glazers are Still giving them by the year; They feel this new uncertain fear of us now I think - They don't know What we're going to do next & we apparently now have the power to take them on and hurt them Directly in certain places; This Clearly concerns them a lot; Rightly so as well I say, since there's a Lot more to come from this particular quarter of Merseyside - None of it good for them - We've hardly even Started yet...............

 

NB Chinadeler Bong? Better?

Edited June 12, 2011 by Redshadow

[Unrighteous]

Holy shit... It's like a Avalanche of Red Shadow words.

[Redshadow]

Scouse Missionary? "Mark Ogden is reputedly a United fan. He's just doing his bit."

 

Yes, I'll Bet he's doing his damn bit - All the fans of that piece of scum so-called team seem to 'do' their bit and don't get me Started on their 'fans' in the media and the game. Fans 'threatening' Imogen Thomas and a TWO year old (Her Nephew) FFS because of Daring to unsettle the pathetic excuse for a central midfielder that is Giggs in a final he was always going to be eviscerated in - In a footballing sense anyway; Them going around Trying to sign who they LIKE for knockdown prices ala the Jones controversy; More death threats from the pondlife who support them for someone who DARED to argue with Shrek on Twitter;

 

Then you have A Crystal Palace fan killed in '95 for arguing with them outside Villa Park; Heaven Knows How many of OUR fans charged & attacked outside OT year in, year out with the media not interested in a word on it (in stark contrast to the FA Cup at our place in '06). Don't forget also, the craven surrenders of teams managed by Fergie's friends and ex-employees at OT Year in, year out. the OWNER of Wigan who regularly donate to the "3 points to United" charity twice a season saying how Great it would be for them to win the league before they play?..........Wigan back in 2008 (as well as Martinez saying last year in support of Rafa' how Fergie's influence is unhealthy - Hmm, wonder what happened to THAT attitude? No doubt vanished after a quick word from his owner and certainly before EITHER of the 5 - 0 defeats they suffered the season before last).

 

There's also don't forget Papers coming out with news of so-called swoops BEFORE the above mentioned transfer shenanigans is completed (how did They know if the deal was illegal/not done yet?), unsettling rivals best players For them but NEVER the reversel; The refereeing bias year in, year out; 'Fergie' time, the Mccarthy elbow, the joke of a penalty that gave them it at Blackburn this year (and the absence of one Or a red-card for Scholes in '08, a penalty Outside the box v us last March) being just a Few examples of such pathetic double standards. Double standards also proven by the amount of 'Sirs' at that club whilst Liverpool's achievements and claims to such for Infinitely more deserving men in Bob or Kenny? Are All regularly brushed aside or quietly placed under the carpet until it coincides with something They've done anyway (19 titles? Didn't hear much about That until now did we? Before it was 12 Premier Leagues for them to our none yet NOW? It's 19 - 18; Wonder why That sudden change came about then?).

 

Then there's the unholy obsession with money that ultimately Dominates just Who wins this league now and that's been in place since the First PL season (but not before). You know if I didn't know better? I'd say the league was set up with the Sole purpose of Them winning it or nearly doing so each year just Because of the money they earn certain parties. Take all That and it's just the TIP of the Iceberg - believe me - But take All of it? And can you honestly, Really, hand on heart say theres No corruption in English football? I can't. Remember - Back in 2006, something like this WAS proven in Italy and there? All it took was mobile phones - Now and Here? Those Phones are Five years more advanced and that much harder to prove things with also? Consider All the money at stake on Who wins the PL each year - Still think it's Not corrupt? I don't and I bet one day this will be proven as well - Sorry, one day when it's In someone's interests - It Will be proven, but not before. A sad indictment of football today but ther'es no doubt that's the way it is or to put it another way? In English Football? There's one law FOR United and? One law for the rest - Say no more...............

 

NB: Maybe that banner from back in '03? "Don't Bomb Iraq - Nuke Manchester" had the right idea After all and if it catches Him in the blast? All the better. Oh well, I can but dream yes? He surely hasn't got THAT long left there now anyway - All the better if WE are the ones to replace them as he goes as They once did us (no doubt much to his fury if we DO) Turn and turn about...........

