Man City - the new bitters?

[sh#t waffle]

3 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Latest rumour I heard, city are willing to accept lesser guilty plea, massive fine, small points deduction to kick in at a time of City's choosing. They keep all their trophies. 

Sounds reasonable - I'd imagine they'll want it to apply between June and July, which is only fair. I say go for it.

[elvis]

2 hours ago, Freddo said:

That Stefan Borson fella who was on talksport yesterday saying he thinks they'll clear their name is a right defensive little cunt. 

Goes under the name of sblsn on twitter. Posts on blue moon.  Also used to work for city between 01 and 07. Finance expert and all the city wetwipes hang their hat on him.

He told me to fuck off once, I'd snap the cunt in two. 

If the PL don't punish them heavily it's basically Abu Dhabi running this league and then it's time for a breakaway. 

 

 

Anyone ever seen Freddo and Anny road in the same room?

[Barrington Womble]

15 minutes ago, sh#t waffle said:

Sounds reasonable - I'd imagine they'll want it to apply between June and July, which is only fair. I say go for it.

Yeah, fucking nuts isn't it. But I guess the PL know they'll be lawyered up looking for loopholes and getting off on a technicality. I guess it'll all come down to the PL lawyers being confident not just in their case, but also the rules themselves not giving city an easy out. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

3 hours ago, Freddo said:

That Stefan Borson fella who was on talksport yesterday saying he thinks they'll clear their name is a right defensive little cunt. 

Goes under the name of sblsn on twitter. Posts on blue moon.  Also used to work for city between 01 and 07. Finance expert and all the city wetwipes hang their hat on him.

He told me to fuck off once, I'd snap the cunt in two. 

If the PL don't punish them heavily it's basically Abu Dhabi running this league and then it's time for a breakaway. 

 

It's up to fans. Don't turn up to your teams game v City let the world look at empty stands and ask why.. because city are cheats and their glory is stolen.

[Bobby Hundreds]

There should be a fan led campaign called F.A.C.T. fans against cheating twats.

[dave u]

19 hours ago, Burgess said:

I’ve never understood why they are going for all 115 charges at once. Surely it would be an easier to break them down. 
Say the 35 for not cooperating- failure to comply is easy to prove. Deal with these and then pick another set or period. 
that would have been better than allowing this vast amount to build up. 

 

Yeah, failure to comply is black and white, there's no argument to be had.

 

"Send us over documents X, Y and Z please"

 

"No"

 

"Sound, that's a 10 point penalty. We'll ask again next month".

[elvis]

5 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

Yeah, failure to comply is black and white, there's no argument to be had.

 

"Send us over documents X, Y and Z please"

 

"No"

 

"Sound, that's a 10 point penalty. We'll ask again next month".

Yes , it's amazing how this is asked constantly in the media, if Everton and forest had refused a view of their books would they have been treated so leniently? 

Fuckin doubt it 

[dave u]

2 hours ago, elvis said:

Yes , it's amazing how this is asked constantly in the media, if Everton and forest had refused a view of their books would they have been treated so leniently? 

Fuckin doubt it 

 

That's the weird thing isn't it? They have actively just refused to do something that isn't optional, and was agreed by all of the clubs. If Everton had refused to co-operate they'd be 10 points better off right now, albeit facing other charges down the road for not being compliant. That's just completely not acceptable though and is the point that should be getting hammered home by everyone in the media that ever speaks about it.

 

That's basically the only grievance Everton can have about this whole thing. Yes they're guilty, yes there is absolutely no excuse for the mess they got themselves in, but if they'd acted like City and said "fuck off, we're not showing you the accounts" then they'd not have been punished for it yet and would be sitting in mid table.

[KevieG]

How dirty must the latest set of books really be, 700 million in revenue for a club that can't fill their ground. And still putting Haaland down for 375k per week. He has his pick of clubs and a low transfer fee and he settles for that in a club with unlimited money.  Its no wonder they stopped cooperating. 

They are up to their necks in it.

 

Best thing that happened was Everton and Forest going rogue and getting punished. They are going to have to come down hard on them now.

[No2]

Are we sure they haven't submitted accounts? My understanding is the charges relate to failure to cooperate with the enquiry. I'm sure they have submitted accounts each year, probably on gold paper, wrapped in a bow with £700m emblazoned on the front page and Real Madrid mentioned in the footnotes (more revenue than Real Madrid highlighted for extra affect).

[Barrington Womble]

2 hours ago, No2 said:

Are we sure they haven't submitted accounts? My understanding is the charges relate to failure to cooperate with the enquiry. I'm sure they have submitted accounts each year, probably on gold paper, wrapped in a bow with £700m emblazoned on the front page and Real Madrid mentioned in the footnotes (more revenue than Real Madrid highlighted for extra affect).

Yeah, I thought they'd submitted accounts too. I am pretty sure when the PL charged Everton and forest last week that was everyone else in the clear on the basis of the new timetable they're running. 

