Liverpool & China

[WaltonRed]

I cant believe some people on this topic.

 

This club is my be all and end all.

 

Politics & football dont mix.

[PaulMcC]

Just being able to compete with the other top clubs in our bracket around the world will do, we dont need to go mad.

 

Couple of big names and the ability to purchase a player when the chance arises will make me happy.

 

The ground is were the money should be going.

 

Sounds good to me. I wouldn't really likes to spend 200m in one summer.

 

BTW why is Chinese money seen as any worse than say a friend of George Bush's?

[PaulMcC]

I cant believe some people on this topic.

 

This club is my be all and end all.

 

Politics & football dont mix.

 

Tell that Barcelona.

[mickeydocs]

Everyone on this forum wears Chinese made clothes and uses Chinese made products. By doing this we support the Chinese Government. I'm really not sure why people have a problem with a Chinese Investment Consortium investing in Liverpool FC.

 

Afterall RBS borrow money from Eastern money markets.

 

And by the way the UK is high on Amnesty Internationals list of Human Rights abusers.

[Kevin D]

Can't say the human rights abuses concern me. Just a football fan, I suppose.

[rebel23]

Britain has the most judgments against it in the European Court of Human Rights for what it did to Irish people in Northern ireland and other human rights abuses perpetuated throughout the last 40 years, not to mention the routine spying the UK government does on its own people through the Regulatory of Investigatory Powers Act where this week it was revealed that a council had a woman tracked under Anti terror laws to check if she was telling the truth about where she lived after applying for her daughter to go to the local school, not to mention the fact that we're in Afghanistan and Iraq and stand accused of facilitating torture with our coalition "partners" and standing by while American drone planes kill civilians, not to mention what MI5 gets up to and their plans to kill the head of state of Libya, we're really not one to talk about human rights abuses of other countries.

[Strontium]

Everyone on this forum wears Chinese made clothes and uses Chinese made products. By doing this we support the Chinese Government. I'm really not sure why people have a problem with a Chinese Investment Consortium investing in Liverpool FC.

 

 

Er, yes, quite. Whatever you think of China's human rights record, it's a bit late to be worrying about Chinese business involvement in this country, isn't it?

 

This city has a long and distinguished relationship with the Chinese people. The City Council (under the previous administration at least, dunno about this lot) has been sending delegations to Chinese expos for years now to encourage this kind of investment. I don't have a problem with it.

[Torvald Utne]

Hitler has just been found alive and well and he's thrown his name in the ring, anybody bothered about politics now? no? promised a new stadium did he? oh that's ok then.

 

some seriously ignorant people on here.

[G Richards]

Obviously there are serious human rights issues with China. Does this necessarily mean we should be against this deal? It's hard to say.

 

Would this be an opportunity to help bring China further into the international fold? Would this be an opportunity for their people to take hold of the beautiful game in a more meaningful way?

 

I don't see it all as black and white i.e. Government has poor human rights record, therefore no deal.

 

I see it (potentially, because obviously there is lots we don't know about this deal, and it isn't even done yet) as a progressive sort of thing, and just as it could elevate our sporting reach so it could help the biggest nation on earth have better ties with the west.

 

As I said in my first post, it could also be a serious business proposition, rather than an oligarch's or Arab vanity project, as CIC will make loads of money in a huge new market and that would be win-win, which is the essence of a good deal.

[Guest TK-421]

I would be worried about the further erosion of the identity of the club and possibly, by extension, the city itself.

 

The damage caused by the last three years would be nothing compared to what could happen if this goes tits up.

 

I'm very uneasy about it and unable to add much to that until I know more about the nature of any other bids there may be.

[Pony Princess]

Hitler has just been found alive and well and he's thrown his name in the ring, anybody bothered about politics now? no? promised a new stadium did he? oh that's ok then.

 

some seriously ignorant people on here.

 

how can you compare the chinese government to hitler? just because china isn't democratic doesn't make them evil - with a population of 1,300,000,000 it is rather hard to have a democratic framework.

 

Did you know during hard global financial times income tax in china is reduced to make life easier for the masses? The Chinese government makes its decisions quickly and decisively based on handing a population of 1.3bil - compared to our corrupt, greedy politicians basking in the bureacracy that makes every little decision in the UK take forever - while we wage two pointless wars in the Middle East but I guess you think thats a righteous cause as little brown people were suffering :'( Fucking liberals.

