Making A Murderer

[VladimirIlyich]

Regarding the car being moved Dassey stated that Steven moved the car and then took the battery cable from the hood. I don't think this was included in the documentary

 

Then you have Stevens DNA under the hood of the car being confirmed, which I doubt could have been planted, unless the police would have known about the battery cable being removed in order to plant a reason for Avery going under the hood in the first place.

 

From the below article

 

http://www.avclub.com/article/read-damning-evidence-against-steven-avery-making--230224

 

"Here’s the piece of evidence that was presented at trial but not in the series that I find most convincing: In Dassey’s illegally obtained statement, Dassey stated that he helped Avery moved the RAV4 into the junkyard and that Avery had lifted the hood and removed the battery cable. Even if you believe that the blood in Halbach’s car was planted by the cops (as I do), there was also non-blood DNA evidence on the hood latch. I don’t believe the police would plant — or know to plant — that evidence"

To be honest,as soon as Matewoc Police Dept got involved all evidence should have been declared null and void and a new investigation begun.

The evidence you are speaking about was never used at the trial so must have been considered even weaker than the appallingly weak prosecution was anyhow.

Just to back to Dassey for a moment,I thought it was awful not to show his interrogation by the investigators where they spoon fed suggestions to him and this became his story! This was where he was let down by his second set of defence lawyers too.

Whether innocent or guilty they both deserve retrials far away from the corrupt place they were originally tried.

I would also love to see a totally independent set of investigators conduct a proper unbiased review and re investigation and see how that pans out.

[Josef Svejk]

Don't forget this arrogant cunt...

 

[VladimirIlyich]

I don't think that, taking everything into account, you could discount Steven Avery as a suspect, but there has clearly been foul play from the police and the evidence is severely tainted.

I'd say this is my take on it too.

 

If other suspects would have been as investigated as 'thoroughly' as he has been then I doubt he'd have been the only real 'Person of Interest.'

 

The most distasteful thing of all was that there was no evidence of any real source found in 5 months of searching until the local Police Inspector (Lenk) showed up with his deputies and was left unattended. This,for me,should have killed the case and forced an outside agency to take over lock,stock and barrel and forced the prosecution of the whole corrupt department. Rotten to the core that place is,regardless of whether Avery has done the crime or not.

[Chris]

When he said he wanted to get home to watch Wrestlemania, it said everything about his view of what was happening. 

 

 

That got me too.

 

Overall, I'm not sure whether they're guilty or innocent to be honest. it's impossible to take any documentary as a fair and balanced account of events. They just don't exist. All filmmakers come in with a natural bias and this was hugely evident, despite the filmmakers claiming they didn't have a horse in the race.

 

I used to be a huge Michael Moore fan in Uni, until I did my dissertation analysing Bowling for Columbine as a piece of journalism. I discovered so many of the events had been pulled together in post-production, so many of the facts misrepresented, and Music was so often used for dramatic effect, just like in a fictional film. Fair to say, I lost a little faith in the whole genre after that.

 

But this was compelling and convincing. I'm just not sure it's worthy of all this "Free Steven and Brendan!" hysteria, given it is clearly only seeking to tell one side of the story.

[Chris]

One thing I am sure about: Dean Strang and Jerry Bunting are fucking rockstars. And the TV journalist with the glasses was nice. Quite nice.

 

EDIT: OK, that's two things.

[VladimirIlyich]

That got me too.

 

Overall, I'm not sure whether they're guilty or innocent to be honest. it's impossible to take any documentary as a fair and balanced account of events. They just don't exist. All filmmakers come in with a natural bias and this was hugely evident, despite the filmmakers claiming they didn't have a horse in the race.

 

I used to be a huge Michael Moore fan in Uni, until I did my dissertation analysing Bowling for Columbine as a piece of journalism. I discovered so many of the events had been pulled together in post-production, so many of the facts misrepresented, and Music was so often used for dramatic effect, just like in a fictional film. Fair to say, I lost a little faith in the whole genre after that.

