Should Gerrard be dropped?

[Unrighteous]

+1

 

Suarez/Sterling - Borini/Suarez - Gerrard

 

Sahin - Allen - Shelvey

 

Let's fucking try it.

[TheDrowningMan]

I agree that it gets tougher the older you get.

 

However Ryan Giggs is nearly 50 and was pretty much an ever present for United last season.

 

If it is the issue that he needs to adjust his fitness regime, or ans I firmly believe he needs to fuck England off or give up the captaincy IF he is going to struggle to play every game fuel to fitness.

 

All ifs and buts but something needs to give.

 

Stick him on the right of the front three and it will be more beneficial to the team.

 

Giggs has made 25 league appearances in each of the last three seasons, and 11 of them were off the bench last year.

 

That's where Gerrard should be; different styles mean he's deteriorated far more quickly (similar to a last ditch defender like JC being shot to pieces a good five or six years younger than Hyypia), but he's in the same boat; a past-prime legend that no top club should seek to build a team around.

 

You'll get a lot more out of him by giving him 15 - 20 starts per season, you'll get much more of the 'real' Gerrard by using him sparingly. No one in their right mind thinks that Shelvey is in the pantheon of legends, but rotating him with Gerrard will be good for everyone.

 

I expressed similar sentiment last season, and I've seen nothing to convince me otherwise. Whacking Gerrard in as an automatic starter as soon as he comes back from injury is naive or overly sentimental depending on the angle of who is doing it, but it won't get us anywhere either way.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

I thought Giggs started more than 25 to be fair.

[TheDrowningMan]

I thought Giggs started more than 25 to be fair.

 

Seems like more, but I think it's because he's there or thereabouts - He's on the bench, usually available if he's not starting. We tend to stuff Gerrard into a starting berth expecting miracles until he breaks down with another injury, whereas they coddle Giggs and get more out of him.

 

The players they rotate with Giggs / Scholes couldn't lace the boots of such quality in its prime, but they play an important part in helping maintain them. I think Shelvey is more good enough for that.

[xerxes]

By the year 2028/29 ( see Henry's letter from America) I don't think that he should be so much dropped, as used as an impact sub.

[Neil G]

Suarez/Sterling - Borini/Suarez - Gerrard

 

Sahin - Allen - Shelvey

 

 

This is a no-brainer now as far as I'm concerned.

[piscinin]

Poor Stevie getting shit for being one of the few players that is brave enough to do something other than pass sideways. Sure he's played a few sloppy ones, but if the manager can't setup the team so that we can defend a 6 on 3 situation then guess what . . .

 

The goal he is getting shit for was a direct result of the system saying Johnson and Enrique should be far in advance of play and not providing cover and of having two defensive midfielders neither of whom screen or mark in possession. I'm not even convinced Lucas would have made any difference because the signs are that he was being deployed in a similarly lassiez faire fashion.

 

If rodgers had assumed that he could setup his defence as though he was going to click his fingers and we were going to become an 80% possession team then he's more naive than even I thought.

 

The team is not ready for this defensive setup. It's a high risk setup that took years and multiple managers to get working at Swansea and despite that they still routinely conceded way more shots than they should have given the amount of possession they had.

 

So get off his back because the alternative will be him going in his shell and us passing teams backwards to death. And set pieces into the big man . . . Oh!

[silverlining]

Poor Stevie getting shit for being one of the few players that is brave enough to do something other than pass sideways. Sure he's played a few sloppy ones, but if the manager can't setup the team so that we can defend a 6 on 3 situation then guess what . . .

 

The goal he is getting shit for was a direct result of the system saying Johnson and Enrique should be far in advance of play and not providing cover and of having two defensive midfielders neither of whom screen or mark in possession. I'm not even convinced Lucas would have made any difference because the signs are that he was being deployed in a similarly lassiez faire fashion.

 

If rodgers had assumed that he could setup his defence as though he was going to click his fingers and we were going to become an 80% possession team then he's more naive than even I thought.

