Queers as foster parents

[Stu Monty]

Right. Something has fucked up in the merge as the poll was clearly there when I had it as a seperate thread. I'll give it a few minutes to see if Stu can sort it. If not, I'll re-do it and have to keep it seperate, unfortunately.

 

Did you have a time limit on the poll, that might have fucked it up and closed the poll?

 

I did everything by the book, don't blame me.

[Paul]

Did you have a time limit on the poll, that might have fucked it up and closed the poll?

 

I did everything by the book, don't blame me.

 

Nope. I just put my options in and hit the "Submit Poll" button. It must be a bug or something. I'll just do a seperate thread.

[Stu Monty]

Nope. I just put my options in and hit the "Submit Poll" button. It must be a bug or something. I'll just do a seperate thread.

 

Yeah, a bug. If we both stick to that story then we'll be fine.

[Strontium]

I agree that there is a government and media agenda to 'normalise' homosexuality.

 

Umm, what's abnormal about it then?

 

The powers that be have done their best to make homosexuality as normal as being straight and to do so have given them equal rights in everything. Or in some cases more rights.

 

Gay people do not have more rights in anything.

 

As far as homo adoptions go, it's just plain wrong. I'm not saying they're not good people or have a lot to offer a child. You can't fuck about with a child's upbringing and that's exactly what this new trendy way of thinking is doing. Acceptable or not such a child WILL get a hard time from their peers and will miss out on having the influence of the missing mother/father.

 

I presume you're in favour of a ban on single parent adoption then, since they will miss out on the "influence of a missing mother/father"?

 

If you chose a certain lifestyle them you can expect to limit life's options accordingly, but the welfare of children is paramount and same-sex parenting is not what's best.

 

I presume you have some evidence that same-sex parents are inferior then?

[Section_31]

Umm, what's abnormal about it then?

 

 

Homosexuality is considered a genetic deviation 'from the norm' in medical circles, which you already know I'm sure.

[Strontium]

Homosexuality is considered a genetic deviation 'from the norm' in medical circles, which you already know I'm sure.

 

Umm, no it isn't. Abnormality has a very specific medical definition, and homosexuality is not abnormal under that definition. Nor is it a "genetic deviation"; it has nothing to do with genetics.

[thechap]

Umm, no it isn't. Abnormality has a very specific medical definition, and homosexuality is not abnormal under that definition. Nor is it a "genetic deviation"; it has nothing to do with genetics.

 

Genetic, social, cultural or whatever it is that makes someone homosexual, 9 out of 10 people are straight. That makes it the norm.

If you're going to come back at me then don't ask silly questions. You know perfectly well that homosexuality is not 'the norm' and unless you've had your eyes closed for the past 10 years, it has in the media and in law been put on an equal footing with heterosexuality.

[thechap]

Umm, no it isn't. Abnormality has a very specific medical definition, and homosexuality is not abnormal under that definition. Nor is it a "genetic deviation"; it has nothing to do with genetics.

 

And throw away your 18th century medical books. Abnormality does not have a 'very specific medical definition'. It simply means something deviating from the norm. There are countless examples and degrees of abnormality. Hardly 'very specific'.

[Strontium]

Genetic, social, cultural or whatever it is that makes someone homosexual, 9 out of 10 people are straight. That makes it the norm.

 

So presuably white people are abnormal too, since they constitute a minority of all people in the world?

 

If you're going to come back at me then don't ask silly questions. You know perfectly well that homosexuality is not 'the norm'

 

I do? Well it might be less common than heterosexuality, but I contend that this doesn't make it abnormal. I think you're confusing the terms "common" and "normal". Homosexuality is entirely normal insofar as it has been part of humanity since time immemorial.

 

and unless you've had your eyes closed for the past 10 years, it has in the media and in law been put on an equal footing with heterosexuality.

 

It's on an "equal footing" because there's no reason to discriminate agianst someone in law because of their sexual preference. Gay people are not inferior to straight ones.

 

Oh, and also:

 

I presume you have some evidence that same-sex parents are inferior then?

 

You didn't answer this ^

[Strontium]

And throw away your 18th century medical books.

 

I'm sorry what

 

You're the one who's trying to make out homosexuality is some kind of disorder here. That's the only 18th century thinking in this thread.

[RedinSweden]

I consider myself straight, but if Shakira came round my gaff jiggling her non-lying hips in my face I cannot, hand on heart, say I wouldn't. Okay, I would, and thrice on Sunday.

 

Does that make me an unfit mother though?

 

I am going to get some mileage out of that mental image.

