Moores Out?

[Paul]

John, I wrote "shouldn't" not "isn't" and the distinction is important, in my book. I understand the financial realities of modern football, but I don't believe we have to turn Anfield into Mamon to be successful.

[johnb]

I know what you're saying Paul and I understand thet difference between the present indiative and the conditional ;), but the fact is that we all know The Liverpool Way has been usurped by money.

 

We know what it should stand for, but unfortunately - and you'd be a fool to believe otherwise, it no longer exists, outside of a few extra-Club activities run by the supporters, such as the great work done with the HJC and charity events like for the September 11 victims.

 

Anything else is merely grasping the past.

[Paul]

I really don't think it is John. Look at what Arsenal have achieved, and continue to achieve, with comparatively little cash. I recently cited the alternate financial furrow Barcelona plough as an example of what we could be.

 

Obviously cash is essential to reach the top in English football. There are various ways of acquiring it however, and certainly different ways of spending it.

 

Anyway, I side-tracked this away from the Tom's question about Moores. Maybe a better way of answering is to ask "Why isn't he up to the job?". I think he is, for all the reasons outlined above.

[Nunavut Patrick]

johnb you should start on-line grammar tutorials. The sad thing is 4th=1rst. That is so true. If UEFA gave 5th a place in CL then we would be aiming there as well. I long for the day when the only way into the EC was first. But like all sports, television money has ruined it. Look at the final 16 in the EC- three English clubs, three Italian clubs, three Spanish sides. How good was the Valencia-Real final- what a load of shite. Look at the empty seats for CL games. You have to have a phD in mathematics to figure out which ping-pong balls go in which bowl. Co-efficients- this is football, not statistics. There are lies, damned lies and co-efficients.

[Guest tokyojoe]

Football is about money these days. It always has been but it's more obvious now. For us to call for Moores's head is exactly the same as Chelski fans calling for Abramovich's head.

 

Somehow I can't see that happening.

[johnb]

Originally posted by Paul

I really don't think it is John. Look at what Arsenal have achieved, and continue to achieve, with comparatively little cash. I recently cited the alternate financial furrow Barcelona plough as an example of what we could be.

 

Obviously cash is essential to reach the top in English football. There are various ways of acquiring it however, and certainly different ways of spending it.

 

Anyway, I side-tracked this away from the Tom's question about Moores. Maybe a better way of answering is to ask "Why isn't he up to the job?". I think he is, for all the reasons outlined above.

 

Paul,

Think you might be misunderstanding me here. I abhor the cash culture that exists. 6 quid to go on the Kop in 1994, 27 quid in 2004. Now I'm sorry, but that's over 400% inflation.

 

Cut the wage bill, get the Academy flourishing - look what it's produced for Christ's sake - Michael, Robbie, Stevie G, Carra, Little Thommo, Semmy, Macca, Welshy. We don't need to channel everything in to making money.

 

Arsenal is a perfect example. And shows why Gérard's "chequebook football" line was so disingenuous.

 

I believe that there's another way - one which doesn't make fools of us all.

 

It's madness and will end soon in a big mess.

 

Last night I went to see Lens-Bordeaux in the French League Cup - 3 quid in, loads of singing, no stewards telling us to sit down, falgs, drums the lot.

 

Maybe I'm romanticising, but surely that's what we all fell in love with in the first place - a Football Club, not a multinational.

 

Take the soul out of Liverpool and you're left with nothing, I'm afraid.

[Rushian]

johnb - do you really believe Arsenal are not run as a corporate money making entity?

[Guest Nic]

Agree with John101, Moores has given the us more financial independence than any other major club. We've spent plenty of money without selling the club to shareholders like Leeds, Man U or Newcastle. That means that the club can make it's own decisions about transferes or whether to build a new stadium and how much to spend on it. The Moores' are one of the wealthiest families in the country which makes this possible.

 

He's got patience, money, and respect for the club as an institution. All he has to do is deliver the league title on a plate and we'll be happy :sniff:

[aws]

John - "falgs"???Can't make up my mind whether you're advocating more flags or fags at the game.

I think (should have thought that?) we should be told.

[DT]

FAO Tom

 

Why is it the 'Moores backers' who should come up with reasons for him to stay?

 

So far, the only argument against is that he's too pally with managers.

 

The criticism that John has levelled at the club - the commercialisation of everything - would have happened with any chairman, as it's simply necessary to keep this club from becoming just another club like the Leicesters or Aston Villas.

 

Meaning that we have to compete with the big clubs on the financial scene if we are to ever stand a chance of returning to Europe's elite in the long term.

 

We all criticise decisions like introducing a scoreboard - and rightly so - but the club has got to look at ways to make money and let's face it. The merchandise shop of the early 90's next to the Shankly Gates just wasn't appropriate.