 

The team is not ready for this defensive setup. It's a high risk setup that took years and multiple managers to get working at Swansea and despite that they still routinely conceded way more shots than they should have given the amount of possession they had.

 

So get off his back because the alternative will be him going in his shell and us passing teams backwards to death. And set pieces into the big man . . . Oh!

 

I don't understand why so few people get this. If we fill the team with players like Allen (who I like), Henderson (who I hate), Sahin, Downing, Borini etc, we''ll never ever score goals.

 

We need to have players who can make those difficult passes, and surging runs. Try a flick or bit of skill. Players like Gerrard and Suarez.

 

Simply recycling useless possession around our own half for 90 minutes isn't going to get many goals, and you don't get points for useless possession.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

I don't know what's going on with Gerrard anymore, I really don't, I have absolutely no idea if he's still got it or whether he's fit, he seems to be just a name now. I've said it time and again that he's the best player I've ever seen at Anfield and probably my favourite player ever but as I say I've got no idea what the future is for him or whether he will ever be the player he was again. As for dropping him well it's complete folly, we're an average side with a piss poor squad so he's the first name on the team sheet regardless of what I've just said.

[Gym Beglin]

Trying Suarez and Gerrard either side of a proper striker like Borini or Morgan is the most sensible suggestion.

 

It won't be done. This club has a track record of fucking up the most basic solutions to problems.

[JaminKibbler]

I just don't think we can play him 3 times in 7 days is all. He was alright in the hearts game and showed glimpses of the old Gerard tearing forward, but the key is simply squad rotation. 1 game a week is where he's still at, but it's the box to box midfield role he's been taking up that's just knackered him. Play him in the suggested right of the front 3 and we'll reek the benefits.

[TheDrowningMan]

I just don't think we can play him 3 times in 7 days is all. He was alright in the hearts game and showed glimpses of the old Gerard tearing forward, but the key is simply squad rotation. 1 game a week is where he's still at, but it's the box to box midfield role he's been taking up that's just knackered him. Play him in the suggested right of the front 3 and we'll reek the benefits.

 

Stick him on the bench every third league game, use him sparingly in the cups and he'll more frequently look like a prime SG. It's been so obvious for over a year.

[JaminKibbler]

Stick him on the bench every third league game, use him sparingly in the cups and he'll more frequently look like a prime SG. It's been so obvious for over a year.

 

Thats a decent shout, the only problem is with the importance of the games more recently ie man city, arsenal and utd. Will he feature against the likes of udinese and anzhi?

[TheDrowningMan]

I just don't think we can play him 3 times in 7 days is all. He was alright in the hearts game and showed glimpses of the old Gerard tearing forward, but the key is simply squad rotation. 1 game a week is where he's still at, but it's the box to box midfield role he's been taking up that's just knackered him. Play him in the suggested right of the front 3 and we'll reek the benefits.

 

Stick him on the bench every third league game, use him sparingly in the cups and he'll more frequently look like a prime SG. It's been so obvious for over a year.

[Markmywords]

I agree he shouldnt be expectd to play 90mins Thursday & Sunday, that was a bit of an obvious one.

[Gym Beglin]

if it's obvious, we ain't interested.

 

We need to use pythagorus theorums to deduce that a left footed player needs to play on the left wing. Fuck off.

 

We need to experiment with natural strikers as wingers before we are convinced he's a natural striker, despite buying him based on his performances as a striker for two clubs and the national team. Nope, not enough evidence for us, he's obviously a closet winger. Fuck off.

 

Martin Kelly? Oh yeah, full back he is.

Glen Johnson? Fucking left back, nailed on.

Shelvey? He can play on the wing he can, pace is overrated.

Gerrard? Those 50 goals from the wing and as a secondary striker was a fluke that.

Suso? Right winger, he's a natural there.

Henderson? He was always a right winger for Sunderland, it's obvious he's an exciting wide man.

 

Fuck off, fuck off, fuck off, you're making me dizzy with the level of fucking stupidity I've been subjected to in recent years. Stupidity that has seen us drop like a fucking stone through the league places, and yet Rodgers still wants to play the clever fucker and further analyse the merits of playing players out of position? You can fuck off as well, I thought you were better than that Brendan. You told me football was an easy game, and yet you try your hardest to make it akin to quantum physics and then scratch your head in amazement when the players don't 'get it'....