But this was compelling and convincing. I'm just not sure it's worthy of all this "Free Steven and Brendan!" hysteria, given the level of bias on display.

Retrial for both is the fairest solution all round in my view.

 

I'd also want that whole Police Department shut down before anybody else gets stitched up like this (as if they havent been already!)

[Chris]

What was astonishing to me also was the way the trial was utterly prejudice from day one in a way that just wouldn't happen in the UK. If there's the slightest hint that media coverage has tainted the possibility of a fair trial, it is immediately thrown out of court. I've covered cases myself in which that's happened.

 

Yet, you had those fucks with their press conferences and daily briefings to the media, during which they continued to shape the story for an onlooking nation. There was simply no chance of a fair trial, given the pressure on jurors from the wider world to come back with that guilty verdict.

 

I know jurors are told to avoid watching television and discussing the case, but come on...

 

Like I say, it just wouldn't be tolerated in the UK. Mistrial every single time.

[Chris]

Fairly or not, the documentary hinted at the involvement of the victim's housemate and ex-boyfriend. Or is that a false memory?

 

Certainly, and also those utter wankstains Scott and Bobby, who were clearly delighted when we was put away and could only give each other an alibi.

[Chris]

Imagine if he gets out and then kills his new bird though! 

 

PLOT TWIST!

 

Did you see those fucking mad photoshopped pictures she had of him standing next to Harley's and at the Zoo and that? She's as batshit as anyone in the show.

[Anubis]

Certainly, and also those utter wankstains Scott and Bobby, who were clearly delighted when we was put away and could only give each other an alibi.

They are actually my gut favourites for this. Both totally contradicted by the school bus driver. Bobby had scratches on his back that he blamed on a puppy. Scott also trying to sell a .22 rifle to a workmate. If you accept what Steven Avery said then Bobby would have left around the same time as Theresa as well. Proximity and opportunity.

 

Also, Scott was desperate for Brendan Dassey to cop a plea to the charges he faced and even tried to intervene behind his wife's back.

 

I do believe that Brendan is innocent. What happened to that lad is a disgrace.

[lifetime fan]

I can't seem to find the first episodes and don't want to see any spoilers - so apologies if they've already been linked but if someone could PM me a link I'd be most appreciative.

 

Cheers.

[mouse1989]

First episode here mate

 

http://youtu.be/34M2zdLc-2U

[Josef Svejk]

I can't seem to find the first episodes and don't want to see any spoilers - so apologies if they've already been linked but if someone could PM me a link I'd be most appreciative.

 

Cheers.

 

Free trial month with Netflix?

[Curly]

That Ken Krantz drives me insane with rage in 3 different ways:

1) his oestrogen fuelled voice

2) his irritatingly arrogant mannerisms

3) being a fat, lying, mistachioed cunt

 

I'm on episode 7. It's getting finished. Tonight.

 

Epic viewing.

[Hooch]

Anyone got links to The Jinx on YouTube?

 

I'm sure someone said it was on there, but the only ones I've found seem as though someone has filmed it off the tv with their phone.

[Ted]

It's on putlocker, mate.

[Sugar Ape]

Anyone got links to The Jinx on YouTube?

 

I'm sure someone said it was on there, but the only ones I've found seem as though someone has filmed it off the tv with their phone.

All on here mate.

 

http://putlocker.is/watch-the-jinx-the-life-and-deaths-of-robert-durst-tvshow-online-free-putlocker.html

 

Edit: What Ted said.

[Hooch]

Thanks lads.

[VladimirIlyich]

One thing has just occurred to me about Making a Murderer and probably the most relevant and concise statement came from the investigator for the defence who was interviewed over about 10-20 minutes on the programme. I dont believe he completely discounted Avery at all but he did indicate that the prosection had behaved far outside their remit and that other Persons of Interest had not even been interviewed as such.

I reckon a one off interview with him outside of the case could reveal more than the tv documentary ever did.

[Scott_M]

Six pages in, it's about time the attractive reporter got a mention

 

Yes, I bet she's a boss mucky tart. I was disappointed she wasn't covering Brendan's case as well.

