What cost us the league?

[Brownie]

It's late, i'm recovering from surgery, no fucker is about to have a debate with about footy so i'm just going to spark some debate for the morning!

 

I know that some people will hit back to this thread with, 'the league isn't over yet', 'the Mancs WILL lose both games', or 'BELIEVE' but fuck it, for me the Wigan result has ended all hope.

 

I said I would judge Rafa at the end of the season and all I would say on that score is that I wouldn't be looking to make any changes this summer with regards to the manager and that we have made considerable progress in the league. I don't want this thread to be about Rafa because i'll be starting another thread on that score; I want your views on where the title was lost.

 

I don't want a slanging match, I want a reasoned, intelligent debate that this place is still capable of. Now I know that these options I give in the poll may cause debate amongst themselves but that's the nature of the beast with these polls - it always happens. Some of the options may seem outrageous to some, but i've tried to include all of the reasons that i've seen stated on the forum throughout the course of the season.

 

I appreciate that some of the options are closely connected and in reality, the answer to this question is probably a combination of them but I want you to select the MAIN reason for us not winning the league this season. In every scenario, there are multiple factors, but there is always a MAIN reason, so what is yours?

[Anubis]

Sorry mate, but until Saturday I'm just not prepared to give it up. I will, however, return to the thread should they get the point they need.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

I really do not understand how Rafas tactics can be given as a reason as to what cost us the league.

 

Because its those exact tactics which means we challenged in the first place.

 

As the poster above said, wont give up hope yet, our anthem is all about not giving up hope.

 

But if we do lose the league, its simple -

 

Robbie Keane

 

He was our big buy and it didnt work. If we rewound the season, told Rafa Keane would not work and gave him the 20m to spend elsewhere, i assure you, 100%, that we would have won this title a week or so ago.

 

Because its one of those flops that are hard to imagine. I never did agree with buying him but i never ever thought he would flop so badly. Iv never seen a player miss so many sitters in my life.

 

But we will be okay. Because i just cant see Rafa making that mistake again. Torres, Mascherano - the other two times Rafa has spent big, hes got it completely spot on. And i think he will this summer.

 

P.S. i think we will spend close to 45m this summer. Believe it or not. And more if Alonso goes (who will only leave for 27m upwards),

[Unrighteous]

Honestly? It's down to the utter failure in last summer's transfer market and Torres/Gerrard being injured far too much this season.

[Herp McDerp]

Squad too weak because we couldn't bring in anyone of a sufficient quality to cover for Gerrard & Torres. Keane was supposed to be that man, but turned out to be cack. I'm not saying that we need a backup player of Torres's quality or anything, just restating what has been said by many on here already,that a decent backup striker would do. I don't think we need backup for Gerrard anymore as Yossi has proven that he can perform at a high level consistently now.

 

Nice poll by the way you bastard, like one of those questions you get on an exam, pick the MAIN reason, no's 1-3 and 6& 7 are practically all interrelated, without one there wouldn't be the other etc...(hahaha, just jokes, you don't need to kill the indian guy)

[snez1]

12 games together. When Torres was missing we had some awfu results, he could have made the difference.

[anfieldchina]

Hi Brownie, hope you get well soon.

 

I find that we lack a certain ruthlessness in our play, especially in front of goal. Too many players in the squad, are for the lack of better words, quite mediocre. I appreciate the efforts of the entire team, but I kept feeling that many players just don't quite cut it. Even when we are winning well of late, I find goals coming in as a result of doggedly grinding down opposition instead of breathless creative sparks.

 

I blame Gillette and Hicks for not having the capacity to finance a bigger squad of top players. If other clubs strengthen their squads, we may be in danger of challenging for 4th place, year after year. If Gillette and Hicks cannot afford the dreams and aspirations of this club, they should just magnanimously admit it and pass on the mantle to someone else who can.

[Herp McDerp]

Hi Brownie, hope you get well soon.

