Roy Hodgson, know your role and shut your mouth

[goatboy59]

Wish I could believe he was fishing

 

He'll need a fucking trawler at this rate.

[Reacher]

 

We would not have been relegated, simple as that.

 

I`ve put forward loads of valid arguments to why that would never had happened. If we had taken 15 points out of our last 18 games we would have been safe and if people suggest anything remotely close would happen they need to get back to reality.

 

If it had been a normal season where you are safe with around 36 points we would only have needed 11 more points and that limit was what you had to take into consideration at the time, pretty simple stuff really.

 

When it comes to the staff comments I think its more than fair enough considering the amount of people in Rafa`s group compared to Roy`s.

 

It wouldn't have been pretty tho, I think we would have been further down the table than 7th.

[moof]

Not before Christmas which is the only valid comparison here.

 

That's fair enough, I suppose. You can't be suggesting Woy would've won the Europa league though?

[goatboy59]

That's fair enough, I suppose. You can't be suggesting Woy would've won the Europa league though?

 

See, I think you're wasting your time arguing but even I can predict the obvious retort to that.

[PestiRed]

Rafa was by no means perfect and it was the right time for him to go - the club needed a fresh start from the politics & ownership issues. However I was too young for Europe the first time around & I never thought I would get my Rome or Paris moment. Rafa gave me that moment in Istanbul, and what a moment it was. For this alone, Rafa will always have a special place in my affections.

The very best that Roy gave me was a win over Chelsea that turned out to be a self-promotional advert from Torres to ensure his escape.

 

I really don't care whether you think you can prove that Roy wasn't as bad as the City & Wolves performances made me feel, or that the whole dreadful episode wasn't really his fault. Roy added nothing to my experience of being a Liverpool fan except despair & embarrassment that a Liverpool manager could behave in the way he did.

 

Rafa was greater than Roy. If you don't get that, then you don't truly understand the point of being a football fan.

[moof]

He'll need a fucking trawler at this rate.

 

Greatest troll the internet has ever seen.

 

 

Either that or Rafa porked his missus.

[Jairzinho]

It goes both ways though surely. It's not every clubs supporters that call the manager a cunt wanting him sacked etc after TWO games in charge on this very forum after the Man City defeat in Aug 2010.

 

Even as recent as the late 90s we allowed Houllier a bad start in 1999-2000 without too much criticism after he got the grace of half a season to himself in 98-99 after Evans left to weigh things up. That's not to say it wasn't the right move for Roy to go but it just shows how much things have changed in a relatively short space of time.

 

We're probably one of the most patient set of fans in the world. Certainly amongst other big clubs/teams.

 

Hodgson's appointment, so utterly fucking ridiculous as it was, blew away all previous virtues.

 

Sadly? Yes. Inevitably? Without question.

 

What do you think the reception would be like if he turned up at Real Madrid? Or Bayern Munich?

[sh#t waffle]

It goes both ways though surely. It's not every clubs supporters that call the manager a cunt wanting him sacked etc after TWO games in charge on this very forum after the Man City defeat in Aug 2010.

 

Even as recent as the late 90s we allowed Houllier a bad start in 1999-2000 without too much criticism after he got the grace of half a season to himself in 98-99 after Evans left to weigh things up. That's not to say it wasn't the right move for Roy to go but it just shows how much things have changed in a relatively short space of time.

 

I just think it appeared to some to be such an obviously appalling appointment that yes, a lot of people reached conclusions much earlier than previously. Houllier came with a reputation as a moderniser, and so it was obvious that he would need a substantial amount of time to get his message across to the squad we had at the time. When the one thing that Hodgson allegedly had in his favour was that he knew the league, and would therefore 'steady the ship' (shudder), it is just about understandable that a fanbase, large portions of which felt he was well below the required standard to begin with, would expect swift 'ship steadying'.

 

There's also been discussion ad nauseum about the players he bought, and I think the reasons for the perceived lack of support for them come from a similar place. I happen to genuinely think that Konchesky was an even worse left back for the club than Insua and Dossena, but what made it all the worse is that most people knew he was shit. If you asked Spurs supporters, for example, what they thought of him, they pretty uniformly rated him as garbage. Rightly or wrongly, when we sign a young foreign player that I have not heard of before, I am inclined to give them time no matter how shite they appear to be. But I knew Konchesky was shite before we signed him, and was too old to get better, so as much as I did try and support him (as I would all our players and, after all, it wasn't his fault that he was signed by a club that required far, far better than him), I wasn't willing or able to believe that he would ever reach the required standard. If you don't believe in something to begin with, you're not likely to give them the time and space to attempt improvements that you just don't believe are in them to make. I'm not saying that this is necessarily right, and some of the shit thrown Hodgson's way makes me cringe. I'm just so glad that as I write this it genuinely seems like 10 years ago already.

