Benitez caution killing Liverpool's bid for title

[Barrington Womble]

Funny isnt it, he has this image as a cuatious coach, yet in the league derby ,he went 4-4-2 and picked an attacking line up and again yesterday, he dropped Kuyt, put Benny and Babel in and he still gets criticised.

 

We then concede an awful goal, looking ofr a 2nd, when were caught in possesion, 6, ye 6 Liverpool players were infront of the ball carrier, who was half way inside the opposition half. They intercepted, strode forward and as we were out of position, Lucas, who had an otherwise decent game, makes an awful challenge and 1-1 it is.

Torres was shite, but why take Gerrard off ?

 

Another draw arrrrghhhh.

 

You must have cut and pasted this onto every thread. I've been trying not to bite, but it's doing my head in. We "controlled" that game last night, without ever looking likely to win it. We then got the goal and nothing changed. We continued to control the match, Wigan could barely get out of their half. Rafa then chose to take Torres off and replace him with a midfield player. Yes he moved Babel into the strikers role, but he's rubbish at it. He chose not to bring on Keane, he chose not to put on Kuyt (who is also poor at the lone forward thing, but is better than babel). From that point in the game we no longer controlled the game. We invited them on, much in the same way we did last week against everton. The side lost it's shape because of Rafa's change, players were panicking because we were effectively playing 4-6-0 - that's why we were in the mess to concede the pen. It's why the same happened last week. I knew from the moment Torres went off for Reira they would score.

[The Dude Abides]

Benitez said in his post match interview that Torres was tired, not injured. He also said that's why he took Gerrard off. As if five minutes was going to make a lot of difference.

 

Its when injuries start to happen mate, when players are looking fatigued, take a look at Torres this season. And we were looking very very tired out there.

[The Dude Abides]

if only we'd actually done that in the build up to the pen eh?

 

Thats what is puzzling me at this stage. We're not exactly letting ourselves go when attacking, but we've been all over the fucking shop defensively too. I've got no problem with us trying to close out a game, but you can only do that by being organized defensively, something we usually always are under Rafa, not lately though. Being cynical, it could be made look like the dressing room are losing faith as quickly as most of us fans.

[redrosetints]

It's not an image, he's one of the most cautious coaches in Europe, and well known for it. He was the same in Spain, albeit with better players.

It was the same last night, players are reticent to bomb forward in fear of leaving their defensive zone, and instead look for a safe pass to keep the 'control' and the momentum breaks down. It's so predictable and easy to defend.

 

We're certainly capable of playing good football, but when it clicks like the Newcastle game it tends to be more mechanically precise than expansive.

 

More often that not, though, the system isn't working we lack the individual flair to create anything and become very disjointed.

 

That's exactly what we did do last night, in the run up to their goal. We left our zones bombed forward and let one in at the back. 5 players strung across their 18 yd line, one square of the ball carrier all 7 inside their half of their half. We misplaced a pass and concede.

 

People can argue were negative, but if you go 1-0 up as we have done in our last two games, we SHOULD, be closing out these games. We shouldnt be losing goals in the last 10 minute of games, it goes against all Rafa and any footie manager holds dear.

 

Rafas game is all about pass and move, possession football, that was his Valencia model, the down side, is a lack of invention and wit on occasion, but keeping hold of teh ball and not letting the opposition score is it's bread and butter, so once were 1-0 we should be keeping it, by playing simple, possesion, pass and move on the deck footie.

 

So don't tell me were not top due to his negativity, had we, as a team, done what we normally do with our eyes closed, kept the ball and not conceeded, we'd be 4 points better off and still top.

 

People say Rafas negative, King Kenny, who people are suggesting would have done differently, was in the Echo the other day, talking about the 4-4 game and his leaving, intersting article,

 

here is the article;

 

Kenny Dalglish: I was waiting to be asked back to Liverpool - Liverpool Echo.co.uk

 

In it he says of the 4-4 game ;

 

"“After we took the lead for the final time I was standing on the touchline and I knew that I had to make a change to shore things up at the back.