 

NBB: Unrighteous? I Did warn you what would happen If I didn't emphasise words in places; Know why I do it NOW? I rest my case............

Edited June 12, 2011 by Redshadow

[Redshadow]

Andrewjout? "We arent even , at this point, realistically close to making cl footie next year"

 

Another load of utter rubbish - Maybe with Woy here what you say would have merit but with Kenny? Never mind the fact we had The best record against the top 4 Again last season after 08/09 (making 2 out of the last 3 seasons that was true) or that Kenny had us SECOND in the form table until the final 2 games of the campaign behind only?......Them. Well, I think those two facts rather torpedo your sad excuse for an 'argument' below the waterline and sink it stone dead no? And there's something else to.

 

This is something I think you're forgetting also and is? The fact that This team has at it's core? Experience of Qualifying for (and in some cases Winning) The CL over EIGHT of the past 10 seasons. So to say it's "not close to qualifying"? Well, suffice to say, I've never Heard such complete & utter rubbish in my entire life!!! In fact further to this? And Given proper reinforcements in the right positions and enough strength in depth to get us back even to where we were in 08/09? I can confidently state now that not only Will we qualify for the CL next year but also? That we'll do it in style.........

 

NB Incidentally Andrew? Would it surprise you to know that Bayern went Without so much as a Bundesliga title OR European Football sometimes throughout parts of the 90's? It's not just HERE that such falls are hard to recover from you know........

 

NNB And as to being "in trouble" when you fall from grace in the PL? Didn't bother Chelsea pre-Abramovich did it? They just became the richest club on the planet whilst Blackburn in the early 90's? Went from the second division to THE top in about 4 seasons so not Quite the chasm you're making out IS it?

Edited June 12, 2011 by Redshadow

[Redshadow]

Andrewjout? So sorry to take issue with you once more but "Pennant was always crap"? Not in 06/07 he wasn't - Scored a couple of goals (including an Exocet MISSILE to help beat Mourinho's Chelsea under Rafa' for the first time) and Completely Roasted Ashley Cole at Anfield in the CL Semi-Final to help us on our way to Athens.

 

Also, IN said final? Who was the man of the Match? None other than said Winger is who - You don't do That without SOME talent as talentless duds? Just do Not become men of the match in CL Finals Do they? No Pennant himself in talent terms? Wasn't at fault - His Attitude mind? Well if you'd mentioned that? I might just have agreed with you as it certainly stank and then some. Yes, Pennant was talented enough for our club that year after he came to us but his attitude? Well, that was another matter entirely............

 

NB: Phoenix? You said "Towards the top end of the market the difference in having to adapt likely to fail is negligible. Thats the level of money we are looking to spend." Do you mean that towards the top end of the market - It doesn't Matter WHERE you buy from? They are FAR more likely to adapt? If so I agree but for every Suarez, Pires, Cristiano Ronaldo etc? There is a Veron, Forlan or a Voronin.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Redshadow

[mathaluk]

I don't normally post, but I am a long time lurker. Just checked my info and 40 posts since 2003, is that some sort of lurking record??

 

But the negativity on this thread is unbelievable. People moaning and crying like spoilt children. To suggest that we will only be challenging for 5th/6th with spurs if we get our reported targets is just plain stupid.

 

We finished 6th last season, a season which included the comical genius of hodgson, the club been ripped apart and having to go to the high court for us to finally rid ourselves of cancer and aids, the disruption (although positive) of the take over and managerial change, the el cunto transfer saga and then then the long term injuries to carra, gerrard, agger etc. Taking all this into account we still finished 6th, and we had a very outside chance of 4th with 5 games to go.

 

If you just removed all of this disruption and the dalglish/clarke factor for a full season on our current squad we would surely be 9-12 pts better off?? Add to this all of our reported targets been bought our team/squad WILL be better and you could maybe argue the 9/12 pts could easily be around the 18-20 pts mark?

 

The point I am making is we will be far better next season even without any signings due to Dalglish, no disruptions, and the very positive atmosphere around then club. Take into account 5-6 signings of our known targets and I honestly believe we will be very strong challengers for champs lge and we could maybe even push further.

[Scrump]

Didn't one of the decent journos say yesterday we'd have some more news today? Not seen anything so far.