[Code]

The point was you seem to have no issue slagging off a man who won us the European Cup

 

Can you read?

 

Am I using a magical keyboard here who adds text without my knowledge which is also invisible to me?

 

I cant think of any other explanation since nowhere in this thread have i slagged Rafa off,

 

or maybe its all in your imagination moof.

[Juan Galonso]

We're probably one of the most patient set of fans in the world. Certainly amongst other big clubs/teams.

 

Hodgson's appointment, so utterly fucking ridiculous as it was, blew away all previous virtues.

 

Sadly? Yes. Inevitably? Without question.

 

What do you think the reception would be like if he turned up at Real Madrid? Or Bayern Munich?

 

Houllier had a reputation in some quarters as the French Howard Wilkinson when he joined us. It didn't seem to bother too many people back then. The rest of 98-99 was a write off but generally there didn't seem to be too many discerning voices overall if I remember correctly. This was in light of Man Utds greatest ever season as well.

 

The press slaughtered Houllier in the early weeks of 1999-2000 after the iffy start albeit with good wins v Leeds and Arsenal early doors but we in the main closed ranks when GH at that moment hadn't done much to justify that support.

[Code]

That's fair enough, I suppose. You can't be suggesting Woy would've won the Europa league though?

 

There you see, for the second part no comment.

 

I also see someone are bringing up what I earlier have said about penalties and used it completely out of context.

 

The argument at the time was that if a final is decided on penalties, how different are the mangers actual achivements, how can one be hailed as a genius while the other not get a mention in that regard just because his team lost on penalties?

 

Its not belitteling the victory, more the point that a manager can be seen as some kind of magical wizard because his team won a cup on penalties when another manger who loses the same final is seen as a failure.

 

My argument at the time was that both deserved the same kind of credit since the mangerial battle in reality ends after 120 minutes for me, a superior tactical genius would have it in the bag after 90 anyway dont you think?

[Jairzinho]

Houllier had a reputation in some quarters as the French Howard Wilkinson when he joined us. It didn't seem to bother too many people back then. The rest of 98-99 was a write off but generally there didn't seem to be too many discerning voices overall if I remember correctly. This was in light of Man Utds greatest ever season as well.

 

The press slaughtered Houllier in the early weeks of 1999-2000 after the iffy start albeit with good wins v Leeds and Arsenal early doors but we in the main closed ranks when GH at that moment hadn't done much to justify that support.

 

This is key, for me. Its also the complete opposite of what happened with Hodgson.

 

We were told over and over how fucking brilliant he was before, during, and after his reign. How it was all other people's fault. Benitez, the players, the fans etc

 

We're rightly distrusting of our media. Having them onside certainly helped him land the job, but amongst our fans this actually shortened the length of time we were willing to stay onside.

 

The same sort of applies to a player like Lucas. Absolutely hammered by the press, to the point of ridicule. Slaughtered also by a fairly large chunk of our fans. These are the reasons a lot of people took to defending him so vociferously.

 

Its all pretty natural, I think.

[TheHitman]

Getting back to more comic Roy.

 

[YOUTUBE]KeqiLAM7ujA[/YOUTUBE]

[fowler9]

seeing as though Grant had the advantage of working with a top team I'll compare him with another much maligned manager Steve Mclaren in terms of away games

 

played 95 won 23

 

great manager is Roy

[usernameunknown]

This is key, for me. Its also the complete opposite of what happened with Hodgson.

 

We were told over and over how fucking brilliant he was before, during, and after his reign. How it was all other people's fault. Benitez, the players, the fans etc

 

We're rightly distrusting of our media. Having them onside certainly helped him land the job, but amongst our fans this actually shortened the length of time we were willing to stay onside.

 

The same sort of applies to a player like Lucas. Absolutely hammered by the press, to the point of ridicule. Slaughtered also by a fairly large chunk of our fans. These are the reasons a lot of people took to defending him so vociferously.

 

Its all pretty natural, I think.

 

Yep. And even forgetting all media worship and his hapless CV in English football one of his first comments upon joining the club was :

 

“I know Sir Alex is not really a Liverpool man,” said *Hodgson, “so I’m a bit *concerned about my excellent relationship with him.

 

“I sincerely hope he forgives me for moving north and hopefully we can have a glass of wine together, maybe in secret.

 

“I hope that’s how he is going to see it – but he is one of the people I intend to ring to find out.

 

“I rang the Fulham chairman (Mohamed Al Fayed). That was one phone call I had to get out of the way. Alex might be the next one.”

 

Utterly ridiculous. No problem at all with them being friends but having to have his seal of approval and forgiveness for taking the Liverpool job? Fuck off!

 

And unfortunately that was the first of 100s upon 100s of media gaffes after joining us. Just an appalling manager in every single aspect of the game.

