Keir Starmer

[Numero Veinticinco]

Your own links show Labour remaining level for months afterwards. I can only really repeat the facts I just posted in my last post. There’s definitely bad feeing from the left, I just don’t see what RLB or JM are going to do about it. Who would fall back to Labour because RLB was in the shadow government? Maybe RLBs mum? 
 

The rot is deep in Labour. It has been for a long time. Left, right, whatever, they aren’t a team and it’ll be the end of them. Scotland’s going to fuck off anyway, and it’ll be Tory all the way down. It’s all a load of bollocks. I might just sign up to the Tory party and act entirely in my own self interest. I need to brush up on my Pakistan jokes and learn a few more disparaging remarks about poor people, but I think it’s going to work out. I welcome our selfish cunt overlords. 
 

I’m genuinely not sure who has done worse, Liverpool this season or Labour since 2010. 

[Neil G]

1 hour ago, Numero said:

Yep absolute dirt. Thing is, they keep on and on and on falling with nothing at all to offset it. Don't get me wrong, I've long been an advocate of keeping their head down and (importantly) getting a policy plan in place for the future, but there's understanding and accepting that the country has just come out of a landslide election, then there's allowing all the progress that was made after he took over to just vanish without any sort of response. It's going to take quite some bouncing back, that's for sure. I understand the vaccination thing has gone well, and lots of people have been paid and supported by government, so there's still good faith, but fuck me... there's a limit to how far you can let it slip without asking what the fuck is going on, you know?

It’s the keeping the head down that’s the reason for the abysmal polling. Voters have no idea what Labour under Starmer stands for, what they would do in government. It comes through again and again in polls, vox pops and focus groups. Until Starmer sets out a clear vision and programme for government the polls aren’t going to shift unless the government completely fucks things up, whether on Covid, the economy or something else. Given the unstinting support they’ve had from the media it would have to be something utterly cataclysmic - we’re talking Winter of Discontent plus Black Wednesday plus GFC all rolled into one, that kind of level.

 

The polls will improve once Starmer sets out a policy programme, but the longer he leaves it the less time he’ll have to persuade doubters that the programme is valid and achievable, which is always going to be a big challenge for Labour. There really is no excuse to delay it beyond this autumn.

[Bruce Spanner]

12 minutes ago, Neil G said:

It’s the keeping the head down that’s the reason for the abysmal polling. Voters have no idea what Labour under Starmer stands for, what they would do in government. It comes through again and again in polls, vox pops and focus groups. Until Starmer sets out a clear vision and programme for government the polls aren’t going to shift unless the government completely fucks things up, whether on Covid, the economy or something else. Given the unstinting support they’ve had from the media it would have to be something utterly cataclysmic - we’re talking Winter of Discontent plus Black Wednesday plus GFC all rolled into one, that kind of level.

 

The polls will improve once Starmer sets out a policy programme, but the longer he leaves it the less time he’ll have to persuade doubters that the programme is valid and achievable, which is always going to be a big challenge for Labour. There really is no excuse to delay it beyond this autumn.

 

He did set out a policy programe, of sorts, with the dud conference he did to camera when he talked about bonds and the country dozed off..

 

Last week they announced a really progressive, forward thinking policy around grants for start ups, something like Slovakia have where they guarantee a grant of up to £20/30k for young enterprise start ups, great idea. Literally nobody mentioned it on the rounds, amazingly amateur.

 

The messaging and connection are fucked, he and the team he's put together are one step off the pace at all times and this needs to be looked at seriously.

[Rushies tash]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

He did set out a policy programe, of sorts, with the dud conference he did to camera when he talked about bonds and the country dozed off..

 

Last week they announced a really progressive, forward thinking policy around loans for start ups, something like Slovakia have where they guarantee a grant of up to £20/30k for young enterprise start ups, great idea. Literally nobody mentioned it on the rounds, amazingly amateur.

 

The messaging and connection are fucked, he and the team he's put together are one step off the pace at all times and this needs to be looked at seriously.

Isn't that what was promised though? All on message and a real opposition?

[Bruce Spanner]

24 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

Isn't that what was promised though? All on message and a real opposition?

 

I don't get what you mean, sorry?

 

You mean the unity promise, if so that's fucked.

 

Oh, with you now.

