Keir Starmer

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Just now, Numero Veinticinco said:

You said that you don’t think the focus on Israel is because of antisemitism? I missed that, apologies if you said that. It very much feels like that’s what you’re alluding to.

 

 

 
Of course he is.

[Jose Jones]

3 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

You said that you don’t think the focus on Israel is because of antisemitism? I missed that, apologies if you said that. It very much feels like that’s what you’re alluding to.

 

 

Ah, Alluding Red.

Always knew that A had to stand for something.

[A Red]

Just now, Jose Jones said:

Ah, Alluding Red.

Always knew that A had to stand for something.

Arse

[Jairzinho]

1 hour ago, A Red said:

As some would say...hmmm I wonder why?

 

 

Pretending you weren't referring to antisemitism here is an odd move. 

 

Although intimidating that it is about antisemitism while quoting my post, a post that gave you a different reason, was also an odd move. 

 

Just trolling I guess. 

[Bjornebye]

Tory as fuck.

 

"Why did you do that?"

 

"I did it for this reason"

 

Hmmm doesn't suit my agenda. Ignore it.  "Why did you do that?" 

 

It's like that Angela Levin getting asked why she spread lies about Harry & Meghan and her saying "I'm not here to be questioned by you" then just carrying on to spread her bullshit. 

 

As NV said, people have given fair reasons why. 

 

Incoming...

 

 

 

[A Red]

2 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Pretending you weren't referring to antisemitism here is an odd move. 

 

Although intimidating that it is about antisemitism while quoting my post, a post that gave you a different reason, was also an odd move. 

 

Just trolling I guess. 

No I wasn't.  I didn't intimate antisemitism at all but something a bit different. I was interested to see if anyone came up with the bit about Israel being a western style country. You did.

 

There is also a feeling, rightly or wrongly, that such a sophisticated, technologically advanced country, should have many of the same values as other sophisticated, technologically advanced countries.

 

I think some on the left hold Israel to higher standards to other shite regimes. Perhaps these people are being unwittingly racist because Israel is predominately backed by white jewish people and many jews in Israel could be seen as white (many arent). Therefore white on brown rather than brown on brown could be seen, by some, more worthy of protest. The jews should know better. Look at the lefts concentration on apartheid in South Africa compared to other vile African regimes.

 

I'm not calling you or anyone else a racist btw

[Arniepie]

23 minutes ago, A Red said:

I actually said I don't believe its anti Semitism and don't understand how you could come to that conclusion. I don't think I've ever accused Corbyn, for example, of being one. 

 

I'm asking the question that many people such as me who are not left wing and floating voters want to understand. There doesn't seem to be 1 over-riding answer for the obsession there is with some about Israel.

Thats because there isn't 1

Several posters have given a multitude of reasons why the left 'obsess' over a country who murders people in cold blood whilst the west says nothing.

[Bjornebye]

Interesting when certain people focus on why people focus on Israel instead of asking what they are doing to Palestinians. 

 

If you want to see proper racism, watch Louis Theroux in Gaza. Listen to "gods chosen people" talk about Palestinians.....

 

(I accept that similar hatred will be said about the Israelis if he spoke to the Palestinian side) 

[Strontium]

27 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

If you want to see proper racism, watch Louis Theroux in Gaza

 

The West Bank. There are no Jews in Gaza.

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, Strontium said:

 

The West Bank. There are no Jews in Gaza.

 

I stand corrected. I meant the West Bank. I'm glad you knew who I meant by the racists. 

 

 

 

 

[Strontium]

Just now, Bjornebye said:

I stand corrected. I meant the West Bank. I'm glad you knew who I meant by the racists. 

 

I agree that the ultra-religious ultra-nationalists in that documentary are racists, and an impediment to peace.

[Bjornebye]

Just now, Strontium said:

 

I agree that the ultra-religious ultra-nationalists in that documentary are racists, and an impediment to peace.

 

I'm glad you agree. It's racism at its most vile and potent. As the murder, bulldozing and general apartheid behaviour by the Israelis government and IDF attests to. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Chomsky makes a strong point about criticism of conflicts your own country is either involved in or in some way supports or fuels. That’s true of the occupied territories. Britain played a prominent role in this as does the US, and that alone is enough reason for special interest to be taken inside these countries, that’s without even having to talk about the geopolitical importance of the conflict. 
 

I don’t hold Israel to a higher standard because they’re more technologically advanced, they’re more advanced because they keep the ‘other side’ in a box. I hold them to international law and norms. I do that for all countries. 
 

And look, Israel exists now. There’s no ‘denying’ their right to continue to do so. Nor should there be, they deserve security and prosperity as much as anyone else. What they can’t do without condemnation is to act the way they’ve acted and conduct themselves on the international stage the way they have without condemnation. 
 