[Guest ian garro]

Yep. And even forgetting all media worship and his hapless CV in English football one of his first comments upon joining the club was :

 

“I know Sir Alex is not really a Liverpool man,” said *Hodgson, “so I’m a bit *concerned about my excellent relationship with him.

 

“I sincerely hope he forgives me for moving north and hopefully we can have a glass of wine together, maybe in secret.

 

“I hope that’s how he is going to see it – but he is one of the people I intend to ring to find out.

 

“I rang the Fulham chairman (Mohamed Al Fayed). That was one phone call I had to get out of the way. Alex might be the next one.”

 

Utterly ridiculous. No problem at all with them being friends but having to have his seal of approval and forgiveness for taking the Liverpool job? Fuck off!

 

And unfortunately that was the first of 100s upon 100s of media gaffes after joining us. Just an appalling manager in every single aspect of the game.

 

I didn't really have a problem with all that he said there - it just comes across as old-fashioned. What it does though, is illustrate his complete failure to grasp what the Liverpool job meant/means, one thing that it means is that you don't have to keep toadying to Taggart anymore.

 

More outrageous was his failure to stick up for Torres, when Taggart accused him of cheating, when he won a blatant, stone-wall penalty - because he was terrified.

 

You could pull things like this up all day long, in order to demonstrate why he was the wrong choice. If he had have stayed, I don't see where any upturn in form was coming from ? Torres would still have gone, God knows who would've replaced him, and moral would still have been rock bottom. We finished 6th, because of surge in spirit and moral within the squad, coupled with a different style of play - ie; playing football on the deck, and trying to win. Something Hodgson failed to instill.

 

People questioning the lack of support for him is a bit weird, considering his predecessor was called much worse, accused of all kinds, and had people on these boards openly declaring they wanted Liverpool to lose matches, in order to hasten this departure... Once you start on that road, etc etc etc.

[Strontium]

Yep. And even forgetting all media worship and his hapless CV in English football one of his first comments upon joining the club was :

 

“I know Sir Alex is not really a Liverpool man,” said *Hodgson, “so I’m a bit *concerned about my excellent relationship with him.

 

“I sincerely hope he forgives me for moving north and hopefully we can have a glass of wine together, maybe in secret.

 

“I hope that’s how he is going to see it – but he is one of the people I intend to ring to find out.

 

“I rang the Fulham chairman (Mohamed Al Fayed). That was one phone call I had to get out of the way. Alex might be the next one.”

 

Utterly ridiculous. No problem at all with them being friends but having to have his seal of approval and forgiveness for taking the Liverpool job? Fuck off!

 

And unfortunately that was the first of 100s upon 100s of media gaffes after joining us. Just an appalling manager in every single aspect of the game.

 

 

On the basis of that, the useless old bastard was lucky to get 2 games grace before people started calling him a cunt.

[Joe Le Taxi]

Shut up, KLewlis.

 

See what i did there.

 

Not really, seeing as me saying 'fuck sakes' wasn't directed at anyone. The fuck happened to you anyway? On the offal forums you were a great poster who was the most vocal against H&G and now you act childish.

[Coro]

Not really, seeing as me saying 'fuck sakes' wasn't directed at anyone. The fuck happened to you anyway? On the offal forums you were a great poster who was the most vocal against H&G and now you act childish.

 

haha bless you, all grown up now.

 

So cute.

[Magic Sponge]

[YOUTUBE]kRCSPYDk6rU[/YOUTUBE]

[Kevin D]

I just think it appeared to some to be such an obviously appalling appointment that yes, a lot of people reached conclusions much earlier than previously. Houllier came with a reputation as a moderniser, and so it was obvious that he would need a substantial amount of time to get his message across to the squad we had at the time. When the one thing that Hodgson allegedly had in his favour was that he knew the league, and would therefore 'steady the ship' (shudder), it is just about understandable that a fanbase, large portions of which felt he was well below the required standard to begin with, would expect swift 'ship steadying'.

 

There's also been discussion ad nauseum about the players he bought, and I think the reasons for the perceived lack of support for them come from a similar place. I happen to genuinely think that Konchesky was an even worse left back for the club than Insua and Dossena, but what made it all the worse is that most people knew he was shit. If you asked Spurs supporters, for example, what they thought of him, they pretty uniformly rated him as garbage. Rightly or wrongly, when we sign a young foreign player that I have not heard of before, I am inclined to give them time no matter how shite they appear to be. But I knew Konchesky was shite before we signed him, and was too old to get better, so as much as I did try and support him (as I would all our players and, after all, it wasn't his fault that he was signed by a club that required far, far better than him), I wasn't willing or able to believe that he would ever reach the required standard. If you don't believe in something to begin with, you're not likely to give them the time and space to attempt improvements that you just don't believe are in them to make. I'm not saying that this is necessarily right, and some of the shit thrown Hodgson's way makes me cringe. I'm just so glad that as I write this it genuinely seems like 10 years ago already.