 

Go hug a unicorn, hippy.

[Guest TK-421]

how can you compare the chinese government to hitler? just because china isn't democratic doesn't make them evil - with a population of 1,300,000,000 it is rather hard to have a democratic framework.

 

Did you know during hard global financial times income tax in china is reduced to make life easier for the masses? The Chinese government makes its decisions quickly and decisively based on handing a population of 1.3bil - compared to our corrupt, greedy politicians basking in the bureacracy that makes every little decision in the UK take forever - while we wage two pointless wars in the Middle East but I guess you think thats a righteous cause as little brown people were suffering :'( Fucking liberals.

Go hug a unicorn, hippy.

 

Bang out of order. There's no need to throw shit like that around just because he disagrees with you.

[Delmar]

Politics & football dont mix.

 

That is one of the reasons why a football club (any football club) should not be owned by a state. Or even an investment fund controlled by politicians. We could of course have the Norgies put their oil fund money in LFC, but I think they're smarter than that...

 

Many posters here seem to equate a couple of distasteful individuals to a seriously distasteful government. They should think again.

[Whelan]

I work with for the Chinese, and I have a few friends who are chinese, so obviously I am a little bit biased.

But I really enjoy working with them, I like the respect that they have for each other, the way they work together and their long term approach to investments.

As lots of people have pointed out, human rights are a fair concern, but could anybody hand on heart (not Redmist obviously) say that they didn't look at the aftermatch of Katrina, and the contempt that the poor, not just black, population was treated and think 'That is just wrong'?

China isn't involved in two overseas wars, one of which is certainly illegal, for Tibet they will argue Ireland!

Not one country can categorically state that their hands are clean, but with a dictatorship you don't need PR! That to me is the only difference between the actions of China, and the actions of America and Europe, they coat their actions in PR.

[Delmar]

how can you compare the chinese government to hitler? just because china isn't democratic doesn't make them evil - with a population of 1,300,000,000 it is rather hard to have a democratic framework.

 

Did you know during hard global financial times income tax in china is reduced to make life easier for the masses? The Chinese government makes its decisions quickly and decisively based on handing a population of 1.3bil - compared to our corrupt, greedy politicians basking in the bureacracy that makes every little decision in the UK take forever - while we wage two pointless wars in the Middle East but I guess you think thats a righteous cause as little brown people were suffering :'( Fucking liberals.

 

Go hug a unicorn, hippy.

 

Political arguments belong elsewhere, negged. Also go read your history books again...

[Pony Princess]

Bang out of order. There's no need to throw shit like that around just because he disagrees with you.

 

Apologies, wasn't saying he approves of killing Iraqi's etc, just that a lot on this forum seem to be judging other countries governments and ignorning our own. Talking about China being some sleazy, nasty country, with oppressed citizens? Its not on to compare it with Nazi germany. Try looking at what our owngovernment is doing.

 

And our current owners are friends of former President Bush. What the hell is going on here?

[Carra_is_legend]

I will be uneasy until I know the details of their take over.

 

How are they planning to run us? Are they borrowing too? What is the long term plan, especially the stadium? etc

[Ian Sea]

I don't know enough about China's human rights record to make a judgement. I know it's bad (but then again, isn't Britain's?) but I don't really know what's going on over there. If they do take us over, surely becoming involved in Western culture would be a good thing? If it played a part in them improving the way they treat their people then it could only be a good thing but I don't know whether that would happen.

 

Human Rights aside I don't have a problem in being owned by the government of a country. We've lagged behind in this sort of thing before, it would be a nice change to set a precedant and be trail blazers for once.

 

I voted unsure/uneasy as at the moment I don't know enough about the deal to form any real sort of opinion. All I do know is that we need to get rid of Hicks and Gillette and from past experience we're only going to know what type of owners we'll have next when they are in and running the show.

[Whelan]

That is one of the reasons why a football club (any football club) should not be owned by a state. Or even an investment fund controlled by politicians. We could of course have the Norgies put their oil fund money in LFC, but I think they're smarter than that...