[rb14]

Can we please just fucking STOP?

 

I find it astonishing that this thread has persisted. There was a thread on "petrolheads" recently, which had all scousers down as thieving, self-pitying, hillsborough-causing, doleheads. It was ultimately pulled - by one of the people who had been promulgating the myths. It was frankly a fucking disgrace. This thread isn't far from that. Emlyn has rightfully tried to eat humble pie, and I got the impression wishes it had never have been posted. Rightly so. But here we still are, ten pages on. I don't particularly want it to be pulled, but I want some decency to return to an otherwise generally light-hearted, funny and ironic forum.

 

Unfortunately, there no clear line which seperates gays from straights. In this country, people can choose to have sex with whoever they like as long as it is consensual and lawful. It is frankly preposterous to imagine some line, gays standing on one side, straights on the other. It is far more helpful to see it as a continuum; at one extreme being people totally homosexual, the other being people utterly heterosexual. I contend that either extreme is precisely that, unhelpful, contradictory and myopic. This continuum would place bisexual people in the middle. Some suggest that homo- and hetero-sexuality are biological, that people are born one way or the other. I strongly disagree with this argument. I say again, you can choose who you want to have (consensual, lawful) sex with. That you choose to sleep with only people of the opposite sex DOES NOT make you straight. But that life were so easy.

 

Some people fancy members of the same sex and choose not to do anything about it. Some do something about it. Some refuse to consider anything that might be different. Some are extraordinarily scared. There are people with dreadful inhibitions, hang-ups and experiences. I know plenty of people who mostly sleep with men, but occassionally sleep with women. I know plenty of people who do the exact opposite. I know people who would not dream of having gay sex, I know others who wouldn't dream of having straight sex.

 

To suggest there is something bad about homosexuality is absurd. To suggest that gay people are in some way less able to raise a child is equally wrong. A straight couple have just been convicted of killing their seventeen-month-old child through systematic abuse and nobody has raised a thread about it. Undoubtedly the 15 year-old who shot Rees through the back of the head was raised by straight people. I ask again, why was this thread raised about gays? To suggest that kids raised by gay parents or fosterers will be more open to abuse and bullying by other children, allows bullys to win the day. It is all our responsibility to prevent such things from happening. Anthony: "Mum. That Johnny in our class has got two dads. Can you believe that?" Mum: "So what? Who cares? Is he a bad boy because of it? No. Most of the kids in your class have only one mum, and no dad at all. Is that better or worse? Give the kid a break."

 

I am really saddened by the bigotry and hostility expressed throughout this thread. Can we please just fucking stop?

[Total Longo]

Won't somebody please think of the children?

[thechap]

So presuably white people are abnormal too, since they constitute a minority of all people in the world?

 

What a fucking stupid point. Like I said, don't ask silly questions.

 

 

I do? Well it might be less common than heterosexuality, but I contend that this doesn't make it abnormal. I think you're confusing the terms "common" and "normal". Homosexuality is entirely normal insofar as it has been part of humanity since time immemorial.

 

So have broken legs. They're not 'normal' either. So has paedophilia - by your reckoning that then must also be normal.

 

 

It's on an "equal footing" because there's no reason to discriminate agianst someone in law because of their sexual preference. Gay people are not inferior to straight ones.

 

I didn't say that they were inferior. I said that straight relationships were the better environment for adoption. If you're going to quote me then read my posts first. It's better that way.

 

 

Oh, and also:

 

 

 

You didn't answer this ^

 

 

If you think that 'Daddy and Daddy' is no different from 'Mummy and Daddy' and not blindlingly obviously less preferable then, well... Mate, you are walking proof that the country is fucked.

[Rafa Shankly]

Children will rip the piss out of anything that isn't "the norm", in any case - if your mother is a midget, or your father a fat, bald bloke you aren't in for a fun time at school; do you sterilise all midgets and take all children with fat, bald blokes into care? Of course not.

a million miles away from having gay parents.

 

one kid to another.

your dad is fat and bald.

 

one kid to another.

your parents are faggots.

 

they hardly pack the same punch do they?

its also a bit naive to suggest that they would be both equally hurtful.

[Strontium]

What a fucking stupid point. Like I said, don't ask silly questions.

 

I wouldn't ask "silly questions" if you didn't make such stupid fucking statements.

 

So have broken legs. They're not 'normal' either. So has paedophilia - by your reckoning that then must also be normal.

 

So you do think that homosexuality is an illness then. Fine.

 

I didn't say that they were inferior. I said that straight relationships were the better environment for adoption.

