Britain's Gay Footballers

[Tom R]

Thing is, the FA actively encourage homophobia and refuse to punish or even tut at players who use the word 'faggot'.

 

Tell that to Robbie Fowler!

 

[xerxes]

Can I just make a point here.

 

Justin Fashanu didn't kill himself because he was gay. He killed himself because he was a paedophile.

 

You can.

 

A seventeen year old alleged sexual assault. Fashanu claimed it was consensual.At the time gay sex under the age of 18 was illegal in 1998, in 2003 it was made legal from 16 upwards unless the person over the age of 18 is in a position of trust over the other who is under the age of 18.

 

Those claims, and the motivation for those claims, were never tested in court.

 

Describing Fashanu as a paedophile, may at the time, if convicted, have been technically true, but he wasn't convicted. The associations that word has are unhelpful in this context.

Edited January 31, 2012 by xerxes

[Major Tom]

Can I just make a point here.

 

Justin Fashanu didn't kill himself because he was gay. He killed himself because he was a paedophile.

 

It's this sort of attitude, and sorry attempt at humour, that prevents gay men - footballers or otherwise - outing themselves.

 

Sad but unfortunately true.

[Major Tom]

 

Describing Fashanu as a paedophile, may at the time, if convicted, have been technically true.

 

Having sex with with someone aged 17 (at the time) did not 'technically' make you a paedophile at all, xerxes. You would not have been charged with paedophilia in this instance.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Major Tom

[silverlining]

It's this sort of attitude, and sorry attempt at humour, that prevents gay men - footballers or otherwise - outing themselves.

 

Sad but unfortunately true.

 

It's not a sorry attempt at humour. It is rather ill-informed, though.

 

Fashanu was accused of a sexual assault on a 17 year old in the US (who apparently had tried to extort money from him before reporting the alleged assault), and had an extradition threat hanging (no pun intended) over him.

[Tom R]

You can.

 

A seventeen year old alleged sexual assault. Fashanu claimed it was consensual.At the time gay sex under the age of 18 was illegal in 1998, in 2003 it was made legal from 16 upwards unless the person over the age of 18 is in a position of trust over the other who is under the age of 18.

 

Those claims, and the motivation for those claims, were never tested in court.

 

Describing Fashanu as a paedophile, may at the time, if convicted, have been technically true, but he wasn't. The associations that word has are unhelpful in this context.

 

He admitted to it in his suicide note.

He illegally bummed a 17 year old boy, and that's a fact.

 

You can call it, and him, whatever you want if it makes you feel more comfortable, but it is what it is.

[Major Tom]

It's not a sorry attempt at humour. It is rather ill-informed, though.

 

 

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[xerxes]

Having sex with with someone aged 17 (at the time) did not 'technically' make you a paedophile at all, xerxes. You would not have been chareged with paedophilia in this instance.

 

I am not aware that paedophilia is an offence.Having gay sex with someone under thae age of consent is an offence.

 

I was deconstructing Tom R's argument. I believe that at the time gay sex with under 18's was illegal. Someone convicted of such an offence may, in the broadest sense of the term, have been branded a paedophile with some technical, but little broad, justification.

 

If the age of consent was 18, and you had gay sex with someone under that age, then the potential for prosecution was there.

 

In practical terms I believe there were very few prosecutions for having gay sex between the ages of 16 and 18 after 1968, the prosecutions came for non-consensual sex.

[Tom R]

I am not aware that paedophilia is an offence.Having gay sex with someone under thae age of consent is an offence.

 

I was deconstructing Tom R's argument. I believe that at the time gay sex with under 18's was illegal. Someone convicted of such an offence may, in the broadest sense of the term, have been branded a paedophile with some technical, but little broad, justification.

 

 

You fuck an underage boy, you're a paedo. End of story.

