PODCAST: Liverpool 0 Atalanta 3 - Match Reaction

[Chris]

8 hours ago, No2 said:

That pod needed a Paul or Stu to inject some reality back into it, had to switch it off half way through it was so gloomy. Proper throw the toys out of the pram stuff. That performance had nothing to do with Klopp leaving, what it was a team that was completely flummoxed by a style of play, we simply never got to grips with it. Instead of being composed and figuring it out, we panicked. As shite as we where we could have easily scored 4 goals, Darwin has to score, Mo has to keep himself onside and then we have Harvey's effort and Mo, Darwin and Diogo's other chances. We can score 4 or 5 out there easily.

For better or worse we record within an hour after the game so you get how we’re feeling in that moment. I make no apologies for that. Maybe it was the wrong crew for this pod. I suspect a few may have turned off. 

 

@Paul, by the way, is absolutely despondent too. 
 

Not sure about your version of reality either. Either we were flummoxed and we didn’t get to grips with it or we created loads of good chances that would have won us the game comfortably. Your version is both. I don’t think it was either. I think we were fucking shit. 
 

If we were flummoxed by the 6th placed team in Serie A who’ve barely had a good result in weeks then I wouldn’t say that bodes well, would you? 
 

Suddenly their version of Hodgson is now flavour of the month with people saying we should interview him, because of it too. Fuck all that. 

[Spy Bee]

I thought the pod was bang on. This performance has been in the post. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

During and immediately after games fans are going to be emotional and knee jerk or at least their honest reactions elevated. It's why I'm always bemused when people rant about the match thread it's supposed to be nuts how you carry on when it's all calmed down fair enough.

[No2]

2 hours ago, Chris said:

For better or worse we record within an hour after the game so you get how we’re feeling in that moment. I make no apologies for that. Maybe it was the wrong crew for this pod. I suspect a few may have turned off. 

 

@Paul, by the way, is absolutely despondent too. 
 

Not sure about your version of reality either. Either we were flummoxed and we didn’t get to grips with it or we created loads of good chances that would have won us the game comfortably. Your version is both. I don’t think it was either. I think we were fucking shit. 
 

If we were flummoxed by the 6th placed team in Serie A who’ve barely had a good result in weeks then I wouldn’t say that bodes well, would you? 
 

Suddenly their version of Hodgson is now flavour of the month with people saying we should interview him, because of it too. Fuck all that. 

I've no issue with the summary of the game, we were absolutely awful. My  problem was lumping it in with Klopp's departure but mostly with questioning the character of the players and the outlook for the rest of the reason. Those lads deserved better than that, it was equivalent of getting the yellow and green scarves out.

[KMD7]

1 hour ago, Spy Bee said:

I thought the pod was bang on. This performance has been in the post. 

This 

[Code]

4 hours ago, Chris said:

 

If we were flummoxed by the 6th placed team in Serie A who’ve barely had a good result in weeks then I wouldn’t say that bodes well, would you? 
 

Suddenly their version of Hodgson is now flavour of the month with people saying we should interview him, because of it too. Fuck all that. 

The Italian version of Hodgson is nowhere close to the reality though.

 

Atalanta before they appointed Gasperini.

 

2006/07: 8th

2007/08: 9th

2008/09: 11th

2009/10: 18th - relegated

2010/11: Winner Serie B

2011/12: 12th

2012/13: 15th

2013/14: 11th

2014/15: 17th

2015/16: 13th

 

Atalanta after Gasperini got appointed.

 

2016/17: 4th

2017/18: 7th

2018/19: 3rd

2019/20: 3rd

2020/21: 3rd

2021/22: 8th

2022/23: 5th

2023/24: currently 6th

 

For the last five seasons this is how Atalantas transfer business has looked like, they have made €152 millions from transfers the last five seasons. 

 

19/20: Sold - €107 m, bought - €60 m, balance + €47 m.

20/21: Sold - €75 m, bought - €62 m, balance + €13 m.

21/22: Sold - € 52 m, bought - €65 m, balance - €13 m.