 

Things change, and only the most ardent of romantics will claim that the commercial side of things isn't necessary. We can argue that the club has gone too far by introducing PTS and whathaveyou but for too long there has been an untapped market out there.

 

I don't think the club would be able to afford not to look at the commercial side of things. We certainly wouldn't be able to expect to hang onto star players like we do now. (let's not get into the will Owen stay debate now please)

[johnb]

Steve,

Arsenal is obviosuly run as a money-making entity, but I guess it doesn't stick in the throat as much if you're successful. ;)

 

If you are honestly happy with the way LFC has gone, I'd be very surprised.

 

AWS - flags.

[Aidan]

I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the fact that Moores has ploughed a great deal of money into the club over the years. He has done everything in the best interests of the club and yet it's his fault?

 

Christ lads, have we really gone that far down the line that we're blaming our preformance on the pitch on a man who has given himself to LFC for no gain or publicity?

 

I blame the tea-lady, she's shit, too much sugar, too pally with the milkman, isnt strict enough with the underperforming jaffa cakes.

[johnb]

C*nt. ;)

[DT]

Cue the entire ff asking "are you talking to me???" :lol: :lol: :lol:

[johnb]

No, just Aidan. I love the rest of ye. :thumbup:

[Aidan]

twat with gagrenous flaps

[Tom R]

"So far, the only argument against is that he's too pally with managers."

 

I know DT. But that is without doubt the biggest failing any Chairman of any club can ever have.

It means we get stuck with the likes of Souness, Evans, and now Houllier for longer than they ever deserve.

 

A chairman can't have an emotional attachment to teh Manager. he has to be the boss, and he has to be ruthless when called to be so. I don't think Moores has ever been ruthless in his life.

 

I like him as a guy but he is far, far too soft to be running a multinational company (which is unfortunately what we are)

We aren't just a football club anymore, and to think that we are is just plain ignorant or wishful thinking.

 

I hate to say it, but we desperately need a BUSINESS MAN to take things over and push on from here.

Someone who can take a step back and look at things without the Red-tinted specs or the "i'm the Managers mate" head on.

Someone objective who is prepared to make difficult decisions when the facts are staring them in the face. ie. like now.

Someone who will stop giving endless pots of money (even if it is his own money!) to the Manager year on year on year only for him to squander it.

Someone who doesn't see FOURTH place as a success.

Someone who will listen to the fans and actually try and implement some of the excellent suggestions they make such as loyalty cards, a decent ticket office, getting shut of that fucking scoreboard (I've yet to apeak to a single red who wants that there yet we're all completely ignored)

the klast one is petty, but by God it pisses me off!!

 

I've still not heard ONE decent argument as to why Moores is a good Chairman. He quite clearly isn't!! The evidence is there to see:

 

3 managers chosen who haven't been up to the job

3 Managers who have ALL been given too long when they should have been pushed out the door but haven't due to either indecisiveness or blind comradery.

Giving each of these Managers endless amounts of money to buy players that are simply no good for Liverpool FC, year on year.

Hardly ever listening to the fans, at least not on teh important issues.

No Championships or EC's since he has been Chairman.

Our lowest League finish in 30 years under his Chairmanship.

 

Need I really go on...

 

 

He's a good Red and a nice guy, but so are you DT!!

That doesn't qualify you to run a multinational company I'm afraid does it?

If his Daddy wasn't who he was then there's no way on earth that he would be allowed anywhere near our (or anyone elses) boardroom. You can bet your life on that.

 

Basically, just ask yourselves one simple question.

WHEN Houllier finally goes, do you trust Moores to pick our new Manager.... again?

 

I don't.

 

Thrice bitten, thrice shy for me I'm afraid.

[DT]

A couple of things. (This is turning out to be yet another quality thread)

 

"It means we get stuck with the likes of Souness, Evans, and now Houllier for longer than they ever deserve."

 

There could be numerous other reasons why he's been more patient than other chairmen, ofr instance that it's Liverpool tradition to stand by your man. Not saying it's right, not saying it's wrong but it has been the done thing.

 

"Someone who doesn't see FOURTH place as a success."

 

He doesn't. He's said it's the minimum required target each season. I don't see the problem herein. The club has always stated that the primary target is the title. Houllier would appear to have made remarks suggesting otherwise, but let's not blame Moores for this for the time being.

 

"Giving each of these Managers endless amounts of money to buy players that are simply no good for Liverpool FC, year on year."

 

Obviously, he trusts his manager to know more about football than himself. Again, I can't see the problem. I don't think anyone would like things to be like they are in other countries (Denmark is one) where it's not the manager who decides on the buying policy.

 

"I hate to say it, but we desperately need a BUSINESS MAN to take things over and push on from here."

 

We do have the business man there. His name is Rick Parry and he's certainly made some unpopular decisions in the name of business interests.