 

It's been slow torture supporting this club, slow fucking water torture. We could have had Messi and still ended up playing him as a holding midfielder, I firmly believe we could have even fucked that up.

[silverlining]

Trying Suarez and Gerrard either side of a proper striker like Borini or Morgan is the most sensible suggestion.

 

It won't be done. This club has a track record of fucking up the most basic solutions to problems.

 

"A proper striker like Borini or Morgan"

 

you're funny

[spider-neil]

I don't understand why so few people get this. If we fill the team with players like Allen (who I like), Henderson (who I hate), Sahin, Downing, Borini etc, we''ll never ever score goals.

 

We need to have players who can make those difficult passes, and surging runs. Try a flick or bit of skill. Players like Gerrard and Suarez.

 

 

And Gerrard can do all of that in the front 3. The midfield should be about keeping possession and waiting for the right moment when either space opens up or a quick interchange of passing is going to get behind the opposition defense. If we're going to routinely give away possession in midfield we may as well fuck off possession football now because all that will happen is us conceeding on the counter attack again and again.

 

Worth pointing out that Henderson in midweek had a pass completion of 93% but still managed to play Suarez in on goal twice.

[spider-neil]

"A proper striker like Borini or Morgan"

 

you're funny

 

I am 100% certain that played through the middle Gerrard is more clinical than Suarez, Borini and all the strikers in the reserves. The finishing from our 'strikers' borders on a disgrace.

[lebron]

This is a no-brainer now as far as I'm concerned.

 

Sterling - Suarez © - Borini

 

Sahin - Allen - Shelvey

 

Bench:

Gerrard

 

fixed

[lebron]

Poor Stevie getting shit for being one of the few players that is brave enough to do something other than pass sideways. Sure he's played a few sloppy ones,

 

The goal he is getting shit for was a direct result of the system saying Johnson and Enrique should be far in advance of play and not providing cover and of having two defensive midfielders neither of whom screen or mark in possession. I'm not even convinced Lucas would have made any difference because the signs are that he was being deployed in a similarly lassiez faire fashion.

 

So get off his back because the alternative will be him going in his shell and us passing teams backwards to death. And set pieces into the big man . . . Oh!

 

It's not only that he misses passes for me, it's more the tilt of the head when it doesn't come off, and the sighing and the blatantly not tracking back part that gets on my nerves. He's like a luxury striker from the mid 80s, you simply can not afford that in modern football, and especially not if your aim is to win the ball back in 5-6 or 7 seconds. Oh, and a few sloppy ones? Come on... His and Suarez' squandering of possession is criminal. One of them is still working pretty hard to win it back occassionaly - although he's starting to get a sniff of the Torres' about him too...

 

Re the goal, that was mainly Johnson gambling that Podolski wouldn't go full speed, then receive a perfect pass. He did though. I'd say "the blame" could be about 20-60-20 divided between Stevie, Johnson and Reina respectively. One of Agger/Skrtel should perhaps have read the ball to Cazorla a bit earlier too...

 

I'll get off his back when he starts caring again, thank you very much. He's not giving 100 % anymore, compare what he does for us now with his summer exploits and it's as clear as day he's not putting the same effort in. If that is down to injury, he should take the desired rest to get back into shape. I don't think it is though - hence my constant banging about him being stripped of the captaincy.

 

Lastly - his set pieces are about the worst in the PL when it comes to accuracy. He has (a little less than before it seems) some power in his boot, and is able to put great swerwe on the ball, but it very seldom lands in the designed area. As for his direct (or indirect - don't you just love the rolling of the ball ones?) free kick attempts, he's absolutely smashing Ronaldo's percentage for hits on goal there. Seem to remember him scoring v Portsmouth, Villa and Arsenal the last 3-4 seasons, I'm guessing somewhere about 50 attempts werer squandered in the same time period. He's just not very good at it, but still wants to be the main man.