 

“I could see what had to be done and what would happen if I didn’t do it, but I didn’t act on what I knew I had to do. That was the moment I knew."

 

So even King Kenny, knew he SHOULD have changed it it keep the win. We totally dominated last night, yet in the second half we lost control of the game and eventually conceded.

 

If your going to be pissed off at the last two League games, be pissed off cos we didnt close out the games, take the 6 points and remain top, DONT, criticise the manager, take it up with the players for losing their composure and bombing on.

 

When we dont break down teams at home, that is down, in part to the way we play, its Rafas head on the line, fair call, he has to take the flak.

 

But when we take a lead and fail to close the game out, conceeding in the last 10 minutes, point the finger at the players, who failed to control the game, keep possession and close out the game and cost us 4 points.

[redrosetints]

You must have cut and pasted this onto every thread. I've been trying not to bite, but it's doing my head in. We "controlled" that game last night, without ever looking likely to win it. We then got the goal and nothing changed. We continued to control the match, Wigan could barely get out of their half. Rafa then chose to take Torres off and replace him with a midfield player. Yes he moved Babel into the strikers role, but he's rubbish at it. He chose not to bring on Keane, he chose not to put on Kuyt (who is also poor at the lone forward thing, but is better than babel). From that point in the game we no longer controlled the game. We invited them on, much in the same way we did last week against everton. The side lost it's shape because of Rafa's change, players were panicking because we were effectively playing 4-6-0 - that's why we were in the mess to concede the pen. It's why the same happened last week. I knew from the moment Torres went off for Reira they would score.

 

The players panicked, exactly, they didnt do what they should. That change certainly didnt make 7 of them bomb forward like schoolkids. Those changes didnt make us lose our heads against Everton.

 

We know how to control a game, had we done so for 10 more minutes in each game, we'd be top. The players didnt, not because they were negative, but because they mentally froze and forgot their roles.

 

It can't be Rafas fault when we dont break teams down and when we fail at the back. When we dont break teams down, it does come down to Rafas thinking, I accept that, but when we throw leads away, thats down to the players.

 

I might have put it on a few threads, but if people continue to simply blame Rafa for world poverty and the financial crisis,then Im going to suggest they wake up and smell the coffee.

[Barrington Womble]

The players panicked, exactly, they didnt do what they should. That change certainly didnt make 7 of them bomb forward like schoolkids. Those changes didnt make us lose our heads against Everton.

 

We know how to control a game, had we done so for 10 more minutes in each game, we'd be top. The players didnt, not because they were negative, but because they mentally froze and forgot their roles.

 

It can't be Rafas fault when we dont break teams down and when we fail at the back. When we dont break teams down, it does come down to Rafas thinking, I accept that, but when we throw leads away, thats down to the players.

 

I might have put it on a few threads, but if people continue to simply blame Rafa for world poverty and the financial crisis,then Im going to suggest they wake up and smell the coffee.

 

You think it made no difference we didn't have a proper attacker on the pitch? It allowed them back in because the players didn't have a fucking clue what was being asked of them and there was nobody leading the line. That's why they paniced, because the team because a shambles because of Rafa's changes.

[Red Paul]

Again, finding myself totally agreeing with Mr tints.

[WaltonRed]

People need to listen to Barry Wom, when a good solid red starts questioning the manager its time to listen.

[Guest simon]

I know it sound crazy but i think Torres being back is the reason we are doing so shite. Because we have such a great player on the pitch no one other than Gerrard. We are doing what the Manc bastards did with Ronaldo we are relying on Torres and Gerrard to much and it doesn't help when Rafa is warning everyone of the lethal Gerrard and Torres combination.

When Torres was injured our player's had fight in them might sound crazy but IMO its true. Im not saying drop Torres i'm just saying its a Team game and we need to stop relying on our two best players to always pull us out of the shit because it ain't gonna happen.

