Carragher

[rondeco]

Perhaps.

 

But Carragher's so called decline has can be charted with the fact he lost Alonso and Mascherano infront of him, in the same way people made excuses for Torres, I'm doing it for Carra.

 

For the past 2 years we've had a mediocre midfield, we've had fullbacks injured and un-able to defend, Johnson and Insua.

 

It's only recently we've been able to have some stability with Kelly and Johnson.

 

Once more Carra has been pretty much an ever present in the side, I don't doubt for one iota that he's slowed, but look at what he's had around him? Inconsistent injury prone poor quality defenders. At his age he should be playing a restrictred role, no doubt but he can't, and when put in a settled side, just like everyone else he is okay.

 

That part in bold makes perfect sense. His role should be resitricted but the quality of player isnt there to allow that to happen. The defence is pretty weak at the moment in my opinion. But it's only one or two good players from changing all of that.With kelly and Agger, we have 2 that have potential to be good enough in a title winning defence. The rest fall short due to lack of quality or age. Carra is still essential to the team. For a different reason though.

[redsoxs]

I love this Cara bashing, the hoofing of the ball could from instructions from the manager?

 

"lads get the ball up to Carroll"

[s(k)aturation]

I love this Cara bashing, the hoofing of the ball could from instructions from the manager?

 

"lads get the ball up to Carroll"

 

Of course. Why bash Carra when we can bash Kenny?

 

He's been such a failure getting us from the relegation battle to sixth in virtually as many weeks.

[piscinin]

This is true.

 

But I still believe we have bigger problems at the other end of the pitch.

 

I wouldn't subscribe to the wholesale changes with our centrebacks that some want. Certainly not to bring in people like Ryan Shawcross.

 

Yeah I know what you mean but I think a lot of problems further up the pitch could be solved by having a center back partnership that didn't need the insurance policy of cautious full backs, dedicated holding midfielders, etc let alone extra bodies at the back and in the middle.

[Guest PurpleNose]

Yeah I know what you mean but I think a lot of problems further up the pitch could be solved by having a center back partnership that didn't need the insurance policy of cautious full backs, dedicated holding midfielders, etc let alone extra bodies at the back and in the middle.

 

Who would you keep out of Carragher, Kelly, Greek, Skrtel, Agger, Ayala and Wilson?

 

Who would you like to see us go for if we were to sell any of them?

[INTORRESTING]

Carra is a second captain, he organises the defence and if we put him next to a faster cb who is dominant in the air and get a proper midfield 2 to protect him then he can go on for a while yet.

 

I dont see while his role should be restricted, the better we get the less he will have to do, remember some of the games under rafa? Reina and the defenders barely had anything to do!

 

He is vital to us, some of this criticism is disgraceful. He has some limitations but if we tidy up a few areas of the team he is exactly what we need.

 

By the end of the season he will have the second most appearances in our history - he is a legend and no one can tke that away from him.

 

I would love to see him have four more full seasons at the top and become the player with the most appearances in our history!

 

With regard to centre backs I think we should buy one big, commanding pacy player and keep the rest. I wouldnt sell any of them as I all think they can do a job.

[silverlining]

Carra is a secon captain, he organises the defence and if we put him next to a faster cb who is dominant in the air and get a proper midfield 2 to protect him then he can go on for a while yet.

 

He is vital to us, some of this criticism is disgraceful. He has some limitations but if we tidy up a few areas of the team he is exactly what we need.

 

By the end of the season he will have the second most appearances in our history - he is a legend and no one can tke that away from him.

 

I would love to see him have four more full seasons at the top and become the player with the most appearances in our history!

 

With regard to centre backs I think we should buy one big, commanding pacy player and keep the rest. I wouldnt sell any of them as I all think they can do a job.

 

I think I did a thread about Carragher a while ago, in which I expressed my hatred of Carra being patronised. That somehow he had got to where he is because of his spirit, or determination or whatever. Yeah, that helps. But it's not enough. (And that patronising tone comes across even when people comment on his "last-ditch" interceptions and tackles, like poor slow old Jamie somehow stumbles into these match-saving occasions by accident, or because his legs can't keep up.)