 

I find that we lack a certain ruthlessness in our play, especially in front of goal. Too many players in the squad, are for the lack of better words, quite mediocre. I appreciate the efforts of the entire team, but I kept feeling that many players just don't quite cut it. Even when we are winning well of late, I find goals coming in as a result of doggedly grinding down opposition instead of breathless creative sparks.

 

 

I blame Gillette and Hicks for not having the capacity to finance a bigger squad of top players. If other clubs strengthen their squads, we may be in danger of challenging for 4th place, year after year. If Gillette and Hicks cannot afford the dreams and aspirations of this club, they should just magnanimously admit it and pass on the mantle to someone else who can.

 

 

The team that is on course to win the title has ground out more ugly wins this season than us. We are the fittest team arround, it would be daft not to run the opposition into the ground. You must have missed quite a few of our goals this season as well if you think we havn't scored as a result of "creative sparks" as you put it. And that bit I've bolded in your post makes me think you're living in an alternate reality of some sort.

[Ronnie]

While I was happy to see someone stand up to slur Alex, I think that's what costed us the league.

 

It surely had an impact on our player. They were not flowing after that rant. And I'd like to believe that it only gave slur Alex more things to fire up his players. Just like when he (Rafa) talked about Drogba before CL semi last season and he was so fired up and we couldn't handle him. (Accepted that even though at his normal 'in form,' Drogba is still difficult to play against.)

 

I noticed that Ferguson's 'mind game' is always trying to get his opposition carried away. Our 'mind game' only make them more focused. We had players saying 'they will slip up blah blah blah' and that perfectly gave them more reason to be more focused.

 

Well I'm not a psychiatris so you can just ignore my comment!

[Strontium]

Luck. If a perfectly good goal against Stoke is allowed to stand, if Man U don't get a ludicrous penalty awarded to them against Spurs, if Robert Green hadn't performed heroics against us at Anfield... we've just been unlucky.

 

Of couse it's nice if you have things that can mitigate against bad luck (such as a stronger squad, fewer injuries etc) but it's these small things which either go for or against you that ultimately dictate what happens.

[philyhamann]

Benitez's failure in the transfer market, and his failure at tactics for most of the first half of the season. If we took the shackles off, and didn't change our tactics from last season we would be a-ok. Not sure Gerrard/Torres had anything to do with it considering we were still playing pretty badly with both of them in there. Again, not having cover for Torres is failure in the transfer market - we spent 20m on a striker who blatantly wasn't good enough.

[philyhamann]

Luck. If a perfectly good goal against Stoke is allowed to stand, if Man U don't get a ludicrous penalty awarded to them against Spurs, if Robert Green hadn't performed heroics against us at Anfield... we've just been unlucky.

 

Of couse it's nice if you have things that can mitigate against bad luck (such as a stronger squad, fewer injuries etc) but it's these small things which either go for or against you that ultimately dictate what happens.

 

Or deflected goals against Chelsea, or own goals against Man Utd or or or..

[millomred]

If we win our last 2 fixtures we will finish with 86 points , which on probably 8 times out of 10 would be more than enough to win the league, I think that as much as we hate to say it The Mancs have just had an exceptional season and we probably have just been really unlucky .

Over a season most if not all teams drop silly points and can say we should have won this game or we should have won that game we have been no exception.But I really do belive that the difference this season is that the Mancs have just benefited from a better squad and a bit more luck than us.

[kacangpool]

it was due to several reasons, each affecting in small ways - tactics, rafa's contract negotiations, the fractious board, injuries to key players, mistakes by players / players indifferent form, robbie keane. but i feel the main reason is that we didn't have enough belief. the pressure of leading the pack seemed a bit much.

[Catch22]

No-one has ever won the PL from our relative financial position (4th)

 

That doesn't mean that no team ever will but that should be the starting basis for discussion.

 

Then the question is "Why have we done so well?"