[redrosetints]

You think it made no difference we didn't have a proper attacker on the pitch? It allowed them back in because the players didn't have a fucking clue what was being asked of them and there was nobody leading the line. That's why they paniced, because the team because a shambles because of Rafa's changes.

 

Rafa didnt ask them to bomb forward and play 3-2-5 did he ?

 

Thats my point, you dont need an attacker on the pitch to enable you to keep your shape and play possesion football.

 

I dont agree with alot you post Barry, but I know its well thought out and honest. On this occasion though, you're just ignoring the facts.

 

the players lost their heads, thats not down to Rafa.

[Barrington Womble]

Rafa didnt ask them to bomb forward and play 3-2-5 did he ?

 

Thats my point, you dont need an attacker on the pitch to enable you to keep your shape and play possesion football.

 

I dont agree with alot you post Barry, but I know its well thought out and honest. On this occasion though, you're just ignoring the facts.

 

the players lost their heads, thats not down to Rafa.

 

It wasn't 3-2-5 though was it? Some player just chose to go forwad - it's what they're supposed to do. I've not watched a re-run and to be honest, I don't want to. I'll be stearing clear of football for a few days. The problem we were all over the place is because Rafa makes changes the players don't understand what he's on about. It happens all the time - often at a game you can see them shouting at each other and nobody has a clue where anyone else should be. In the situation there last night, nobody knew where they should be and we were hardly bombing everywhere, in fact we never do that. And as Dave U pointed out on the other thread, they hadn't over run us at the back and if everyone was back Lucas would have done just the same.

[Code]

Shots on target:

1. Chelsea - 155

2. Man Utd - 144

3. Arsenal - 128

5. Liverpool - 118

11. Aston Villa - 94

 

Shot accuracy:

1. Man Utd - 48%

4. Arsenal - 44%

4. Chelsea - 44%

4. Aston Villa - 44%

17. Liverpool - 38% , together with Stoke and West Brom and only Wigan below us with 37%.

 

Poor finishing from poor strikers does also play its part.

[redrosetints]

It wasn't 3-2-5 though was it? Some player just chose to go forwad - it's what they're supposed to do. I've not watched a re-run and to be honest, I don't want to. I'll be stearing clear of football for a few days. The problem we were all over the place is because Rafa makes changes the players don't understand what he's on about. It happens all the time - often at a game you can see them shouting at each other and nobody has a clue where anyone else should be. In the situation there last night, nobody knew where they should be and we were hardly bombing everywhere, in fact we never do that. And as Dave U pointed out on the other thread, they hadn't over run us at the back and if everyone was back Lucas would have done just the same.

 

It was 3-2-5, watch it !

 

Oh so you wont watch it, how fucking arrogant are you ? If you're so fuckin sure watch it, just to please yourself and massage your own ego on how right you are.

 

When Masch lost possession it was 3-2-5, with the five on their 18yd line. We did get numbers back, but they had to run 70 yards to get back and if you know anything about footie, which you obviously do, then you'd know it far easier to attack a ball in front of you, than defend one behind you.

 

Given the accusation is of Rafa being a shite house and being negative and defensive, then it matters not how many got back, or who made a mistake, what matters is that with 84 minutes gone, having not won in ages, we didnt sit back with 11 men behind the ball, as you are saying, we pushed 5 players into their box and had 3 in our half. In at least 10 attacks last night, more than 4 red shirts were in their box.

 

So if you want to accuse Rafa of something, do it, but if you're wrong admit it.

 

i accused you of having an agenda before, perhaps I was wrong then, but if you can't see that we were all out attacking at the time then you are deluding yourself just to suit an agenda.

 

So what is it Bazza, Agenda or not ?

[Major Tom]

It was 3-2-5, watch it !

 

Oh so you wont watch it, how fucking arrogant are you ? If you're so fuckin sure watch it, just to please yourself and massage your own ego on how right you are.