 

The main reason why Jamie Carragher has played so often for Liverpool is quite simple:

 

he's a fucking good footballer and a brilliant defender.

[Red Banjo]

Carra is a second captain, he organises the defence and if we put him next to a faster cb who is dominant in the air and get a proper midfield 2 to protect him then he can go on for a while yet.

 

I dont see while his role should be restricted, the better we get the less he will have to do, remember some of the games under rafa? Reina and the defenders barely had anything to do!

 

He is vital to us, some of this criticism is disgraceful. He has some limitations but if we tidy up a few areas of the team he is exactly what we need.

 

By the end of the season he will have the second most appearances in our history - he is a legend and no one can tke that away from him.

 

I would love to see him have four more full seasons at the top and become the player with the most appearances in our history!

 

With regard to centre backs I think we should buy one big, commanding pacy player and keep the rest. I wouldnt sell any of them as I all think they can do a job.

 

That is never going to happen mate. Cally's record is safe for a while yet. I think Carragher himself would admit he's got 2 years tops, and i think he has a contract which reflects this.

[mht1892]

We looked alot more solid yesterday with Agger back in defence, Carra isnt getting any younger but is far better than Skrtel who in my opinion has gone rapidly downhill, its time he went in the summer.

[piscinin]

Who would you keep out of Carragher, Kelly, Greek, Skrtel, Agger, Ayala and Wilson?

 

Who would you like to see us go for if we were to sell any of them?

 

I don't watch enough football anymore to know who would be worth getting but whoever it is needs to be the new first choice and everyone else needs to move down the pecking order with Soto going.

 

Planning would be so much easier if you could rely on Agger because he's about the only center half who can play well with just about everyone else and in most tactical setups. Everyone else has limitations that in some cases exceed their strengths.

[ritchie]

I love this Cara bashing, the hoofing of the ball could from instructions from the manager?

 

"lads get the ball up to Carroll"

 

Kenny isn't stupid. To suggest Kenny asked Carragher (and Skrtel) to do what he was doing the other night is to suggest that Kenny is basically Sam Allardyce. This is the man who built one of the best pass-and-move football teams the English game will ever see.

 

The fact is we need two ball-playing centre-backs in the squad so Thursday night is not a regular occurence as it was an embarrassment the way Skrtel and Carragher were playing the long balls all game.

 

We need two of them so that if Agger is missing there is someone else. Skrtel and Carragher is not a good partnership. The only good partnerships in our defence is Agger and someone else. If Agger is missing we're rubbish at the back so all this "Carragher is still our best defender" crap is outdated.

 

Yes, he can still be a great out-and-out defender as he proved at Chelsea, but when you need to break a team down, you need to be able to play football as well. Braga had a field day dealing with all those long balls. We could still be plalying now and we wouldn't have scored playing like that. When Agger hasn't played this season he's been badly missed. You can see the difference he makes and the composure he gives to the defence.

[Guest PurpleNose]

I don't watch enough football anymore to know who would be worth getting but whoever it is needs to be the new first choice and everyone else needs to move down the pecking order with Soto going.

 

Planning would be so much easier if you could rely on Agger because he's about the only center half who can play well with just about everyone else and in most tactical setups. Everyone else has limitations that in some cases exceed their strengths.

 

Probably my take on it as well. Although I'd be happy to see Ayala take the Greek's place in the squad.

 

I'm unsure about Skrtel, but don't want him replaced by the flavour of the month English centre back. Cahill looks very good, but the likes of Shawcross, Johnson, Tomkins, Dann etc I'm not convinced will be much of an improvement.

[Lefti]

Did a solid job at RB yeesterday, did a class simple pass to Spearing for his effort in the second half. Don't understand why everyone is ousting him... Not like we have any better options is it? I think we need to focus on what we've got at the club and not what we "need" or may get in the summer.

[piscinin]

Probably my take on it as well. Although I'd be happy to see Ayala take the Greek's place in the squad.

 

I'm unsure about Skrtel, but don't want him replaced by the flavour of the month English centre back. Cahill looks very good, but the likes of Shawcross, Johnson, Tomkins, Dann etc I'm not convinced will be much of an improvement.

