Evertons move to Kirkby

[dennis tooth]

Don't be daft the two situations are not even comparable. They're apples and Oranges.

 

The credit crunch was a result of people being given mortgages when their current income was only sufficient to cover the interest. The understanding was that the principal would be covered by equity and appreciation. That is an entirely different bet. We've got a good as guaranteed 40-70% increase in match day revenue with which to service the debt.

 

But this is recreation, leisure or whatever industry that always loses out in harsh economic times.

Also I'd say the credit crunch was caused firstly by overvaluations in property by sheer greed. That is why it happened. 15 years ago those people could have paid their mortgages off.

[SpeedyG]

But this is recreation, leisure or whatever industry that always loses out in harsh economic times.

Also I'd say the credit crunch was caused firstly by overvaluations in property by sheer greed. That is why it happened. 15 years ago those people could have paid their mortgages off.

 

But the bet is that the pent up demand (waiting list etc) exceeds the contraction caused by "recession". It's a bet I would take, especially for a 15% return.

 

Overvaluation is definitely a factor not THE cause though. Regardless of the price of the property, you shouldn't be lending more money than people can afford to pay based on their income.

[dennis tooth]

But the bet is that the pent up demand (waiting list etc) exceeds the contraction caused by "recession". It's a bet I would take, especially for a 15% return.

 

Overvaluation is definitely a factor not THE cause though. Regardless of the price of the property, you shouldn't be lending more money than people can afford to pay based on their income.

 

Like I say, if they had lent mortgages to homeless jobless bums then I'd agree with you but the problem was banks investors whoever wanted more to lend less. The result it that they had to 'facilitate' a property market price increase.

People had pay for it.

 

I mean, even here, 15 years ago, you could buy a basic property for about £18,000 now it's £100,000.

[SpeedyG]

Like I say, if they had lent mortgages to homeless jobless bums then I'd agree with you but the problem was banks investors whoever wanted more to lend less. The result it that they had to 'facilitate' a property market price increase.

People had pay for it.

 

I mean, even here, 15 years ago, you could buy a basic property for about £18,000 now it's £100,000.

 

That sounds like a conspiracy theory. Property prices are a function of supply/demand and inflation. It's the sellers that set the price not the bank.

[dennis tooth]

That sounds like a conspiracy theory. Property prices are a function of supply/demand and inflation. It's the sellers that set the price not the bank.

 

I don't do conspiracy theories.

The banks have facilitated the outrageous lending, have they not? This leads to people asking more for their properties as bigger mortgages are easily available. Otherwise people would not ask for a price that could not be attained for an average house for fear of their house not selling.

 

There is no other way (Not that I can think of) that could explain the surge in property values and the surge in people who cannot get on the property ladder, having been completely shut out of the process even at the bottom end of the market. Not even the 'landlord boom'.

 

If you cannot get a mortgage you can afford the next best thing is to get one you can't afford.

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

The secondary market will fill the void, it is far more risk tolerant than the banks, which BTW have very little liquidity anyway. I'm sure H&G would rather pay more interest from the facilitated revenue than put their hands in their own pockets, esp. that much as they just don't have it.

 

If this is the case, why are we still waiting for them to start building?

[The Acolyte]

The secondary market will fill the void, it is far more risk tolerant than the banks, which BTW have very little liquidity anyway. I'm sure H&G would rather pay more interest from the facilitated revenue than put their hands in their own pockets, esp. that much as they just don't have it.

 

By secondary you mean hedge funds right?

The interest we're paying right now has hindered Rafa what do you think that will do to him.

He'd really have to flog players he wants to keep and that would be to service the interest not even to buy new players.

[The Acolyte]

If this is the case, why are we still waiting for them to start building?

 

Very true.

Maybe the guarantee's they had to stipulate didn't sit well with them.

[dennis tooth]

Red, regards property, I'm talking about the initial surge, all else is just the average persons response to it, getting on the gravy train, as in the dot com boom.

[SpeedyG]

If this is the case, why are we still waiting for them to start building?

 

Hedge funds are the lender of last resort. They will charge anywhere between 5 & 10% more than a traditional lender. You would only use them if you couldn't secure funding elsewhere.

 

I suspect that we will end up, like Manure and Arsenal, with the funding sourced from a number of different entities.