 

I've got one episode to go. Although I do recognise short comings in the prosecutions case and some very fishing goings on, I'm not convinced of their innocence or guilt either way.

[Kant]

Just finished this in a 5-hour stretch, shocking tv really.

Spent most of my time fuming at the prosecutors and cops, so much of what they were saying seemed completely unreal and untrustworthy. They just seemed absolutely desperate to get a conviction, rather than investigating the truth.

It was good to see that Len Kachinsky and his mate get taken apart at the end. He seemed consumed by his (failed) political career and getting his face on telly. Why was he always smirking?

Obviously we only get one side with the documentary, but the convictions both seem totally outlandish and the complete lack of blood at the Avery residence surely raises an almost impossible bar to the prosecution(doesn't it?).

Thanks to those who provided links to further evidence, I'll be having a read of those.

[Charles Penrose]

Got fifteen minutes into episode 1. Discovered he threw a cat on a fire so ceased to give a fuck.

[Ted]

Cats are shit, though.

[Longview1982]

What was astonishing to me also was the way the trial was utterly prejudice from day one in a way that just wouldn't happen in the UK. If there's the slightest hint that media coverage has tainted the possibility of a fair trial, it is immediately thrown out of court. I've covered cases myself in which that's happened.

 

Yet, you had those fucks with their press conferences and daily briefings to the media, during which they continued to shape the story for an onlooking nation. There was simply no chance of a fair trial, given the pressure on jurors from the wider world to come back with that guilty verdict.

 

I know jurors are told to avoid watching television and discussing the case, but come on...

 

Like I say, it just wouldn't be tolerated in the UK. Mistrial every single time.

 

The treatment of Christopher Jefferies shows that exactly the same thing happens in the UK.  

[Longview1982]

I think the focus on whether people believe Avery or Dassey to be guilty is inevitable, but I do think it isn't the point of the documentary. The documentary is to shine a light on the enormous imbalance of power that exists within a justice system that is supposed to deliver fairness.

 

Dean Strang made some brilliant and powerful observations around this point in his usual understated manner. There was no great conspiracy of dozens of people dishonestly colluding to bring this about. It simply takes one or two people to be determined to ensure that there is a conviction and everything else easily falls in to place.

 

There's an automatic acceptance in counties like Manitowoc that law enforcement officers and state officials are pillars of the community and that it's unthinkable that these people would act dishonestly. They don't have the cynicism and distrust of authority that exists in urban populations in major cities. Similarly, within the organisations that provide resources and support to law enforcement agencies there is a similar view. This is how we see the Wisconsin State DNA Analyst, Sherry Culhane, calmly presenting conclusions on a sample that caused her to deviate from established protocol under instruction from the FBI investigator, Fassbender. In the film, it comes across as a massive collusion where people are conspiring to change procedures to get a result to match the narrative prosecutors want. The reality is that, like everyone in their workplaces, it was probably a totally insignificant and meaningless event in her daily routine where you just make one small exception to a process to get a job done on time. Culhane is happy to do this because of the assumption that the investigating officers asking her for this are honest people and so there's nothing to be suspicious of when they make these requests.

 

We're viewing all of these actions through a prism of cynicism that simply doesn't exist in counties like Manitowoc, or in the organisations that support law enforcement. Consequently, proper cunts like Lenk, Colburn and Kratz can go about their business without a hint of suspicion and the full support and co-operation of all around them.

 

It's why, during the trial, Strang and Buting suffered a constant barrage of abuse and criticism from county residents who simply couldn't comprehend how they could contemplate accusing these good, honest men - pillars of the community - of such deeds and defend pond-life like the Averys. It's only since the documentary was shown that the feedback has turned through 180 degrees and become supportive as cynics like us tune in and see obvious misconduct that casts doubts on the convictions.

 

Whilst it obviously does matter in real life whether Avery and Dassey are guilty or not, what we should be most outraged about is just how very, very easy it is for ordinary people to be denied any sense of fair treatment and simply "disappeared" for decades within the massive grinding machine of State delivered justice systems.