I do find it strange that quite often, mostly from the centre to the right, you speak out about Saudi and their oppressions, you get grumbles of agreement ‘oh yes, terrible stuff’, you call out Russia and we agree that it’s terrible, you talk about the plight of the Palestinians and the actions of Israel and the first instinct is to deflect, to ask questions about other conflicts. We can ask ourselves questions on the left about why we care so much, but the right could genuinely ask themselves why they’re less bothered by it than they are about other conflicts. 

[Jairzinho]

We're also, obviously, influenced by what we know about.

 

Because of the multitude of reasons stated in the last few pages, people know about Israel/Palestine. There are, and have been, many racial, tribal, religious, etc conflicts in West Africa, for example. Their significance, or their link, to the UK is comparatively minimal. Hence people on the left focusing more on Palestine, than the civil war in Guinea-Bissau from 20 years ago.

 

 

Saudi Arabia, and particularly their atrocities against Yemen, is an interesting comparison. People on the right/centre often bizarrely assume the left isn't interested. Or, for some reason, that we think the regime isn't "as bad" as Israel's. Obviously this is nonsense, by many measures it is considerably worse. However, crucially, far fewer people are arguing that they're actually goodies. Or that there is some BBC framing style 50/50 battle going on. 

 

When Mark Regev goes on TV, he is considered far more legitimate than when a Saudi prince says they're modernising the country and actually everything is sound in Saudi Arabia. Migrants aren't treated like slaves, journalists aren't being topped, and women aren't generally afforded the same respect as mosquitoes. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

16 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

We're also, obviously, influenced by what we know about.

 

Because of the multitude of reasons stated in the last few pages, people know about Israel/Palestine. There are, and have been, many racial, tribal, religious, etc conflicts in West Africa, for example. Their significance, or their link, to the UK is comparatively minimal. Hence people on the left focusing more on Palestine, than the civil war in Guinea-Bissau from 20 years ago.

Speak for yourself. I have long been concerned with why people care so much about the *checks notes* Bissau-Guineans. Hmn… I wonder. My guess is that it has something to do with the Kaabu Empire love-in the lefties have. Personally, I’ve been supporting whichever group is least offensive for this joke since the Mandinka people first set foot in Guinea-Bissau in 1200 according to Wikipedia. Go ‘ead, Farim Kaabu lad. Or, indeed, booo boooo Farim, if that’s a more acceptable opinion. 

 

[Arniepie]

26 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

We're also, obviously, influenced by what we know about.

 

Because of the multitude of reasons stated in the last few pages, people know about Israel/Palestine. There are, and have been, many racial, tribal, religious, etc conflicts in West Africa, for example. Their significance, or their link, to the UK is comparatively minimal. Hence people on the left focusing more on Palestine, than the civil war in Guinea-Bissau from 20 years ago.

 

 

Saudi Arabia, and particularly their atrocities against Yemen, is an interesting comparison. People on the right/centre often bizarrely assume the left isn't interested. Or, for some reason, that we think the regime isn't "as bad" as Israel's. Obviously this is nonsense, by many measures it is considerably worse. However, crucially, far fewer people are arguing that they're actually goodies. Or that there is some BBC framing style 50/50 battle going on. 

 

When Mark Regev goes on TV, he is considered far more legitimate than when a Saudi prince says they're modernising the country and actually everything is sound in Saudi Arabia. Migrants aren't treated like slaves, journalists aren't being topped, and women aren't generally afforded the same respect as mosquitoes. 

I think money plays a huge role in our attitude towards Saudi

We turn a blind eye to what they get upto because they are rich ags we do business with them 

It's that simple.

[Bjornebye]

Other than the Nazis, the British and Americans (especially the British) have been some of the most evil genocidal cunts in the world. it all comes down to two things, power and money. With those nations anyway. The religious freedom fighters don't really care that much for money they're forcing a belief. It's a cunt yard on both sides. The more people that call it all out the better. The problem is, people calling out and getting accusations of racism etc. 

 

 

 

[Jose Jones]

7 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

I think money plays a huge role in our attitude towards Saudi

We turn a blind eye to what they get upto because they are rich ags we do business with them 

It's that simple.

The military industrial complex has both political sides sewn up.  Donations to the right, jobs to the left.

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

The military industrial complex has both political sides sewn up.  Donations to the right, jobs to the left.

Any news who’s stuck in the middle?

[Jairzinho]

Get it watched -

 

 

[Jose Jones]

13 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Any news who’s stuck in the middle?

Cats. Duplicitous bastards.

[Bjornebye]

48 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Any news who’s stuck in the middle?

 

Here I am. 

[Bjornebye]

Food for thought

 

 

 

[A Red]

There are human beings dying in Africa, they are just as valuable human beings as Palestinians, but yeah I get the jokes.

 

Burma - ongoing for about as long as Palestine, plenty of British involvement

China - ongoing since about 1949, admittedly not much British involvement

Kurds - Bit like the Jews, displaced over a range of countries

Kashmir - Plenty of British history there

 

We can ignore them, relatively speaking, compared to Palestine. Wrong colour you see.

[Gnasher]

Jobs for family and friends. Gotta help out your mates.

 

 

Did someone mention Ruth Smeeth?