 

I'd give Ayala another year on loan. He's still a bit rash, let him work those kinks out through the experience of weekly games. There's no hurry, he's still a couple of years away from having enough experience to be able to play regularly for a top 4 team.

 

Agree about Skrtel it's impossible to be sure about him because he's so ridiculously inconsistent. His problem is that he's just 1% short of the required quality. He can sail through routine games looking like a world beater, but then in some games, where that 1% is key, you begin to notice the vertical headers, the going for the same ball as his partner, the not quite taking responsibility, the not being quite tight enough, etc. He'd be a great third choice but not part of a pairing to build-on.

[redsoxs]

Kenny isn't stupid. To suggest Kenny asked Carragher (and Skrtel) to do what he was doing the other night is to suggest that Kenny is basically Sam Allardyce. This is the man who built one of the best pass-and-move football teams the English game will ever see.

 

The fact is we need two ball-playing centre-backs in the squad so Thursday night is not a regular occurence as it was an embarrassment the way Skrtel and Carragher were playing the long balls all game.

 

We need two of them so that if Agger is missing there is someone else. Skrtel and Carragher is not a good partnership. The only good partnerships in our defence is Agger and someone else. If Agger is missing we're rubbish at the back so all this "Carragher is still our best defender" crap is outdated.

 

Yes, he can still be a great out-and-out defender as he proved at Chelsea, but when you need to break a team down, you need to be able to play football as well. Braga had a field day dealing with all those long balls. We could still be plalying now and we wouldn't have scored playing like that. When Agger hasn't played this season he's been badly missed. You can see the difference he makes and the composure he gives to the defence.

 

To suggest they took it on their own back to hoof the ball, is to suggest that manager as not got control of the players!! i find it funny that Carra & skrtel haven't done the long ball since Crouch was playing... now on the arrival Carroll? the hoof returns? Kenny hasn't got the players from the 80's so he working with what he got, in the best way possible. Also explain why the hoofing still continued during the Sunderland game, yet as soon as Carroll got subbed it stopped? Don't you think Kenny would said something if he himself hadn't suggested the long ball after the Braga game.

Edited March 21, 2011 by redsoxs

[fin-bat]

During Hodgsons time Agger almost got kicked out of the club, but it all changed when Kenny arrived. Agger is now his first choice center back when available. Why ? Because he can play a bit, not only hoof.

[ritchie]

To suggest they took it on their own back to hoof the ball, is to suggest that manager as not got control of the players!! i find it funny that Carra & skrtel haven't done the long ball since Crouch was playing... now on the arrival Carroll? the hoof returns? Kenny hasn't got the players from the 80's so he working with what he got, in the best way possible. Also explain why the hoofing still continued during the Sunderland game, yet as soon as Carroll got subbed it stopped? Don't you think Kenny would said something if he himself hadn't suggested the long ball after the Braga game.

 

Skrtel was a lot more measured and controlled yesterday than on Thursday night and Agger wasn't just booting the ball 60 yards forward every time he got it either. It's completely ridiculous to say that Kenny asked his defenders to play that way on Thursday because it's saying that Kenny is a clueless dinosaur. The fact is, it was Carroll's first start and Skrtel and Carragher as a partnership didn't have the confidence to pass the ball out from the back and treated the ball like a hot potato.

 

Agger comes back in yesterday and it's a lot different. That's why we'll need another defender in the summer who is confident on the ball if we want to be a better footballing side.

[Unrighteous]

To suggest they took it on their own back to hoof the ball, is to suggest that manager as not got control of the players!! i find it funny that Carra & skrtel haven't done the long ball since Crouch was playing... now on the arrival Carroll? the hoof returns? Kenny hasn't got the players from the 80's so he working with what he got, in the best way possible. Also explain why the hoofing still continued during the Sunderland game, yet as soon as Carroll got subbed it stopped? Don't you think Kenny would said something if he himself hadn't suggested the long ball after the Braga game.

 

It's called "THE EASY OPTION". Do you think the players go out there with an all encompassing message? They have to use their brains and assess the best course of action.

 

If they have three options: 1) Punt to Carroll, 2) Pass to Lucas, 3) Pass to other CB

 

What do you think they're going to do? The good football choice is 2 or 3. The easiest path is just to punt it to Carroll, because they know he'll likely win the header.