[Trumo]

3 hours ago, No2 said:

Are we sure they haven't submitted accounts? My understanding is the charges relate to failure to cooperate with the enquiry. I'm sure they have submitted accounts each year, probably on gold paper, wrapped in a bow with £700m emblazoned on the front page and Real Madrid mentioned in the footnotes (more revenue than Real Madrid highlighted for extra affect).

 

I don't know how many of the 115 charges relate to obstruction and non-cooperation, and I don't know if Abu Dhabi have actually filed any accounts for the period in question. It could be that if they don't submit anything, they can't be charged for anything untoward found in the books. You can't make a charge stick if you don't have any evidence to back up your claims. I know there are countless examples where the opposite is true, but generally organisations aren't going to go down the legal route and make claims against another without something to back their case. The more watertight the better.

 

One thing I would say is that any auditors who knowingly sign off on dodgy accounting practices should have their reputations dragged through the gutter, along with the organisations who partook in the dodgy accounting practices.

 

Another thing I would say is that there should not be a time bar on valid evidence. All it does is allow nation states to invest their ill-gotten gains, filibuster up to the time deadline, and effectively launder that money in full view. Any sportwashing occurs a little later when media fail to report on the facts, authorities turn a blind eye, and everyone else just can't be arsed.

[Scott_M]

22 hours ago, Fallen Angel said:

They were using threats - the ‘technicality’ just meant EUFA could save face. I thought the ‘technicality’ was more to do with how EUFA got the information to initiate action in the first place? 

I believe CAS raised concerns about how the evidence was acquired but didn’t dismiss it. UEFA also dropped a bollock as they didn’t go far enough to prove some of the claims.

 

Ultimately, UEFA’s rules say they have to prove any cases within a certain time period & UEFA didn’t do it, hence why CAS sided with City.

 

I don’t know what the legal process would have been had CAS ruled with UEFA. 

[Scott_M]

21 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Latest rumour I heard, city are willing to accept lesser guilty plea, massive fine, small points deduction to kick in at a time of City's choosing. They keep all their trophies. 

Im sure Pablo Escobar tried a similar defence. And the Cali Cartel.

“Well go to jail on our terms and keep all our money”.

 

But it’s other clubs in the league who are the cartel. 

[Fallen Angel]

14 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

I believe CAS raised concerns about how the evidence was acquired but didn’t dismiss it. UEFA also dropped a bollock as they didn’t go far enough to prove some of the claims.

 

Ultimately, UEFA’s rules say they have to prove any cases within a certain time period & UEFA didn’t do it, hence why CAS sided with City.

 

I don’t know what the legal process would have been had CAS ruled with UEFA. 

Cheers - I recall reading a long article about it all - it should never have been allowed to reach this point. 

[Scott_M]

11 minutes ago, Fallen Angel said:

Cheers - I recall reading a long article about it all - it should never have been allowed to reach this point. 

True. Who investigated & fined them in 2013-ish? They are the ones who dropped the ball. 

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, Scott_M said:

True. Who investigated & fined them in 2013-ish? They are the ones who dropped the ball. 

 

City were charged and fined in 2014 for ffp breaches. But this was based purely on the accounts submitted by city. 

 

The case that ended up in CAS, the basis for uefa's investigation were the football leaks emails. The leak didn't happen till September 2015. And there was likely a period of proving the validity. I think uefa asked city about them without reply for a period (not sure when) and then it was 2018 before they eventually started an official investigation and reopened the case and Feb 2020 before they were initially punished. 

 

I'm sure there were periods where uefa could have worked more quickly. But the crux of uefa's issues was this ridiculous regulation that time bars charges even in the case of fraud. I understand if no fraud is involved, but for me the idea that a club can commit fraud, but if they keep quiet enough for a couple of years, it's all ok is ridiculous. For example I think with HMRC, there is a 4 year time bar for innocent or negligent mistakes which then extends the period to 6 years. But with fraud they can go back 20 years. 

 

The premier League also has a rule compelling clubs to act with honesty and good faith, I don't know if UEFA has something similar, but it should. 

 

No doubt UEFA ballsed up with City, but I don't think 2013 was when that happened. It started when the FFP rules were put together. It without doubt was a problem with the time loss between 2015 leaks and 2018 charges. But it's tough for the guys doing their day to day job if city are lying and cheating. 

 

 

[Bobby Hundreds]

City are going to win the league again. I'm 100 percent certain of that I don't even think that's being negative I think we will have a great end to the season but it still won't be enough against these cheating fucking bastards. It will be yet another year of being a waste of fucking time, you can't compete against a nation state using all its wealth alongside cheating. Just keep pushing all the way. Yup I'm bitter about the leagues we've been robbed of by the tiniest of details when the one giant detail of the eventual winners cheating wins the day. 