 

So gay people are inferior for adoption purposes but they're not inferior. Thanks for clearing that one up.

 

If you think that 'Daddy and Daddy' is no different from 'Mummy and Daddy' and not blindlingly obviously less preferable then, well... Mate, you are walking proof that the country is fucked.

 

Sorry, I don't base my opinions on "blindingly obvious" hunches. I want some evidence that children fostered or adopted by gay couples turn out worse than those fostered or adopted by straight couples.

[Mark P]

God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Case dismissed.

[Strontium]

God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Case dismissed.

 

Cain and Abel married their sisters. If the Biblical creation story is an advert for heterosexuality, then it's also rather positive about incest too ;)

 

Of course, I'm sure your initial comment was in jest...

[thechap]

I wouldn't ask "silly questions" if you didn't make such stupid fucking statements.

 

 

 

So you do think that homosexuality is an illness then. Fine.

 

 

 

So gay people are inferior for adoption purposes but they're not inferior. Thanks for clearing that one up.

 

 

 

Sorry, I don't base my opinions on "blindingly obvious" hunches. I want some evidence that children fostered or adopted by gay couples turn out worse than those fostered or adopted by straight couples.

 

 

Oh dear... Keep trying. Keep trying...

[hamstrung]

Cain and Abel married their sisters. If the Biblical creation story is an advert for heterosexuality, then it's also rather positive about incest too ;)

.

 

Its also pretty ambivalent about rape.

[Kopite]

Its also pretty ambivalent about rape.

 

Rape is such a nasty word. I prefer surprise sex.

[madstock]

a million miles away from having gay parents.

 

one kid to another.

your dad is fat and bald.

 

one kid to another.

your parents are faggots.

 

they hardly pack the same punch do they?

its also a bit naive to suggest that they would be both equally hurtful.

 

I would say that your whole response is not only "a bit naive", but also displays your own prejudice, whether you wanted it to or not.

 

The very fact that some people in a supposed modern society view "your parents are gay" as being an insult to someone who has gay parents shows exactly what is wrong.

 

Thankfully society evolves, and generally becomes more enlightened; single mothers generally don't have the same stigma as 20 years ago, unmarried mothers aren't normally hidden away from society, epileptics aren't locked up as insane - in a similar vein future generations will surely be less conditioned in their views regarding homosexuality.

 

Ignorance is wrong, love isn't.

[thechap]

The very fact that some people in a supposed modern society view "your parents are gay" as being an insult to someone who has gay parents shows exactly what is wrong.

 

Thankfully society evolves, and generally becomes more enlightened; single mothers generally don't have the same stigma as 20 years ago, unmarried mothers aren't normally hidden away from society, epileptics aren't locked up as insane - in a similar vein future generations will surely be less conditioned in their views regarding homosexuality.

 

You're right of course, but Rafa Shankly is simply stating the reality of life. Children, teenagers and plenty of adults will always exploit another's weaknesses - perceived or otherwise. It's one of those unfortunate aspects of human nature that any future 'enlightment' is unlikely to change simply because it's in our nature.

[Rafa Shankly]

I would say that your whole response is not only "a bit naive", but also displays your own prejudice, whether you wanted it to or not.

 

The very fact that some people in a supposed modern society view "your parents are gay" as being an insult to someone who has gay parents shows exactly what is wrong.

 

Thankfully society evolves, and generally becomes more enlightened; single mothers generally don't have the same stigma as 20 years ago, unmarried mothers aren't normally hidden away from society, epileptics aren't locked up as insane - in a similar vein future generations will surely be less conditioned in their views regarding homosexuality.

 

Ignorance is wrong, love isn't.

unfortunately these are your views of society,but thats really not reality.

my original post was about being a kid with gay parents,not an adult or even a teenager.

 

in the world i live in some kids are not as loving as you seem to want them to be.

 

and its got nothing to do with ignorance,its about being a kid,and the way kids have always being and will always be to each other.

thats nasty little so and so`s.

 

kids will use anything as a bat to beat other kids with,and no matter what you think,the words,faggot,queer,bender,homo,paedo and so on must be extremely hard to deal with.

much harder than your dad being called fat and bald.

 

id love that not to be the case,but it is,deal with it.

[madstock]

id love that not to be the case,but it is,deal with it.

 

How about "I'd love that not to be the case - change it"?

 

I accept that some children (and adults) will find a stick with which to beat anyone - however going back to my previous point, 40 years ago a child with an unmarried mother would have been relentlessly bullied - society evolves and this is generally no longer the case.

 

Nature does not make children bigotted, blinkered and ignorant - society and parental conditioning does.