[INTORRESTING]

That is never going to happen mate. Cally's record is safe for a while yet. I think Carragher himself would admit he's got 2 years tops, and i think he has a contract which reflects this.

 

I think it is a step too far too but it would be great to see it happen!

[ritchie]

I think it is a step too far too but it would be great to see it happen!

 

There's no way he's beating Callaghan's record, so if that's what he's aiming for he'll be left disappointed because he's 200 games short and he'd need to be a first-team regular for at least another 4 or 5 years while staying injury free.

 

500 league games and 750 appearances are more realistic personal targets to go for for Carra. He should defo be second to Cally soon enough.

[redsoxs]

Skrtel was a lot more measured and controlled yesterday than on Thursday night and Agger wasn't just booting the ball 60 yards forward every time he got it either. It's completely ridiculous to say that Kenny asked his defenders to play that way on Thursday because it's saying that Kenny is a clueless dinosaur. The fact is, it was Carroll's first start and Skrtel and Carragher as a partnership didn't have the confidence to pass the ball out from the back and treated the ball like a hot potato.

 

Agger comes back in yesterday and it's a lot different. That's why we'll need another defender in the summer who is confident on the ball if we want to be a better footballing side.

 

Either way your still saying Kenny hasn't got control of the players on the pitch

 

No one is say Kenny's tactics are wrong or dinosaur, what I'm saying...

 

"Kenny hasn't got the players from the 80's so he's working with what hes got, in the best way possible" Now if that means the defender "hoofing" the ball, because at present we don't have quality wings, then so be it....

[Gym Beglin]

I want Carra gone, but circumstances dictate that he's still our best defender.

There needs to be a fresh start, a brave new world, and Carra cannot be part of that at age 33.

 

We need a massive input from the owners this Summer, much like the Mancs 2005/06 Summer signings when they signed Van Der Sar, Vidic, Evra and Foster at the same time.

Best bit of Summer business they did in years, just a complete overhaul of the key components of the defence.

If we are ever to move away from the Carragher-heavy emphasis on our defence, and it's the next healthy step, then we have to follow suit.

 

Baines, Stekelenberg, Samba/Dann/Tompkins.

Been more and more impressed with Samba lately, proper good attitude on him, athletic, and a threat from set-pieces. Arsenal were interested at one stage in the Summer I believe, opting for the brilliant Koscielny instead. Arsene knows a defender when he sees one.

[ritchie]

Either way your still saying Kenny hasn't got control of the players on the pitch

 

No one is say Kenny's tactics are wrong or dinosaur, what I'm saying...

 

"Kenny hasn't got the players from the 80's so he's working with what hes got, in the best way possible" Now if that means the defender "hoofing" the ball, because at present we don't have quality wings, then so be it....

 

It's not about having control of the players. Without Agger the best centre-backs we could put out against Braga were Carra and Skrtel. Now as a partnership they haven't got the confidence to a) defend a highline and b) play the ball out calmly from the back which i'm sure the management (unlike Hodgson) would prefer them to do.

 

What can Kenny do about that in the short term, apart from wait for Agger to get fit?

[the walsh]

some of the stick some fans give him is a fucking disgrace, defending wise he,s still excellent at throwing his body in the way the hoofing of the ball pisses me of i think if we got two new centre halves in the summer id ease him out of the first team but id keep him around the squad.a legend that has been a great servant to the club.

[Jokerman]

His weaknesses are obvious, and they always have been, it just seems recently that people seem to be highlighting them so much more for some reason. He remains our best defender. Whilst Agger is a better footballer and will be important when we want to play from the back a bit more, in pure defensive terms, Carragher is by far and away the best we have. He's reaching the end of his time here, naturally given his age, but he still has a lot to offer us. The bigger question for me is Agger, whether he can stay fit long enough throughout the course of a season for him to play an important role for us. I'd love to see a fully fit Agger complete a season alongside Carragher, it's a fine partnership and with players like Wisdom and Kelly coming through (and to a lesser extent, Wilson and Ayala), it's important that we manage their development carefully and Carragher (and Agger staying fit) can be crucial to that.