 

I think they're being reactionary as there's so much to react to, vut they're not ruthless enough to stick the boot in. Newsnight last night thay had Debbonaire on and all she needed to say to the Tory pillock on was 'The same Cummings the Prime minster stuck his neck out for causing loss of trust and more deaths' would have shut the 'debate' down right there.

 

Another on the ESL idea, it's come out that Woodwood met the chief advisor who, apparently, gave blessing for the idea. he then briefly met johnson. Hammer that shit even if there are ambiguities. Though the conversation with the voter would probably run like this...

 

'Starmer is a keen footballer, plays twice a week with friends and has a season ticket for Arsenal, really opposed to the idea and would look at some sort of fan representation on the board if possible'

 

'Yeah, fan representation, isn't that a bit commie? I'd never vote for an Arsenal fan anyway' 

 

'So, you'd choose Boris a man who lied on the manifesto about having a review of football to gain votes, a man who apparently greenlit the whole thing to then do a huge about turn, a man who thinks football is the plebs game, a man who would happily sell your team to China for a kickback, a man so devoid of any interest in football he doesn't even pretend support 'West Ham Villa' like David Cameron to appeal to the common man, that Boris?'

 

'He's alright Boris, he just gets us'

 

*Shoots self in head*

[Gnasher]

26 minutes ago, Numero said:

Your own links show Labour remaining level for months afterwards. I can only really repeat the facts I just posted in my last post. There’s definitely bad feeing from the left, I just don’t see what RLB or JM are going to do about it. Who would fall back to Labour because RLB was in the shadow government? Maybe RLBs mum? 
 

The rot is deep in Labour. It has been for a long time. Left, right, whatever, they aren’t a team and it’ll be the end of them. Scotland’s going to fuck off anyway, and it’ll be Tory all the way down. It’s all a load of bollocks. I might just sign up to the Tory party and act entirely in my own self interest. I need to brush up on my Pakistan jokes and learn a few more disparaging remarks about poor people, but I think it’s going to work out. I welcome our selfish cunt overlords. 
 

I’m genuinely not sure who has done worse, Liverpool this season or Labour since 2010. 

Well Corbs was only suspended five  months' ago, the fall, although not overnight has been steady ever since. If Starmer gambled on the Corbs suspension plus the Long Bailey sacking of last winter heralding a new dawn in Labours fortunes he's made a massive misjudgement. Today's across the card polls tell their own story.

 

As for Long Bailey herself, I'm not her greatest fan but she did come second in the leadership election so must have her supporters. What I will say is like Nandy she is capable of thinking on her feet and putting across a clear, concise argument which is needed on Labours front bench more than ever. Same for McDonnell. Anyway it's not the individuals I'm championing it's the bringing the two wings of the party back together to form some sort of effective opposition to the government. The Labour party of the past few months has lacked fight and has looked jaded. Can Starmer turn things around? I think so, but he needs to stop this public purge of the left. It hasn't worked.  

[Captain Turdseye]

I just went out and leafleted 160+ houses in 2 hours by myself with a bad back. All massive driveways, some with up to four nice cars. Waste of time really. Probably get about five votes out of it. It was an area two minutes walk from my house (I’d never been up that road before, didn’t realise it was so posh!) so I volunteered but the two councillors standing there for us, a husband and wife, haven’t bothered with any social media or anything like that, even though they’ve been on the council for years and know the drill. Scooby is right. Apathy has well and truly set in. 

Had much more fun on Monday when I was out with my mate where he’s standing. That’s me done now this time. 
 

Had a couple of people this week come out and talk about Tory sleaze. Not showing in the polls yet but maybe it’s slowly cutting through...

[Captain Turdseye]

McDonnell and Lewis should be prominent in the media for me, Clive. Plenty of room for left voices to be heard as well as the more ‘centre’ front benchers. 

[Captain Turdseye]

For me Clive. 

[Rushies tash]

1 minute ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

I don't get what you mean, sorry?

 

You mean the unity promise, if so that's fucked.

The unity bit only ever worked one way, so agree with you there. And admittedly, the "real opposition" stuff only ever came from Tory commentators - with hindsight, they were being too generous. 

[Neil G]

36 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

He did set out a policy programe, of sorts, with the dud conference he did to camera when he talked about bonds and the country dozed off..

 

Last week they announced a really progressive, forward thinking policy around grants for start ups, something like Slovakia have where they guarantee a grant of up to £20/30k for young enterprise start ups, great idea. Literally nobody mentioned it on the rounds, amazingly amateur.