[Mojo]

what about Luis and Pepe. Just as atrocious yesterday. If I didn't know better I would recommend Luis visits an optician -- his instinctive distance passing and shooting are more often woefully off target, and yet his close control andmovements with the ball are sublime.

 

People talk about Pepe needing Xavi Valero to regain form. Bring him back if that is true!

[lebron]

what about Luis and Pepe. Just as atrocious yesterday. If I didn't know better I would recommend Luis visits an optician -- his instinctive distance passing and shooting are more often woefully off target, and yet his close control andmovements with the ball are sublime.

 

People talk about Pepe needing Xavi Valero to regain form. Bring him back if that is true!

 

Pepe (especially) and Suarez have already been massacred by supporters and media, whereas Captain Fantastic gets away with murder from most on here. The fact that we're better stocked in midfield than at the back and upfront is an issue too perhaps?

[zigackly]

It's not a fair comment at all. Possession football is about patience because the idea is to have as many of your players as high up the pitch as possible, if you lose the ball near the opposition half/penalty box you are going to get hit on the counter attack, that is a natural side effect of a possession based style of play. If we weren't continually giving Arsenal the ball then Diaby and Carzola couldn't hurt us with it.

 

Gerrard has been way too eager to force the play and it's cost us in three league games in a row. If the pass isn't on he shouldn't be attempting it, that's why 'patience' is one of the 4 'p's of possession football (patience, , passing, pressing, penetration). Wayward passes are going to leave us badly exposed.

 

Allen's passing accuray was in the 90's as was Henderson's midweek, if Gerrard's passing accuracy passing accuaracy is in the 80's I'll be very surprised.

Now I'm not calling for Gerrard to be dropped but he is a world class talent and argubly the best player we have but he can't be allowed to continue to give away the ball away in midfield (Gerrard's lack of pressing is also an issue) or we may as well bin off possession football because it isn't going to work.

 

Play Gerrard in the front 3 (through the middle);

A) He is clincial.

B) It would push Suarez out wide (Suarez is rubbish thorugh the middle).

C) If he loses the ball there will be enough bodies behind him to snuff out the counter attack.

 

Gerrard in midfield when we are attempting to transition into a possession based style of play isn't working.

 

What a load of absolute bollocks. You're basically abrogating defensive responsibility for any counter attack.

 

When Gerrard lost the ball, it had to move seventy yards past seven Liverpool players to end up in our net.

 

It is absolutely the job of the defenders to keep in touch with the midfield and not allow Cazorla that space, regardless of what system we are playing.

 

If you disagree with that, then kindly explain to me why we bother fielding them.

[piscinin]

It's not only that he misses passes for me, it's more the tilt of the head when it doesn't come off, and the sighing and the blatantly not tracking back part that gets on my nerves. He's like a luxury striker from the mid 80s, you simply can not afford that in modern football, and especially not if your aim is to win the ball back in 5-6 or 7 seconds. Oh, and a few sloppy ones? Come on... His and Suarez' squandering of possession is criminal. One of them is still working pretty hard to win it back occassionaly - although he's starting to get a sniff of the Torres' about him too...

 

He is what he is. What he's always been really. You take the good with the bad.

 

Re the goal, that was mainly Johnson gambling that Podolski wouldn't go full speed, then receive a perfect pass. He did though. I'd say "the blame" could be about 20-60-20 divided between Stevie, Johnson and Reina respectively. One of Agger/Skrtel should perhaps have read the ball to Cazorla a bit earlier too...

 

Disagree completely with this. One pass and you have 2 on 2 with your central defenders. To me that says your 2, yes, 2 defensive midfielders are fast asleep. That the eventual pressure comes from full backs who were but seconds ago 30yds further up the pitch than them is a credit to them. Defensive midfielders not covering fullbacks in a system which has fullbacks camped in the final 3rd is a joke and the fact gerrard and johnson are taking stick for it is an even bigger joke.

 

And Gerrard's set pieces are fine. Not perfect, but good enough. You only have to see Agger's air-header to know our issue with set pieces is a bit more involved.