 

I think the salient point is he was a football manager, appointed by - and, if you believe his public pronouncements, which were explicit and oft repeated, subservient to - a non-footballing man for non-footballing reasons.

 

In that context, our response as a fan base was extremely muted; there isn't another big club in the world who would have stood for it.

[Kevin D]

I didn't really have a problem with all that he said there - it just comes across as old-fashioned. What it does though, is illustrate his complete failure to grasp what the Liverpool job meant/means, one thing that it means is that you don't have to keep toadying to Taggart anymore.

 

More outrageous was his failure to stick up for Torres, when Taggart accused him of cheating, when he won a blatant, stone-wall penalty - because he was terrified.

 

You could pull things like this up all day long, in order to demonstrate why he was the wrong choice. If he had have stayed, I don't see where any upturn in form was coming from ? Torres would still have gone, God knows who would've replaced him, and moral would still have been rock bottom. We finished 6th, because of surge in spirit and moral within the squad, coupled with a different style of play - ie; playing football on the deck, and trying to win. Something Hodgson failed to instill.

 

People questioning the lack of support for him is a bit weird, considering his predecessor was called much worse, accused of all kinds, and had people on these boards openly declaring they wanted Liverpool to lose matches, in order to hasten this departure... Once you start on that road, etc etc etc.

 

It is an outrageous comparison. Rafa was routinely accused of conspiring to bring about the destruction of the club. I'm not exaggerating either, that's precisely what was repeated on here. More fair minded posters only accused him of losing games on purpose or trying to get sacked.

 

At no point did the distasteful insults towards Hodgson even approach that.

[mypost]

I knew Konchesky was shite before we signed him, and was too old to get better, so as much as I did try and support him (as I would all our players and, after all, it wasn't his fault that he was signed by a club that required far, far better than him), I wasn't willing or able to believe that he would ever reach the required standard. If you don't believe in something to begin with, you're not likely to give them the time and space to attempt improvements that you just don't believe are in them to make.

 

We bought Konchesky, because we needed a left-back. We had no money that summer, and so we had to shop at Poundworld.

[TheResonator]

Two good posts from Kevin D just above.

 

You can easily tell who the biased posters are because they'll argue anything in favour of one person, and everything against the other.

 

I was never one of those on here calling Hodgson a cunt, but I said before he came to manage us that I felt he was the wrong choice of manager. Kevin puts it better than me but he was appointed by the media. For me, as a supporter of the club, I found and find that humiliating.

 

Nobody we could have appointed at that time would have been fit to manage Liverpool. It was a poisoned chalice. We wound up with a sub-standard candidate -- but the paucity of his conduct exceeded all reasonable expectations, in my opinion. He took full credit for victories, absolved himself of all responsibility for defeats, absolved himself of responsibility for transfer dealings, acted obsequiously towards our rivals through the press, refused to defend the club and players from their detractors, attacked the fans, belittled Kenny, and got us playing some of the worst football I've ever seen... he was just appalling in every respect.

 

People might argue that he didn't have enough time, but would he have taken us, really? Our tactics and away record were terrible but he showed no signs of learning from his mistakes or trying to improve, and his demeanour in the press belied his inability to understand what the club and its history stand for as an institution.

 

We've had our ups and downs with other managers, they've all had their good and bad points, but as far back as I can remember we have never been managed by someone with so few redeeming qualities.

[Einch]

Two good posts from Kevin D just above.

 

You can easily tell who the biased posters are because they'll argue anything in favour of one person, and everything against the other.

 

I was never one of those on here calling Hodgson a cunt, but I said before he came to manage us that I felt he was the wrong choice of manager. Kevin puts it better than me but he was appointed by the media. For me, as a supporter of the club, I found and find that humiliating.

 

Nobody we could have appointed at that time would have been fit to manage Liverpool. It was a poisoned chalice. We wound up with a sub-standard candidate -- but the paucity of his conduct exceeded all reasonable expectations, in my opinion. He took full credit for victories, absolved himself of all responsibility for defeats, absolved himself of responsibility for transfer dealings, acted obsequiously towards our rivals through the press, refused to defend the club and players from their detractors, attacked the fans, belittled Kenny, and got us playing some of the worst football I've ever seen... he was just appalling in every respect.

 

People might argue that he didn't have enough time, but would he have taken us, really? Our tactics and away record were terrible but he showed no signs of learning from his mistakes or trying to improve, and his demeanour in the press belied his inability to understand what the club and its history stand for as an institution.

 

We've had our ups and downs with other managers, they've all had their good and bad points, but as far back as I can remember we have never been managed by someone with so few redeeming qualities.

 

I think you mean no redeeming qualities.