 

The messaging and connection are fucked, he and the team he's put together are one step off the pace at all times and this needs to be looked at seriously.

Far too small in scope and ambition to cut through. Got to have much bigger and bolder proposals if they want to get a hearing.

[Bruce Spanner]

10 minutes ago, Neil G said:

Far too small in scope and ambition to cut through. Got to have much bigger and bolder proposals if they want to get a hearing.

 

The grant thing is a great idea and as one of many policies it would be an excellent progressive idea, but they did so little with it that it was embarassing. They announced a Social Care policy this morning, literally nothing since, not even an email to members about it, well not that I've had anyway.

 

I agree with you though.

 

Maybe they're waiting until we get to a point where we can assume the worst of Covid is behind us and then get to it, but we're days out from a by election, locals and mayoral, if so it's terrible as we're hoping they fuck up more than trust in our own ideas.

[Numero Veinticinco]

10 hours ago, Neil G said:

It’s the keeping the head down that’s the reason for the abysmal polling. Voters have no idea what Labour under Starmer stands for, what they would do in government.

It doesn’t make sense. Keeping their head down and rebuilding from the utter disaster that the Labour Party was wasn’t the cause of abysmal polling until January because it didn’t exist until late January. I’m not saying that focus groups - the ones he is ridiculed for listening to - have been saying it for a lot longer than the polls have been abysmal.

It also wouldn’t make too much sense to go into great detail about what you’d do in four years time with so little certainty about the state of the country. If you release details about the policies that are going to be in your manifesto this early, then the situation changes, you end up looking clueless. I think they do need to have some stuff out there - and they do - but you’ve indicated that’s not enough. So what would you have him do? It be never known any political party, any leader, to ever go into full manifesto territory this early. Mainly because it would be reprehensibly stupid to do so. So my question is, what should they be doing now in order to win the election - the long term goal - in your view? 

[Captain Turdseye]

Be more aggressive for one. The ammunition is there to be attacking this government every day. Added bonus to that is the front bench would gain more of a public profile so people know who they are when the election rolls around. I’m a member and I couldn’t name half of the shadow cabinet if you asked me. 

[Bruce Spanner]

2 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

Be more aggressive for one. The ammunition is there to be attacking this government every day.

 

 

Where do you go with this shit though, the voters know and they don’t fucking care, it’s beyond bizarre.

 

‘In the real world: The sleaze stuff doesn’t seem to be cutting through, or the public doesn’t care about it. The Times splashes a YouGov poll showing the Tories leading Labour by 11 points, despite half of respondents agreeing the Tories are sleazy and a third saying Johnson is less honest than other politicians. YouGov’s Anthony Wells said people elected Johnson knowing what he was like and “didn’t expect him to be the cleanest of the clean.” As most Tories calculate: Johnson is a winner and his baggage is priced in with voters, so better to stick with him despite the glaring refusal to be transparent about this and the resulting distraction.

It gets worse for Starmer: The poll showed Labour on 29 percent among working class people, compared with 48 percent for the Tories; the BMG poll in the Independent showed Starmer’s personal rating down 4 points; and in Scotland his rating plummeted 9 points, according to the latest Savanta Comres poll, which bodes ill for the next general election. This bloke seemed to sum things up when he punked Starmer on the campaign trail.

 

Related? Playbook can confirm reports Starmer aide Simon Fletcher will quit following the local elections. He’s said to want to work on other projects. Owen Jones was first with the news, as he made clear to Politics For All.’

[Captain Turdseye]

I edited my post, Bruce. Probably doesn’t change your response but all they can do is just keep banging the drum. Also roll over a lot of the better stuff from the previous manifesto like he pledged to do. Answer questions with “well, in the last general election Labour promised...” That might also pacify some of the members that like moaning on Twitter. 

[Section_31]

Mad how the wallpaper shit has drowned out the bodies pile high. A serving prime minister said he'd knowingly let you and yours die.

 

This stuff doesn't surprise me in the slightest as my opinion of these people is so low to begin with, but I'm still genuinely surprised that the casual voter seems untroubled by it. 

 

Most of the talk on gmtv this morning is about whether Carrie Symonds will be on strictly come dancing, even though Kate Garraway's husband is a vegetable thanks in part to above covid strategy. Top banter. 