[Barrington Womble]

23 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

City are going to win the league again. I'm 100 percent certain of that I don't even think that's being negative I think we will have a great end to the season but it still won't be enough against these cheating fucking bastards. It will be yet another year of being a waste of fucking time, you can't compete against a nation state using all its wealth alongside cheating. Just keep pushing all the way. Yup I'm bitter about the leagues we've been robbed of by the tiniest of details when the one giant detail of the eventual winners cheating wins the day. 

 

I think this year is a bit different. In the past they would have such a deep bench, when they weren't doing well, they'd still have 5 stars to bring off the bench. That's not their strength this year. For me it's course and distance and they probably have the best 2 players in the league by some way in de bruyne and haaland. I think the reason we are top of the league now is we actually have had that 5 good subs to change in each game that's normally city's thing. I think if we can get some players fit and get back to the squad we had before December, I think we can give them a run for their money. And if haaland and de bruyne struggle with fitness the way they have in the 1st half of the season, we can probably see those other teams in the top 5 come into the fight. 

[an tha]

They haven't had Haaland since December 6th when they lost at Aston Villa.

 

5 league games - Won 4, Drawn 1.

 

Not against the stiffest opposition mind - Luton, Palace, Sheffield Utd, The Shite, Saudi Arabia. 

 

The cheating bastards tend to come on really strong in 2nd half of season and De Bruyne being back is massive for them.

 

All we can do is keep getting results - But this season I just don't see them getting a stupid total like in previous races against them they are on 43 from 20....that is 82 pts form, they'll improve 2nd half no doubt...We are currently running at 85/86.

 

I honestly believe though if we can get around 86/87 pts it will likely be enough.

 

So 42 from last 18.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scott_M]

8 minutes ago, an tha said:

They haven't had Haaland since December 6th when they lost at Aston Villa.

 

5 league games - Won 4, Drawn 1.

 

Not against the stiffest opposition mind - Luton, Palace, Sheffield Utd, The Shite, Saudi Arabia. 

 

The cheating bastards tend to come on really strong in 2nd half of season and De Bruyne being back is massive for them.

 

All we can do is keep getting results - But this season I just don't see them getting a stupid total like in previous races against them they are on 43 from 20....that is 82 pts form, they'll improve 2nd half no doubt...We are currently running at 85/86.

 

I honestly believe though if we can get around 86/87 pts it will likely be enough.

 

So 42 from last 18.

I agree. IMO, 90 is certain to win it. 
 

At the moment we roughly winning 2/3.
 

We need to change that to 3/4. Keep our defensive record, be more clinical with the chances we’re creating. 
 

I’m not saying we will do it, I think we can do it. 

[TheBitch]

45 minutes ago, an tha said:

They haven't had Haaland since December 6th when they lost at Aston Villa.

 

5 league games - Won 4, Drawn 1.

 

Not against the stiffest opposition mind - Luton, Palace, Sheffield Utd, The Shite, Saudi Arabia. 

 

The cheating bastards tend to come on really strong in 2nd half of season and De Bruyne being back is massive for them.

 

All we can do is keep getting results - But this season I just don't see them getting a stupid total like in previous races against them they are on 43 from 20....that is 82 pts form, they'll improve 2nd half no doubt...We are currently running at 85/86.

 

I honestly believe though if we can get around 86/87 pts it will likely be enough.

 

So 42 from last 18.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We need @The Woolster to do us a running points total. I loved those weekly updates he gave us. 

[Jennings]

Too many people are making too much money from them. They won't face any real sort of justice.

[Remmie]

15 minutes ago, TheBitch said:

We need @The Woolster to do us a running points total. I loved those weekly updates he gave us. 

And the legendary big 'fuck off' line

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, an tha said:

They haven't had Haaland since December 6th when they lost at Aston Villa.

 

5 league games - Won 4, Drawn 1.

 

Not against the stiffest opposition mind - Luton, Palace, Sheffield Utd, The Shite, Saudi Arabia. 

 

The cheating bastards tend to come on really strong in 2nd half of season and De Bruyne being back is massive for them.

 

All we can do is keep getting results - But this season I just don't see them getting a stupid total like in previous races against them they are on 43 from 20....that is 82 pts form, they'll improve 2nd half no doubt...We are currently running at 85/86.

 

I honestly believe though if we can get around 86/87 pts it will likely be enough.

 

So 42 from last 18.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, the teams they've played have been poor and in a section of the season when the poor teams struggle with the number of games and haven't got all week to prepare. And they've looked less than convincing in many of those games.

 

I'm not thinking points too hard. I feel for sure if anyone gets 90, it's won. But anything less than that? For us, I think it's a question of keeping our noses in front. If they get in front, I think their history in doing this time and again will be enough to see them home. So really how I see us winning it - managing to keep in front, be that as low as 80 points or high as 89. And being in front of them when they come to anfield will be really crucial. Normally in these run ins when we've lost, we've had to go to them and even if we got a point, we always needed the win. Hopefully we can reverse that this year.