 

When Masch lost possession it was 3-2-5, with the five on their 18yd line. We did get numbers back, but they had to run 70 yards to get back and if you know anything about footie, which you obviously do, then you'd know it far easier to attack a ball in front of you, than defend one behind you.

 

Given the accusation is of Rafa being a shite house and being negative and defensive, then it matters not how many got back, or who made a mistake, what matters is that with 84 minutes gone, having not won in ages, we didnt sit back with 11 men behind the ball, as you are saying, we pushed 5 players into their box and had 3 in our half. In at least 10 attacks last night, more than 4 red shirts were in their box.

 

So if you want to accuse Rafa of something, do it, but if you're wrong admit it.

 

i accused you of having an agenda before, perhaps I was wrong then, but if you can't see that we were all out attacking at the time then you are deluding yourself just to suit an agenda.

 

So what is it Bazza, Agenda or not ?

 

Given that you are intent on stressing this point (quite a few times so far!), are you of the opinion Rafa is not a negative manager?

[Barrington Womble]

It was 3-2-5, watch it !

 

Oh so you wont watch it, how fucking arrogant are you ? If you're so fuckin sure watch it, just to please yourself and massage your own ego on how right you are.

 

When Masch lost possession it was 3-2-5, with the five on their 18yd line. We did get numbers back, but they had to run 70 yards to get back and if you know anything about footie, which you obviously do, then you'd know it far easier to attack a ball in front of you, than defend one behind you.

 

Given the accusation is of Rafa being a shite house and being negative and defensive, then it matters not how many got back, or who made a mistake, what matters is that with 84 minutes gone, having not won in ages, we didnt sit back with 11 men behind the ball, as you are saying, we pushed 5 players into their box and had 3 in our half. In at least 10 attacks last night, more than 4 red shirts were in their box.

 

So if you want to accuse Rafa of something, do it, but if you're wrong admit it.

 

i accused you of having an agenda before, perhaps I was wrong then, but if you can't see that we were all out attacking at the time then you are deluding yourself just to suit an agenda.

 

So what is it Bazza, Agenda or not ?

 

do you know anything about football? just because 5 players found themselves in attacking positions does not make it 3-2-5, it's why I don't need to watch it again, because I don't give a fuck. I watched the game and we weren't playing that formation at that time. If some players got out of positions it doesn't make it some new super duper attacking formation, it's just a mistake, it's players fucking being somewhere they weren't supposed to be, a mistake just as lucas made for the pen, as we did defending the set plays against everton last week. We weren't playing an attacking formation, we were playing a virtual 4-6-0. If some players got confused while playing that system and don't know when to break or not, I don't blame them because it never works and I would have hoped Rafa had learnt that by now.

 

I have one agenda and it's watching Liverpool win - I couldn't give 2 shits who the manager is when we achieve it, Rafa, Roy, Kenny, Houllier - who cares as long as we win? We don't seem to be doing that very often, so it might get your back up becasue it leaves you clutching at straws to defend the indefensible and ignore how we have played for a whole season then run through some mad finger pointing exercise when some players got caught out of position playing a system they don't understand. It wasn't 3-2-5 formation, we might have had 5 players in attacking position, but I can bet anything you like they weren't supposed to be there.

[Mendoza]

I know it sound crazy but i think Torres being back is the reason we are doing so shite. Because we have such a great player on the pitch no one other than Gerrard. We are doing what the Manc bastards did with Ronaldo we are relying on Torres and Gerrard to much and it doesn't help when Rafa is warning everyone of the lethal Gerrard and Torres combination.

When Torres was injured our player's had fight in them might sound crazy but IMO its true. Im not saying drop Torres i'm just saying its a Team game and we need to stop relying on our two best players to always pull us out of the shit because it ain't gonna happen.

 

 

Gerrard pulls us out of the shit all the time. We'd be 6th or 7th without his contributions this season.