22/23: Sold - €134 m, bought - €103 m, balance + €31 m.

23/24: Sold - €152 m, bought - €78 m, balance + €74 m.

 

Gasperini has Atalanta punching well above their weight, could obviously be interesting to see what he could do with better players. 

[dave u]

11 hours ago, No2 said:

That pod needed a Paul or Stu to inject some reality back into it, had to switch it off half way through it was so gloomy. Proper throw the toys out of the pram stuff. That performance had nothing to do with Klopp leaving, what it was a team that was completely flummoxed by a style of play, we simply never got to grips with it. Instead of being composed and figuring it out, we panicked. As shite as we where we could have easily scored 4 goals, Darwin has to score, Mo has to keep himself onside and then we have Harvey's effort and Mo, Darwin and Diogo's other chances. We can score 4 or 5 out there easily.

 

you wouldn't be getting that from Paul, he's in the same place we are, he might actually be in an even darker place given what he was tweeting. 

[dave u]

2 hours ago, No2 said:

I've no issue with the summary of the game, we were absolutely awful. My  problem was lumping it in with Klopp's departure but mostly with questioning the character of the players and the outlook for the rest of the reason. Those lads deserved better than that, it was equivalent of getting the yellow and green scarves out.

 

Nah, "those lads" are on the brink of completely and needlessly shitting all over Klopp's happy ending. If that happens - and as I pointed out, there's still time for them to ensure it doesn't - they don't "deserve" anything.

 

They came through so much adversity to get us where we were (chasing a quadruple) and they were roundly praised for it, but then they started throwing up all over themselves when it should have started to get easier for them.

 

That was one of the worst European results in our history, all things considered. You can't just gloss over that because they've done well up until March. Coming off the back of going out of the FA Cup to that shambles of a United team and then relinquishing top spot by once again failing to beat that shambles of a United team, they need to take a long hard look at themselves and figure this shit out before it's too late.

 

You know what's been annoying me all season, and I've said it on the pod and written in reports, the fact they can't figure out anything for themselves and reply on Klopp to fix it at half time. You said yourself they were "flummoxed" by Atalanta and panicked. You know that isn't because they were badly prepared or did not know what to expect, and it's not like we had kids playing in that game, so it reflects badly on them.

 

They don't solve problems on the pitch themselves, we're always waiting for half time because we know Klopp and the video team will show them what to do. Would be nice if they were able to fix things for themselves for once and not always need that. That might be the one thing we miss about Henderson.

[Dave D]

The players do seem to lack game intelligence- some are naturals but others only gain it through adverse experience.

 

The Henderson point is an interesting one . His influence wained in his last season but he wouldnt hide and would actively try and rally the team if it was flailing. I know its not the norm but when I see United score their 2nd last weekend I half expect to see Van Dijk make his way up the pitch whilst United celebrate and go to the forwards one by one, letting them know we need better, get their chins up, get them focused- just showing physical leadership in a storm 

[dave u]

I'm not knocking Virgil at all, but it's clear that we don't have anyone on the pitch who can sort things out when we're struggling tactically. So many times we're poor in the first half but figure it out after Klopp shows them at half time what they're doing right/wrong where the space is and what passes we should be playing. 

 

It would be nice if they could sort it themselves but they can't. Hopefully Amorim or whoever it is can babysit them at half time too, better yet get them doing the right things from the start and show them how to indentify what the problems are when its not working.

[3 Stacks]

1 hour ago, dave u said:

 

Nah, "those lads" are on the brink of completely and needlessly shitting all over Klopp's happy ending. If that happens - and as I pointed out, there's still time for them to ensure it doesn't - they don't "deserve" anything.

 

They came through so much adversity to get us where we were (chasing a quadruple) and they were roundly praised for it, but then they started throwing up all over themselves when it should have started to get easier for them.

 

That was one of the worst European results in our history, all things considered. You can't just gloss over that because they've done well up until March. Coming off the back of going out of the FA Cup to that shambles of a United team and then relinquishing top spot by once again failing to beat that shambles of a United team, they need to take a long hard look at themselves and figure this shit out before it's too late.