 

"Yes, Your Honour, I suppose TECHNICALLY I bummed a boy, but.... "

 

Give me a fucking break! Laws don't have shades of grey that give you "broad justification" blah blah. That's the whole fucking point of them.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Tom R

[xerxes]

He admitted to it in his suicide note. He illegally bummed a 17 year old boy, and that's a fact.You can call it, and him, whatever you want if it makes you feel more comfortable, but it is what it is.

My post acknowledged the legal situation pre 2003.

 

The allegation was of sexual assault, non-consensual. That allegation was never tested.

 

The age of consent for females at the time was 16. I am struggling to find any convictions for consensual gay sex between the ages of 16-17 post 1968.My objection to your describing him Fashanu as a paedophile is that I believe that it intentionally smears him out of context.

 

If age is the issue are all men who have sex with 16/17 year old females paedophiles?

 

If age is not the issue it is simply a matter of a criminal offence.

 

The simple act of describing men who had sex with 16/17 year old males as paedophiles, but not those who did similarly with females, is prejudiced.

[Jack the Sipper]

Your gay and play football don't Johnny.

 

On a more serious response to your post. Your spot on there mate.

 

Aren't Bolton looking at signing some Brazilian who came out a few months ago? Seen something in the paper the other week. If true wonder what Oli Holt will have say about it all.

 

'Is it homophobic to call a gay player a "fucking gay cunt"? I'm not sure.'

[Lee909]

 

You fuck an underage boy, you're a paedo. End of story.

 

"Yes, Your Honour, I suppose TECHNICALLY I bummed a boy, but.... "

 

Give me a fucking break! Laws don't have shades of grey that give you "broad justification" blah blah. That's the whole fucking point of them.

 

Technically your wrong

You are a pardon if you are attracted to prepubescent kids.

[brucespanner]

Technically your wrong

You are a pardon if you are attracted to prepubescent kids.

 

But, if kids weren't so damn sexy...........

[Jonny83]

Can I just make a point here.

 

Justin Fashanu didn't kill himself because he was gay. He killed himself because he was a paedophile.

 

The first bit's certainly true, but I thought the lad was over the age of consent in whatever US state the deed was done though, and it was simply a case of alleged sexual assault rather than statutory or whatever the Yanks call it?

[Major Tom]

The first bit's certainly true,

 

No, it's not that black and white. Fashanu felt aliented because he was gay and this was seemingly a big part of why he committed suicide.

[Lee909]

In March 1998, a seventeen-year-old claimed to police that he had been sexually assaulted by Fashanu after a night of drinking (the age of consent in Maryland is 16). The assault was alleged to have taken place in Fashanu's apartment in Ellicott City, Maryland, United States. Fashanu was questioned about this by the police on 3 April, but he was not held in custody. It was widely reported in the press that the police later arrived at his flat with a warrant to arrest him on charges of second-degree sexual assault, first-degree assault, and second-degree assault. However, Fashanu had already returned to England.[1][12][13]

 

On the morning of 3 May 1998, he was found hanged in a deserted lock-up garage he had broken into, in Shoreditch, London, after visiting Chariots Roman Spa, a local gay sauna.[13][14] In his suicide note, he stated: "I realised that I had already been presumed guilty. I do not want to give any more embarrassment to my friends and family."[13] An inquest in London, held on 9 September 1998, heard that there was in fact no warrant out for Fashanu's arrest and that the American police had already dropped the investigation due to a lack of evidence[citation needed] . The inquest recorded a verdict of suicide.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

He was asked about Justin Fashanu at Forest. First he laughed and said 'He smelt nice but I didn't know he was homosexual,' then he fell about laughing when told Clough called Fashanu a 'poof' as if it was the most hilarious bit of wit going, then he just dug a deeper and deeper hole for himself. It was like a clip from some awful 1970s ITV sitcom.

 

The Clough thing with him was along the lines of this.

 

He asked him what do you go to a shop for and he replied to shop.

 

Then he asked what do you go to a barber for and he replied for a haircut.

 

So what do you go to gaybars for then.

 

It was along them lines I will try find the article with it.