 

Many posters here seem to equate a couple of distasteful individuals to a seriously distasteful government. They should think again.

 

If I have understood it correctly (probably not), this is a very similar set up to DIC? I have asked a few of my Chinese colleagues what they think, just to get a feel for the company.

 

I'm certainly not arguing for China, I am pointing out the hypocrisy in us taking the moral high ground! For instance all the talk about Liverpool's Chinese Community, how many of you were aware that in 1946, over three thousand Chinese men, many of whom had english wives and children, were forcibly deported back to China!

 

Despite the fact that they were in Britain in the first place because of the Opium wars (ask the Chinese about that?), most of the trenches in the first world war were dug by Chinese, and yet we still deported thousands of them, splitting families up, leaving thousands of children with no father.

[Pony Princess]

I will be uneasy until I know the details of their take over.

 

How are they planning to run us? Are they borrowing too? What is the long term plan, especially the stadium? etc

 

Given their interest in advertising, its likely the stadium will be high on their list of priorities. Bigger stadium, more room for advertising, naming of stands, corporate facilities etc. A lot of Chinese business is based on long term investment and I can see them wanting to get Liverpool FC debt-free and self-sufficient similar to Arsenal's business model of the stadium bringing in a large profit.

 

Christ, I hope so anyway.

[Guest davelfc]

Hitler has just been found alive and well and he's thrown his name in the ring, anybody bothered about politics now? no? promised a new stadium did he? oh that's ok then.

 

some seriously ignorant people on here.

 

 

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Delmar]

If I have understood it correctly (probably not), this is a very similar set up to DIC? I have asked a few of my Chinese colleagues what they think, just to get a feel for the company.

 

I'm certainly not arguing for China, I am pointing out the hypocrisy in us taking the moral high ground! For instance all the talk about Liverpool's Chinese Community, how many of you were aware that in 1946, over three thousand Chinese men, many of whom had english wives and children, were forcibly deported back to China!

 

Despite the fact that they were in Britain in the first place because of the Opium wars (ask the Chinese about that?), most of the trenches in the first world war were dug by Chinese, and yet we still deported thousands of them, splitting families up, leaving thousands of children with no father.

 

I would not want any entity owned or run by any state or government to own LFC. I do not care if it is China or Abu Dhabi or Norway. I

 

The second issue (the human rights) is a moral judgement. I dislike, or abhor, totalitarian regimes wherever they are, whatever their political persuasion may be. There is no hypocrisy involved here, start e.g. by googling Mao and how many of his own citizens he killed. And how. But it becomes a political argument, now I have to neg myself...

[Unrighteous]

That is true to a certain extent, but their ownership of us would in fact act as some sorts of legitimisation. In reality this is exactly the deal the FA should be rejecting according to the sullied 'Fit and Proper Persons' test. The problem is we're so far down the line now that for the FA to reject the bid would just be completely hypocritical.

 

Oh, I see... I guess Kenny Huang was one of the chinese soldiers suppressing dissidents? No? Perhaps, he physically helped enforce the 'one-child policy', then? Oh, lemme guess... he personally helped to suppress free speech in China?

 

Do fuck off with that bullshit. The league has ok'd yank owners and the US Government is essentially the largest terrorist group on the planet. The league said OK to a PM of Thailand and his "anti-drug" campaign led to the deaths of 3,000+ Thai Citizens! Fuck me!

[Delmar]

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

"The law and its corollaries would not apply to discussions covering genocide, propaganda, eugenics (racial superiority) or other mainstays of Nazi Germany, nor, more debatably, to discussion of other totalitarian regimes, since a Nazi comparison in those circumstances may be appropriate."

[Whelan]

I would not want any entity owned or run by any state or government to own LFC. I do not care if it is China or Abu Dhabi or Norway. I

 

The second issue (the human rights) is a moral judgement. I dislike, or abhor, totalitarian regimes wherever they are, whatever their political persuasion may be. There is no hypocrisy involved here, start e.g. by googling Mao and how many of his own citizens he killed. And how. But it becomes a political argument, now I have to neg myself...

 

I'm not disagreeing with you! But I see the people I work with and that is how I percieve China.

I do understand what you mean, although I misunderstood your original point re; the difference between individuals and governments.