[redrosetints]

Given that you are intent on stressing this point (quite a few times so far!), are you of the opinion Rafa is not a negative manager?

 

The point I was stressing (and am I stressed) was that to suggest we lost the lead last night, due to sitting back, is factually incorrect.

 

Generally, I dont think Rafa is as negative as some make out, he's not a pure counter attacker like Jose or Ged were. But that said, he's clearly not as attack minded as Fergie or Wenger. Rafa is about controlling the ball and then dictating the tempo, which can be either negative or attacking.

 

But I think its too easy to say a manager is negative or positive, like Paisley said, its not short or long ball but the right ball. Sometimes, Rafa is right to be negative, sometimes he's not and I agree with many who think there are times in games when we need to up the ante and go for it.

 

That said, in both our last two league games we dropped points because we lost a lead. In those cases, when 1-0 up with less than ten to play, we should be closing out a game, thats not being negative, thats being professional. Our problem isnt possession, its creating chances against tight defences. Therefore, running out the clock by dictating play in both games should have been straightforward and the job in hand.

 

4 more points would also have us still top.

[redrosetints]

do you know anything about football? just because 5 players found themselves in attacking positions does not make it 3-2-5, it's why I don't need to watch it again, because I don't give a fuck. I watched the game and we weren't playing that formation at that time. If some players got out of positions it doesn't make it some new super duper attacking formation, it's just a mistake, it's players fucking being somewhere they weren't supposed to be, a mistake just as lucas made for the pen, as we did defending the set plays against everton last week. We weren't playing an attacking formation, we were playing a virtual 4-6-0. If some players got confused while playing that system and don't know when to break or not, I don't blame them because it never works and I would have hoped Rafa had learnt that by now.

 

I have one agenda and it's watching Liverpool win - I couldn't give 2 shits who the manager is when we achieve it, Rafa, Roy, Kenny, Houllier - who cares as long as we win? We don't seem to be doing that very often, so it might get your back up becasue it leaves you clutching at straws to defend the indefensible and ignore how we have played for a whole season then run through some mad finger pointing exercise when some players got caught out of position playing a system they don't understand. It wasn't 3-2-5 formation, we might have had 5 players in attacking position, but I can bet anything you like they weren't supposed to be there.

 

Right, cos if they hadnt been there, we'd not have conceeded the goal. Thats my point, Rafa didnt want 5 men up, I didnt want 5 men up i wanted a win and clearly, having just 3 men back and 5 in their penalty area isnt a very clever way of keeping a 1-0, especailly when you havent won for a month.

 

I didnt say we were playing a 3-2-5 formation, I said thats where our players were on the pitch when they intercepted and broke forward. I agree, the players were out of position and therefore it was the players fault we f'd up last night and IMHO, vs Everton in the league game. But clearly, however you look at it, it wasnt Rafas. To blame Rafa for confusing the players is just agenda driven baz and you know it.

 

The point of all this is, that when we conceeded both goals, we didnt have 11 men behind the ball and we werent sitting on a lead only to throw it away as Ive seen repeated on this and many other forums today.

 

Its factually incorrect.

[Royal Family]

Shots on target:

1. Chelsea - 155

2. Man Utd - 144

3. Arsenal - 128

5. Liverpool - 118

11. Aston Villa - 94

 

Shot accuracy:

1. Man Utd - 48%

4. Arsenal - 44%

4. Chelsea - 44%

4. Aston Villa - 44%

17. Liverpool - 38% , together with Stoke and West Brom and only Wigan below us with 37%.

 

Poor finishing from poor strikers does also play its part.

 

 

What would that figure be without Keane's contributions (10% accuracy a few weeks ago!) this season, mind? :no

[stringvest]

It was 3-2-5, watch it !

 

Oh so you wont watch it, how fucking arrogant are you ? If you're so fuckin sure watch it, just to please yourself and massage your own ego on how right you are.