[Bjornebye]

23 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

Be more aggressive for one. The ammunition is there to be attacking this government every day. Added bonus to that is the front bench would gain more of a public profile so people know who they are when the election rolls around. I’m a member and I couldn’t name half of the shadow cabinet if you asked me. 

Where though? They do so on Twitter particularly Angela Rayner bu it doesn’t make any headlines and the media aren’t exactly forthcoming in letting the opposition speak out on tv that much. Kuntberger was already playing down the Dyson stuff the Tory mouthpiece cow 

[skend04]

14 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Mad how the wallpaper shit has drowned out the bodies pile high. A serving prime minister said he'd knowingly let you and yours die.

 

This stuff doesn't surprise me in the slightest as my opinion of these people is so low to begin with, but I'm still genuinely surprised that the casual voter seems untroubled by it. 

 

Most of the talk on gmtv this morning is about whether Carrie Symonds will be on strictly come dancing, even though Kate Garraway's husband is a vegetable thanks in part to above covid strategy. Top banter. 

Exactly this. People here are wondering why Labour aren't performing better, maybe the party has to do more but when the public has a huge satisfaction rating for a person that has allowed 150k deaths as a starter then you've got to question the moral compass of that 40%. I think there'd be less anger or dissatisfaction with Labour if you just took the position that the majority of English voters are cunts. 

[Section_31]

10 minutes ago, skend04 said:

Exactly this. People here are wondering why Labour aren't performing better, maybe the party has to do more but when the public has a huge satisfaction rating for a person that has allowed 150k deaths as a starter then you've got to question the moral compass of that 40%. I think there'd be less anger or dissatisfaction with Labour if you just took the position that the majority of English voters are cunts. 

 

I think Johnson poses a double problem for an opponent. On one level he appeals to the old fashioned Tory because of his wacky eccentric Bullingdon shtick, but he also appeals to the British equivalent of the Trump working class because they quite like the fact he pisses off people they hate.

[Captain Turdseye]

31 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Where though? They do so on Twitter particularly Angela Rayner bu it doesn’t make any headlines and the media aren’t exactly forthcoming in letting the opposition speak out on tv that much. Kuntberger was already playing down the Dyson stuff the Tory mouthpiece cow 

I can’t answer that, I don’t know. Surely the PLP and those in senior roles at Labour HQ could make it happen more often than they’re doing now. They’ve got a PR department and years of contacts to call upon. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

54 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

Be more aggressive for one. The ammunition is there to be attacking this government every day. Added bonus to that is the front bench would gain more of a public profile so people know who they are when the election rolls around. I’m a member and I couldn’t name half of the shadow cabinet if you asked me. 

Did you see yesterday’s PMQs? He gets plenty of attacking in, but he’s allowed to get away with not answering them just making up bullshit. Labour can’t get into the position where the are the ones seen as people who will just protest everything and whine about everything and allow the Tories to keep saying ‘we are getting things done, we are the serious party’. At this point there needs to be visibility and credible rebuttals, not aggression and attacks. They need a massive set of proposals that are all funded, with clear arguments and counter arguments so that when the election is 12-18 months out, they can bring out the big guns. 
 

What can be done until then other than to pick at opportunities as they arise. Not much, I’d argue. I’d like to see them out and about around the country. That’s something Corbyn and his crew did well at. 

[Bruce Spanner]

5 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

I can’t answer that, I don’t know. Surely the PLP and those in senior roles at Labour HQ could make it happen more often than they’re doing now. They’ve got a PR department and years of contacts to call upon. 

 

They have shadow ministers on everything, every day and night, Starmer has his own show on LBC.

 

The exposure is there, the messaging and presentation is the issue.

[skend04]

10 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

I think Johnson poses a double problem for an opponent. On one level he appeals to the old fashioned Tory because of his wacky eccentric Bullingdon shtick, but he also appeals to the British equivalent of the Trump working class because they quite like the fact he pisses off people they hate.

Yep. I'm sure I've seen reports say this exact thing about voter intentions. The right-wingers don't solely vote for a Trump or a Johnson, they vote to make 'lefties' angry. Bizarre. Would watch their countries burn as long as they could revel in more sane-minded people being aghast at it.

[Numero Veinticinco]

8 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

They have shadow ministers on everything, every day and night, Starmer has his own show on LBC.

 

The exposure is there, the messaging and presentation is the issue.

Starmer has his own show on LBC?