 

You know what's been annoying me all season, and I've said it on the pod and written in reports, the fact they can't figure out anything for themselves and reply on Klopp to fix it at half time. You said yourself they were "flummoxed" by Atalanta and panicked. You know that isn't because they were badly prepared or did not know what to expect, and it's not like we had kids playing in that game, so it reflects badly on them.

 

They don't solve problems on the pitch themselves, we're always waiting for half time because we know Klopp and the video team will show them what to do. Would be nice if they were able to fix things for themselves for once and not always need that. That might be the one thing we miss about Henderson.

"Shitting on the happy ending" is a bit much. The likely outcome is that down the line, people will look at this season as an overperformance. How many results this season have we pulled out of our ass?

[dave u]

2 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

"Shitting on the happy ending" is a bit much. The likely outcome is that down the line, people will look at this season as an overperformance. How many results this season have we pulled out of our ass?

 

If we end this season with only the league cup I guarantee people will not look back on it as over-performance.

 

You think not at least reaching the final of the Europa is not under-performing? Or that failing to beat United three times is not underperforming? We had over-performed until recently, particularly given the injuries and officiating we've had to overcome, but the fact is we were going into an 8 game sprint with a 3 point lead over City and a 2 point lead over Arsenal, with most of our most difficult fixtures out of the way, and we inexcusably fell at the first hurdle.. 

 

So now we're in a 7 game sprint with no lead over Arsenal and only a point over City. Win all seven and we'll still almost certainly be Champions in my opinion, so anything that has gone before - good or bad - doesn't matter. It's what we do now that will determine how this season is looked back on.

[3 Stacks]

15 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

If we end this season with only the league cup I guarantee people will not look back on it as over-performance.

 

You think not at least reaching the final of the Europa is not under-performing? Or that failing to beat United three times is not underperforming? We had over-performed until recently, particularly given the injuries and officiating we've had to overcome, but the fact is we were going into an 8 game sprint with a 3 point lead over City and a 2 point lead over Arsenal, with most of our most difficult fixtures out of the way, and we inexcusably fell at the first hurdle.. 

 

So now we're in a 7 game sprint with no lead over Arsenal and only a point over City. Win all seven and we'll still almost certainly be Champions in my opinion, so anything that has gone before - good or bad - doesn't matter. It's what we do now that will determine how this season is looked back on.

If you look at not being in the Europa League final in a vacuum as underperforming, I agree. 

 

But taking the competition lightly because you actually overperformed in the league and now have to manage yourself is basically what happened to Arsenal last season. 

 

That's what being in the Europa League does; it's intrinsically not very motivating if you're a top club, and to be honest, when you're in the Europa League, it's because not very long ago, you weren't that good to begin with. 

 

So yeah, I think when we're likely not competing for the title very often years down the line, we'll look at the squad of players and think Klopp got loads out of them and they almost pulled off something surprising (if we don't win the league, as now expected).

[No2]

4 hours ago, dave u said:

 

Nah, "those lads" are on the brink of completely and needlessly shitting all over Klopp's happy ending. If that happens - and as I pointed out, there's still time for them to ensure it doesn't - they don't "deserve" anything.

 

They came through so much adversity to get us where we were (chasing a quadruple) and they were roundly praised for it, but then they started throwing up all over themselves when it should have started to get easier for them.

 

That was one of the worst European results in our history, all things considered. You can't just gloss over that because they've done well up until March. Coming off the back of going out of the FA Cup to that shambles of a United team and then relinquishing top spot by once again failing to beat that shambles of a United team, they need to take a long hard look at themselves and figure this shit out before it's too late.

 

You know what's been annoying me all season, and I've said it on the pod and written in reports, the fact they can't figure out anything for themselves and reply on Klopp to fix it at half time. You said yourself they were "flummoxed" by Atalanta and panicked. You know that isn't because they were badly prepared or did not know what to expect, and it's not like we had kids playing in that game, so it reflects badly on them.