[Tom R]

The first bit's certainly true, but I thought the lad was over the age of consent in whatever US state the deed was done though, and it was simply a case of alleged sexual assault rather than statutory or whatever the Yanks call it?

 

No, he was underage, and the subject apparently took up much of his suicide note.

 

Anyway, apologies for sending the thread off piste, I just wanted to make that point.

 

As for there not being any openly gay top flight footballers etc; how do we know that there even are any? It isn't impossible.

Bear with me...

 

The cruel piss taking, the victimisation and the bullying of the gays begins at a very early age, not just once someone becomes a professional footballer/

 

Unfortunately, I suspect that they are scared off or pushed away from the game altogether at that very early age, and there is a not altogether unlikely possibility that there simple aren't any gay top footballers.

[Tom R]

ON the other hand, maybe there hundreds of them, but they just rightly don't feel the need to shout about it, in the same manner mosy straight people aren't actively encouraged to be forced to shout about not being gay!

Seriously, why on earth should any gay person feel any pressure whatsoever to proclaim the fact?

It's nobody's fucking business but their own. Why should they feel a constant pressure to succumb to society's bizarre preoccupation and morbid curiosity with people's sexuality?? It's just outright plain fucking WEIRD.

 

Why do we "need" to know who teh gay footballers are? Is it for our benefit, or theirs?

I mean what do we expect gay footballers to do anyway once they've come out? Do we expect them to wear pink socks and do each other's hair in the centre circle or something?

No, we'd expect them to carry on as they were. Which is exactly what they probably are doing right now!

 

In summary - who gives a fuck!

[Jonny83]

No, he was underage, and the subject apparently took up much of his suicide note.

 

Anyway, apologies for sending the thread off piste, I just wanted to make that point.

 

As for there not being any openly gay top flight footballers etc; how do we know that there even are any? It isn't impossible.

Bear with me...

 

The cruel piss taking, the victimisation and the bullying of the gays begins at a very early age, not just once someone becomes a professional footballer/

 

Unfortunately, I suspect that they are scared off or pushed away from the game altogether at that very early age, and there is a not altogether unlikely possibility that there simple aren't any gay top footballers.

 

They briefly touched on this in the programme (might have been Barton, can't remember), saying that even if there were no gays in the sport then it's important to stamp out discrimination so that they aren't put off entering the game etc.

 

There may well be one or two though, although I don't buy all this "1 in 10 people are gay so 1 in 10 footballers must be gay", for precisely the reasons you state.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

My missus reckons our Jose is as gay as Christmas.

 

 

Funny enough my girlfriend says exactly the same.

[Tom R]

There's absolutely no fucking chance that 1 in 10 people are gay.

 

It's a stat that gets dolled out all the time, and it is total fucking bollocks.

 

Look around.

[Tom R]

There's hundreds of people on here, and to my knowledge only Woo is Chinese.

 

So that "one in six of us is Chinese" thing, must also be bollocks.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

I like the modern man attitude of 'If footballer's came out it would be fine etc' er no, it wouldn't they'd get fucking dog's abuse week in week out.

[Tom R]

I like the modern man attitude of 'If footballer's came out it would be fine etc' er no, it wouldn't they'd get fucking dog's abuse week in week out.

 

Exactly.

I don't buy that either.

 

Unfortunately, these days there's a lot more personal stuff being hurled at players, and any glimps in to their private life is almost always used as ammo, regardless of the PC connotations etc.

 

In a way the players are to blame for this relatively recent phenomenon as well imo (i know it's always gone on, but its' deffo much much worse now than ever).

Players these days seem to spend most of their time keeping away from Johnny Public and keeping their life away from the punters, so I think there's an element of when a snippet comes out the fans jump all over it far more than they ever used to.

It's like we've had a sneaky glimpse at the life of these gods of the game and for fear of letting it slip away we will exploit it for as long as possible.

 

It's all a bit pathetic really, isn't it.