 

"He's a good Red and a nice guy, but so are you DT!! "

 

Thank you very much, and the same goes for you:yes:

[Tom R]

'tis a good little thread innit? :thumbup:

 

"it's Liverpool tradition to stand by your man. Not saying it's right, not saying it's wrong but it has been the done thing."

 

Well then I say screw tradition for once. I'm sick of being left behind by the likes of Man U, Arsenal, and now even Chelsea for fucks sake!!! Just because we refuse to ever change our ways. I'm sick of the "we are Liverpool, we do it the Liverpool way, blah balh blah". It's fucking bollocks.

Things have to change.

 

If ever there was time for a change of tradition then it is now imo.

 

If you refuse to change and move forward with the times then it's a simple fact that you will stay where you are or, even worse, go backwards.

Sound familiar?

 

I'm not saying we forget the values we hold as a club, but we need to start viewing it as a business as well as a football club.

 

Prime example. We were the LAST team in the EPL to get an official website. It is now the most visited footy website on earth. How many millions did we miss out on there through our failure to "break with tradition"?

Man united has there site a good 3 or 4 years before we did, selling merchandise all over the world and helping them forge even further ahead of us.

 

Fuck me, even Ackrington Stanley had a website before we did!!*

 

That's just one more example of how "tradition" and the "we're a football club not a business" attitude given out by the likes of Moores down the years have left us trailing behind.

 

 

Oh, and please!!! Don't even get me started on Prick Arry!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*erm.... probably.

[Anubis]

Tom - appreciate your argument but does this squre with what appears to be a potential downturn in the fortunes of Premiership clubs with the EEC's inaiatance on spreading the viewing rights around.

 

Isn't this going to lead to a downturn in revenue? Can we really rely on football continuing to be the middle-class weekend preoccupation of choice? You do tend get the feeling that there are so many people digging into the football pie that at some point the bubble will burst.

[johnb]

"I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the fact that Moores has ploughed a great deal of money into the club over the years. He has done everything in the best interests of the club and yet it's his fault?"

 

You really think everything he does is in the best interests of the Club?

 

Like hanging on to Souness after what he did - he should have been sacked immediately?

 

Like bringing in the joint-managers which made us a laughing stock (some things never change)?

 

Like not getting rid of Gérard in the summer.

 

As Tom says, "thrice bitten, thrice shy". We hear all these stories of him fuming after matches and being unhappy with the way things are going, but he just wanders obliviously on.

 

No one is blaming shit performances week in, week out on Moores: what we blame him for is his inability to act decisively.

 

A majority of people on here now realise that GH isn't up to the job - by that I mean winning the Title. That means this season has been wasted. And GH should have been sacked in the summer.

 

For that not happening, Moores is to blame. I don't give a fuck how much money he puts in - I don't doubt that he's done too badly out of it himself.

 

Incidentally, in your opinion, whose fault is the current mess we're in?

[Aidan]

Yours, you fucking cunt!

 

Hungover at the moment, off for a bacon sandwich and a shite, will be back with an argument later.

[johnb]

Yours, you fucking cunt!

 

Hungover at the moment, off for a bacon sandwich and a shite, will be back with an argument later.

:biggrin:

 

You drink too much, you insult me too much and you use the word "shite" too much.

[Kopite]

Yeah just think we could end up with someone like Grimsdale, sorry Ridsdale. The shy, retiring and media-allergic ex-chairman of Leeds.

 

This man makes Posh look postively secretive!

 

I can't knock Moores myself, he's invested an awful lot of his cash in the club and keeps a low profile.

 

Compare him to the bellend across the Park who hasn't invested anything substantial in the club "that makes him cry" and is coming out with soundbytes that would make even GH vomit into his Beaujolais Nouveau and Filet Mignon aux Oignons - Gratin Dauphinois (Pork Filet Mignon with Onions - Dauphiné oven baked potatoes). :drool:

[goatboy59]

He's not Ridsdale and he's not Kenwright.

 

Well, that's me well and truly convinced.......... :whistle:

 

Think you'll find that it's our huge turnover, provided by the sponsors and our unbelievablt loyal world-wide support, that is providing funds for the manager(s), and the steep increase in turnover is probably down to Rick Parry. Moores might have dipped into his own pocket occasionally (eg the Anny Road 2nd tier I believe) but it was the CL/Fowler money that bought Diouf Diao and Cheyrou oh joy of joys.

 

If Kewell had not been a bargain, we wouldn't have had a sniff of him. The squad is woefully weak, so what will be spent in January? Not much, I'll bet.

 

The arguments over Houllier AND Moores seem to settle on this "better the devil you know" basis. Yes, there are some fucking awful chairmen/managers around - but settling for Houllier and Moores is just like settling for 4th.

 

Not the Liverpool FC I know and love.