 

Note, I'm not saying that they will go with the hedge funds, just that they have that option and so don't bank on the fact that they can't get money from the banks as being a catalyst for them going.

[SpeedyG]

By secondary you mean hedge funds right?

The interest we're paying right now has hindered Rafa what do you think that will do to him.

He'd really have to flog players he wants to keep and that would be to service the interest not even to buy new players.

 

You are spot on there. Interest rates with hedge funds are punitive. They are definitiely the lender of last resort. Hell, let's cut to the chase, they are basically loan sharks.

[SpeedyG]

I don't do conspiracy theories.

The banks have facilitated the outrageous lending, have they not? This leads to people asking more for their properties as bigger mortgages are easily available. Otherwise people would not ask for a price that could not be attained for an average house for fear of their house not selling.

 

There is no other way (Not that I can think of) that could explain the surge in property values and the surge in people who cannot get on the property ladder, having been completely shut out of the process even at the bottom end of the market. Not even the 'landlord boom'.

 

If you cannot get a mortgage you can afford the next best thing is to get one you can't afford.

 

I see where you are coming from now and agree. There are many other factors as well though, for example, and I think it is the same in the UK, there was a massive increase in the # of Buy to Lets which increased demand and hence led to bidding wars which drove prices up in excess of inflation.

[Dougie Do'ins]

Having read all the posts in the thread I think something needs to be made clear to some people.

 

Ground share or not Liverpool city council will not be contributing towards the cost of any stadium at all. Like all councils up and down the country their skint.

Only a very small percentage of people from the city attend Anfield or the pit. Why should people who have no interest in either club pay towards a stadium via their council tax.

 

NWDA money.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but any money from NWDA will not be spent on the construction of the ground. I think its to help with the infrastructure in the area. Roads the Anfield plaza, the work in the park and G+H are expected to chip in with this also. If the stadium construction doesn't go ahead G+H would have to pay back money already spent. Not to sure how much but its a few million already.

[bobhorse]

Bill Kenwright on desert Island Discs

 

Bye Bye kirkby Kirkby Bye Bye

Stupid Kirkby Love

Club for Sale

Its not The Leaving Of Liverpool

T.E.S.C.O

[robslappa]

Having read all the posts in the thread I think something needs to be made clear to some people.

 

Ground share or not Liverpool city council will not be contributing towards the cost of any stadium at all. Like all councils up and down the country their skint.

Only a very small percentage of people from the city attend Anfield or the pit. Why should people who have no interest in either club pay towards a stadium via their council tax.

 

NWDA money.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but any money from NWDA will not be spent on the construction of the ground. I think its to help with the infrastructure in the area. Roads the Anfield plaza, the work in the park and G+H are expected to chip in with this also. If the stadium construction doesn't go ahead G+H would have to pay back money already spent. Not to sure how much but its a few million already.

 

That first bit about the Council makes sense.

 

I'm pretty sure that I've been told in the past (although it would have been a while ago) that the NWDA would make funds available for a joint stadium as it would benefit the whole city and not just one club. The thought behind it was that it would also be used for concerts, etc. and wouldn't lie empty in the summer.

[Dicko]

It'll never happen. If they think the Kirkby residents kicked up a fuss, it'll be nothing compared to the shit that'll be thrown round here if there's a match every week.

[Dougie Do'ins]

Liverpool Echo.co.uk - News - Liverpool Local News - Everton FC stadium buy-up of Kirkby town centre begins

 

 

Knowsley Council will agree in principle to use compulsory purchase orders to buy up Kirkby town centre

 

KNOWSLEY council will set the ball rolling on a mass buy-out of Kirkby town centre next week.

 

The move comes four months ahead of a final decision on Tesco and Everton FC’s £400m scheme for the town.

 

The council claims the buy-out will save time and money if the secretary of state approves the stadium and superstore plans. But opponents said they were astonished at the timing and extent of the new orders.

 

KNOWSLEY is paving the way for Everton FC’s proposed move to Kirkby by fast-tracking compulsory purchase orders on the whole town centre.

 

The council’s cabinet will agree in principle plans to snap up the entire town estate at a meeting next week.

 

The mass buy out, underwritten by Tesco, will only go ahead if the controversial £400m plans for a supermarket and stadium south of the town centre are approved by the secretary of state.

 

But despite this decision still being four months away Knowsley is pressing ahead – to the astonishment of opponents.