Quickly i would say Rafa's ability to over-achieve which is better than anyother coach this decade if you look at 2 La Ligas & 1 CL, the good luck of having the genius of Gerrard due to the accident that arguably the best player in the world is locally born & short term the good luck that all our rivals fucked up in the summer (Big Phil, Flamini & Berbatov)

 

Going forward can we be the 1st to break the record?

Hopefully but it will be a hell of an achievement & require a lot of luck.

[JustTosh]

Whart cost us the league?

One word: Overcautiousness

[Ian Sea]

I think all of the above are factors in us not winning it (if, in fact, we don't) but I'd have to say that the main one for me would be the injuries to Torres and Gerrard. If they'd played together more then I'm sure we'd have had more points.

 

This though brings up the problems I perceive Rafa to have made, especially in team selections. When Torres was out we persisted with 1 up front, usually Kuyt or Keane, but I don't think either can play that role. If we'd gone with 2 up front in Torres' absence then I think we may have achieved better results than we did.

 

Also, the squad's strength comes into question, as without Torres and Gerrard we weren't strong enough to produce title winning form (over a season) but who wouldn't miss 2 of the best players in the world? This in turn is due to a lack of financial resources.

 

And as SD says above, there is always the question of luck throughout a season but I do think this tends to even itself out eventually.

 

For me, the injuries to our 2 best players probably cost us, but there were other factors too.

[spider-neil]

I think it was going to the top of the league too early. we played like demons to go top and are playing like demons to get back to the top but when we WERE top we tried to consolidate it rather than trying to streach the lead further, I mean not gambling enough when drawing rather we made sure we didn't lose to ensure the point to keep us ahead of chelsea.

 

it also didn't help that manu had games in hand rather than points on the board, had manu had actual points on the board and were actually breathing down our necks early jan/feb maybe we would have gone for wins more.

 

I don't think the injuries were that big a deal, we beat the likes of chelsea and manu without torres and gerrard.

[hamstrung]

As ever, the truth is a little from the top, some from the middle, and a sprinkle of the bottom.

 

An option for "Man United's relentless ability to win" might also have ben appropriate.

[Thants]

13 and 4. If United lost Ronaldo for as much as we lost Torres we'd have won the league. That gives me hope.

[Antynwa]

The tactics employed v the lesser teams at home this season well and truly fucked us.

 

Oh and signing Robbie Keane.

[Paulie Dangerously]

Stupid mistakes by players who shouldn't have been on the pitch.

[Lurtz]

Benitez's failure in the transfer market, and his failure at tactics for most of the first half of the season. If we took the shackles off, and didn't change our tactics from last season we would be a-ok. Not sure Gerrard/Torres had anything to do with it considering we were still playing pretty badly with both of them in there. Again, not having cover for Torres is failure in the transfer market - we spent 20m on a striker who blatantly wasn't good enough.

 

 

I'm with Philly. We had some frankly ridiculous results against teams we should have battered. We are Liverpool FC and we should be putting to bed the likes of Hull, Middlesbrough and Stoke. If we'd picked up the points we ought to have in those games we'd be home and dry by now. The buck has to stop with the manager doesn't it? Do you see the mancs, the chavs or the gooners falling apart when they have one or two major players out injured? No, because they have invested in other decent players who'll do a job for them. (Well, not the gooners maybe but you get my drift bro.)

 

I had my doubts about Rafa earlier in the season but now we've proved what we can do over the latter part of this season (Boro aside) I'm hopeful that we can finally get it together next season. But Rafa has to perform in the transfer market. No more fucking duds.

[Thants]

If only it's that easy. Of course United won all their games against the lesser teams. Keane was a mistake but I don't think there were too many others.

[Scott_M]

Missing Gerrard & Torres.

 

IMO opinion, anybody who says Rafa needs his head examining.

 

Yes, he's made mistakes this season but IMO, he's the main reason we're up there.