 

They don't solve problems on the pitch themselves, we're always waiting for half time because we know Klopp and the video team will show them what to do. Would be nice if they were able to fix things for themselves for once and not always need that. That might be the one thing we miss about Henderson.

I'm not glossing over the performance, just not linking it to anything other than a shit night. Sloppy performances with wasteful finishing isn't something that we haven't seen tonnes of times in the past either.The half time fixing thing isn't new, even at our best we had problems sorting things in game. It's the only issue I've ever had with Klopp, the system and squad he's build seem to be totally reliant on the system, if the counter press is failing its 99% likely we will be shit. 

[dave u]

3 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

If you look at not being in the Europa League final in a vacuum as underperforming, I agree. 

 

But taking the competition lightly because you actually overperformed in the league and now have to manage yourself is basically what happened to Arsenal last season. 

 

That's what being in the Europa League does; it's intrinsically not very motivating if you're a top club, and to be honest, when you're in the Europa League, it's because not very long ago, you weren't that good to begin with. 

 

So yeah, I think when we're likely not competing for the title very often years down the line, we'll look at the squad of players and think Klopp got loads out of them and they almost pulled off something surprising (if we don't win the league, as now expected).

 

See here's the thing, I don't think we took it lightly. I had zero problem with Klopp rotating because it's necessary and it's been successful all season. I also don't think the players were thinking "can't be arsed with this, its only the Europa". I just think for reasons unknown we produced an absolute stinker of a performance where - and this is the bit I struggle to understand most - literally every player was somewhere between under par and absolutely fucking horrendous.

 

As for us being in the Europa because we were not very good, that was for one season and there were valid reasons for it. It's not like Arsenal who were in the wilderness for years. We were in the CL Final two years ago. We're a CL team who happen to be playing in the Europa because we had a bad season and finished one place outside the top four, so the only way not winning it is acceptable is if we lose to Leverkusen (one of the best teams in Europe right now) or if freak circumstances got us (sending off, bad pen decisions etc).

 

If we don't win this title and then go into the tank in the coming years I think many of us will look back on this season with even more resentment, not nostalgia. If you want to hail the plucky underdogs who gave us a fun ride, sound. If we win all seven and lose out on goal difference to Arsenal, there'll be a lot of merit to that and I might even be there with you. 

 

If we don't win all seven then I'll look back and remember a team that had a head start with 8 games to go and fucked up Klopp's last chance to win a title and celebrate it with fans.

[3 Stacks]

21 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

See here's the thing, I don't think we took it lightly. I had zero problem with Klopp rotating because it's necessary and it's been successful all season. I also don't think the players were thinking "can't be arsed with this, its only the Europa". I just think for reasons unknown we produced an absolute stinker of a performance where - and this is the bit I struggle to understand most - literally every player was somewhere between under par and absolutely fucking horrendous.

 

As for us being in the Europa because we were not very good, that was for one season and there were valid reasons for it. It's not like Arsenal who were in the wilderness for years. We were in the CL Final two years ago. We're a CL team who happen to be playing in the Europa because we had a bad season and finished one place outside the top four, so the only way not winning it is acceptable is if we lose to Leverkusen (one of the best teams in Europe right now) or if freak circumstances got us (sending off, bad pen decisions etc).

 

If we don't win this title and then go into the tank in the coming years I think many of us will look back on this season with even more resentment, not nostalgia. If you want to hail the plucky underdogs who gave us a fun ride, sound. If we win all seven and lose out on goal difference to Arsenal, there'll be a lot of merit to that and I might even be there with you. 

 

If we don't win all seven then I'll look back and remember a team that had a head start with 8 games to go and fucked up Klopp's last chance to win a title and celebrate it with fans.

I don't think there's any doubt we took the game at least a bit lightly. Because it's not the Champions League, because you have two legs, because it's not the priority. And if you play a team like Atalanta lightly, they can run you off the pitch. 