 

When Masch lost possession it was 3-2-5, with the five on their 18yd line. We did get numbers back, but they had to run 70 yards to get back and if you know anything about footie, which you obviously do, then you'd know it far easier to attack a ball in front of you, than defend one behind you.

 

Given the accusation is of Rafa being a shite house and being negative and defensive, then it matters not how many got back, or who made a mistake, what matters is that with 84 minutes gone, having not won in ages, we didnt sit back with 11 men behind the ball, as you are saying, we pushed 5 players into their box and had 3 in our half. In at least 10 attacks last night, more than 4 red shirts were in their box.

 

So if you want to accuse Rafa of something, do it, but if you're wrong admit it.

 

i accused you of having an agenda before, perhaps I was wrong then, but if you can't see that we were all out attacking at the time then you are deluding yourself just to suit an agenda.

 

So what is it Bazza, Agenda or not ?

 

but you also know, rrt, that when we have sat back and invited the opposition on to us, which we have on occasion this season, we have often conceded. It's the crushing inevitability of that that the players were looking to avoid imo.

 

The fact is, a few players apart, we don't have the technique or guile to make chances in a tight game. And whoever is coaching us doesn't have the nous to work around that problem. Teams will allegedly far less accomplished players find it far easier to create chances, and it's not always because they are given more room in which to play.

 

There's no agenda in what I say, but I get frustrated by your refusal to accept that Rafa is in any way culpable.

 

He is, in lots of ways.

He is, more than any individual player.

Accept that, and people may see what you say as less agenda-driven and more objective. ;)

[SpeedyG]

What would that figure be without Keane's contributions (10% accuracy a few weeks ago!) this season, mind? :no

 

Shot Accuracy

 

1. Yossi 41%

2. Kuyt 39%

3=Gerrard 35.7142857%

3=Keane 35.7142857%

5=Lucas 33%

5=N'Gog 33%

7. Torres 31%

8. Riera 29%

9. Xabi 24%

 

Not what I would have expected.

[wiiksie]

Shot Accuracy

 

1. Yossi 41%

2. Kuyt 39%

3=Gerrard 35.7142857%

3=Keane 35.7142857%

5=Lucas 33%

5=N'Gog 33%

7. Torres 31%

8. Riera 29%

9. Xabi 24%

 

Not what I would have expected.

Does that take into account shots straight at the keeper?

[Barrington Womble]

Right, cos if they hadnt been there, we'd not have conceeded the goal. Thats my point, Rafa didnt want 5 men up, I didnt want 5 men up i wanted a win and clearly, having just 3 men back and 5 in their penalty area isnt a very clever way of keeping a 1-0, especailly when you havent won for a month.

 

I didnt say we were playing a 3-2-5 formation, I said thats where our players were on the pitch when they intercepted and broke forward.

 

So you didn't say ......

 

Rafa didnt ask them to bomb forward and play 3-2-5 did he ?

 

.

 

So that's not saying we were playing 3-2-5? You seem to indicate the players took it on themselves to play that formation, not just get out of position as I have suggested.

 

I agree, the players were out of position and therefore it was the players fault we f'd up last night and IMHO, vs Everton in the league game. But clearly, however you look at it, it wasnt Rafas. To blame Rafa for confusing the players is just agenda driven baz and you know it.

 

Have you watched any of our players ever? Babel is a headless chicken at the best of times, when he's put up front to lead the line he thinks it means he can just go wherever he feels like and does anything but lead the line. By bringing torres off and not using one of the striking options on the bench, he effectively implemented 4-6-0. If you think our players know how to play this formation, again I suggest you don't watch us play. Rafa does this often and everytime he does, we're absolute shite. Either Rafa is in charge or he's not. If he's wants to play some mad system, he should at least know his players are capable of doing it. Ours clearly aren't and it's nothing new as we've tried it before. That's not an agenda, it's watching the game unfold and seeing what impact the managers changes are making on the team, then watching him repeat the exact same mistakes time and again - he's actually been doing this 4-6-0 lark since his 1st season here.