 

Executive director of regeneration Nick Kavanagh said: “Due to the lengthy timescales that would be involved in any CPO process, this report is being considered now, at the highest decision-making level we have, in order that if a positive planning decision is reached, land can be assembled to allow for the Destination Kirkby regeneration project to be delivered as quickly as possible.”

 

The CPO will only be used if Tesco fails to persuade land-owners to sell.

 

But a report to the cabinet by council chief executive Sheena Ramsey said: “While positive discussions have taken place with the key landowners within the proposed CPO area regarding the acquisition of their interests, significant delay in acquiring those interests could be prejudicial to the delivery of the project.”

 

Tony Barton, of Kirkby Residents Action Group and 1st4Kirkby, claimed the move suggested the council was prepared to force through the CPOs no matter what.

 

 

Knowsley Council will agree in principle to use compulsory purchase orders to buy up Kirkby town centre

 

He said: “The nightmare scenario for Kirkby residents is for Tesco to own the land both north and south of Cherryfield Drive to do with it as they wish, or not do anything with it, as the case may be.

 

“And this is clearly what our council is hell-bent on achieving for Tesco, regardless of the residents' and traders' objections.”

 

Leader of Knowsley’s opposition Cllr Ian Smith said: “The way the council is carrying on makes you believe they know something about the decision that no one else does.

 

“It looks like the map is going to be swept clean and for those born and bred in Kirkby this must be a distressing state of affairs.”

 

The council report to the cabinet from chief executive Sheena Ramsey admits there is likely to be plenty of objection to the buy up and possibly a second public inquiry into any CPO.

 

This could hit ultimately cause further delays to the scheme.

 

The council also announced this week it has handed Tesco 19 hectares – the size of 19 football pitches – to the south of Cherryfield Drive as part of the same project.

 

Opponents have long argued the land is being sold off far below its real value.

[Anubis]

Good to see a council bending over and taking it up the arse from a corporation. The truth is that it won't matter if the stadium is approved or not because Tesco will happily drop it, and resubmit plans without a stadium that'll be approved by the Council. I suspect that's why the Council are happy to start the compulsory purchase. Shocking, but true.

[Bourbon]

The thing is lets just say we decide on groundshare and the stadium comes to £400 million, we can not afford £200 million and i doubt Everton can as well.

 

The owners are skint and would not be able to get their part of the money for groundshare.

 

I said this a few weeks ago when Bradley spouted more of his diorrhea.

 

They can't afford the projected 80-100m for the Kirkby thing never mind at least double that for the joint facility.

[Stevie P]

Bradley is banking on a big FA backed, public funded, shared monstrosity as part of the WC bid. The yanks would go for it in a flash.

[Bourbon]

Bradley is banking on a big FA backed, public funded, shared monstrosity as part of the WC bid. The yanks would go for it in a flash.

 

How do you know either?

[Stevie P]

These things just come to me, I don't know.

 

Who is responsible for the Hysel Blears tag?

 

That's class.

[diego]

On another thread today, there is a report that Hicks is now the recipient of an emergency loan from the league in order to pay the salaries and operational cost of his baseball team. This is in addition to his defaulting on existing loans.

 

According to the league the loan has been provided on the understanding that he is selling the team and that the sale will be done soon and no later than the end of the season.

 

The measures that G&H have taken to secure the manager at LFC, appoint a director of finance and a managing director and find a CEO, suggests to me they are getting the club ready either for sale, in whole or part, or for a flotation.

 

A flotation might work in that it could raise an additional couple of hundred million either to reduce existing debt or secure a construction loan for the stadium.

[The Acolyte]

On another thread today, there is a report that Hicks is now the recipient of an emergency loan from the league in order to pay the salaries and operational cost of his baseball team. This is in addition to his defaulting on existing loans.

 

According to the league the loan has been provided on the understanding that he is selling the team and that the sale will be done soon and no later than the end of the season.

 

The measures that G&H have taken to secure the manager at LFC, appoint a director of finance and a managing director and find a CEO, suggests to me they are getting the club ready either for sale, in whole or part, or for a flotation.

 

A flotation might work in that it could raise an additional couple of hundred million either to reduce existing debt or secure a construction loan for the stadium.

 

To me its saying something completely different. They're putting all their eggs in one basket in sports ownership and pinning it on Liverpool. Would hate that as much as the debt they've lumbered on us!