 

We're not plucky, but we're different to Arsenal and City. There is much more uncertainty in the way we play. If you watch all 3 teams, we're not the one that "looks" the best, the surest, the safest. That's the nice way to put it. But most of this season we've known how to win and then also the odd game we'd crush someone, like Newcastle at Anfield. 

 

I would 99% not expect us to win the last 7 games, but if that's what you expect, then of course you'll be disappointed.

 

 

[SasaS]

I think we sometimes get carried away and forget that going from last season to this season's talk of quadruple chase and being top of the league in April is a massive achievement in itself.

 

And the podcast was a real downer, I made a mistake of not listening to it sooner, two days after the game it sounded like a burst of negative energy. Lets just say It didn't help my lawn mowing performance. 

[Pidge]

I get Chris's view, really. If it weren't for Klopp leaving we'd probably be looking at this season as being a positive one in terms of a rebuild. Lots of young talent coming through, done well across multiple comps etc. It's only the announcement that turned the expectations to "you have to win things now". 

 

Don't get Chris' Trent comment though, we have been consistently conceding the kind of goals that were routinely blamed on him and he's not even been on the field. Bit harsh to throw shade at him now.

[Chris]

On 12/04/2024 at 17:26, No2 said:

That pod needed a Paul or Stu to inject some reality back into it, had to switch it off half way through it was so gloomy. Proper throw the toys out of the pram stuff. That performance had nothing to do with Klopp leaving, what it was a team that was completely flummoxed by a style of play, we simply never got to grips with it. Instead of being composed and figuring it out, we panicked. As shite as we where we could have easily scored 4 goals, Darwin has to score, Mo has to keep himself onside and then we have Harvey's effort and Mo, Darwin and Diogo's other chances. We can score 4 or 5 out there easily.

presume you’ll be walking this back now?

 

if you watched that and think the malaise is unrelated to Klopp’s departure then you’re kidding yourself. 

[Chris]

1 hour ago, Pidge said:

I get Chris's view, really. If it weren't for Klopp leaving we'd probably be looking at this season as being a positive one in terms of a rebuild. Lots of young talent coming through, done well across multiple comps etc. It's only the announcement that turned the expectations to "you have to win things now". 

 

Don't get Chris' Trent comment though, we have been consistently conceding the kind of goals that were routinely blamed on him and he's not even been on the field. Bit harsh to throw shade at him now.

It was harsh to throw shade at him. Silly even. I was I pissed off and lashing out. 

[No2]

4 minutes ago, Chris said:

presume you’ll be walking this back now?

 

if you watched that and think the malaise is unrelated to Klopp’s departure then you’re kidding yourself. 

You look like a cunt bumping look at me posts 2 minutes after that. Like the kind of cunts that haven't been seen in 4 months will reappear complaining we didn't buy Mbappe in January. 

 

 

[Chris]

7 minutes ago, No2 said:

You look like a cunt bumping look at me posts 2 minutes after that. Like the kind of cunts that haven't been seen in 4 months will reappear complaining we didn't buy Mbappe in January. 

 

 

if you weren’t so smug the other night telling people how they should feel it wouldn’t have been on my mind, so it takes one to know one I suppose. 

[No2]

1 minute ago, Chris said:

if you weren’t so smug the other night telling people how they should feel it wouldn’t have been on my mind, so it takes one to know one I suppose. 

I wasn't smug, I was pissed off that you questioning the character of the players and staff. Ability is up for debate but not attitude or effort.

[Chris]

1 minute ago, No2 said:

I wasn't smug, I was pissed off that you questioning the character of the players and staff. Ability is up for debate but not attitude or effort.

 

And again, I'm questioning the character of the players and the staff after today. 

[Chris]

 

Klopp is detaching emotionally and it's having a grave effect on what we're seeing on the field.

 

I don't necessarily think it's a conscious thing.

 

We can all do it, you detach emotionally to protect and prepare yourself to cope. 

 

I think that's what's happening here.

 

We rely completely on being all-in... 100% focused, 100% engines running.

 

It's not there.