 

The point of all this is, that when we conceeded both goals, we didnt have 11 men behind the ball and we werent sitting on a lead only to throw it away as Ive seen repeated on this and many other forums today.

 

Its factually incorrect.

 

I've never said we have 11 men behind the ball - I said Rafa effectively went 4-6-0 when selecting babel to replace torres in the previous 4-5-1. That invited the opposition on. That was the turning point of the game imo. The rest was an accident waiting to happen. If we'd kept the shape we'd played the 1st 70 mins we'd have won, as they couldn't get out of their half. We didn't, we chose to go to a formation the players are not capable of carrying off and we lost our control on the game.

 

but you also know, rrt, that when we have sat back and invited the opposition on to us, which we have on occasion this season, we have often conceded. It's the crushing inevitability of that that the players were looking to avoid imo.

 

The fact is, a few players apart, we don't have the technique or guile to make chances in a tight game. And whoever is coaching us doesn't have the nous to work around that problem. Teams will allegedly far less accomplished players find it far easier to create chances, and it's not always because they are given more room in which to play.

 

There's no agenda in what I say, but I get frustrated by your refusal to accept that Rafa is in any way culpable.

 

He is, in lots of ways.

He is, more than any individual player.

Accept that, and people may see what you say as less agenda-driven and more objective. ;)

 

 

Spot on that.

[Rex Banner]

Does that take into account shots straight at the keeper?

 

What it doesn't take into account is all the air swings he's had

[redrosetints]

but you also know, rrt, that when we have sat back and invited the opposition on to us, which we have on occasion this season, we have often conceded. It's the crushing inevitability of that that the players were looking to avoid imo.

 

The fact is, a few players apart, we don't have the technique or guile to make chances in a tight game. And whoever is coaching us doesn't have the nous to work around that problem. Teams will allegedly far less accomplished players find it far easier to create chances, and it's not always because they are given more room in which to play.

 

There's no agenda in what I say, but I get frustrated by your refusal to accept that Rafa is in any way culpable.

 

He is, in lots of ways.

He is, more than any individual player.

Accept that, and people may see what you say as less agenda-driven and more objective. ;)

 

Of course he is, it's his team, his players and he is 100% responsible, when have I said otherwise ?

 

He lives and dies by his results, which is as it should be and thats all people really care about. If we beat Chelsea and Villa, the criticism will cease, which makes me think that much of the furore on here is misplaced. How can winning two games make up for all the anger/hurt/resentment ?

 

Managers have to make tough decisions, when he took Gerrard off against Everton it worked, we created more and Lucas was directly involved in the winner. The other night it didn't work, managers have to be judged on the balance of all these decisions. And I think its in his favour right now.

 

Fergie played 4-3-3 and Rooney on the wing against us and I know several ST holding Mancs were calling for him to go, I laughed at them and told them not to be so stupid. Now they are waxing lyrical about him again.

 

But examining every single decision in minute detail, as alot of people are now, is ALWAYS, always going to find fault.

 

As for the other night, I dont think Rafa is asking the players to just sit deep either. Like I said in an earlier post, Rafas vision of football is not counter attacking. He doesnt want us to give away possession, to hit at the right time, he wants us to have 100% possession. Never give the ball away.

 

That we are playing a slow, poor version of that, is partly down to Rafas man management, of course, but its also down to the players. We've seen enough times this season ,where we can keep the ball, play a fast high tempo passing game, dominating the opposition as we've come back enough times doing just that.

 

I also think the fact people are so keen to get the title, is clouding their judgement on other things. For example, european success is taken as a gimmee now, it shouldnt be and I'd hate to throw away the glory we've had in the last 4 seasons, due to unrealistic expectations in the league.

 

We asked for a challenge this season, were getting one. Time for people to hold their nerve and see what pans out or theres going to be alot of humble pie eaten in may. FFS, there are even people who'd sack Rafa if we won no6, what Fin planet are they on ?