VAR Thoughts?

[VladimirIlyich]

Just now, Ne Moe Imya said:

The anti-VAR crowd seem to have completely forgotten how terrible the officiating was in the pre-VAR days.

 

Does VAR get it wrong on occasion? Yes, and we should work to reduce that. Is it anywhere near as bad as it used to be? Not even close.

 

There are millions of examples of egregious calls in extremely important games, but I always remember that but for this absolutely outrageous offsides call, Gerrard would have won the league and lifted the trophy as capitain:
 

 

That sort of thing used to happen ALL THE TIME.

And it still happens.

[Barnesey]

The trouble with VAR - and it will always be the issue however it is tweaked - is the freezing of the game whilst an incident is forensically investigated.

 

This kills the game we love and, at the same time, does very little to improve the accuracy of decisions made. It was brought in to protect the referees from criticism - I’d suggest it hasn’t been a success on this front either. 

[Bob]

1 hour ago, Barnesey said:

The trouble with VAR - and it will always be the issue however it is tweaked - is the freezing of the game whilst an incident is forensically investigated.

 

This kills the game we love and, at the same time, does very little to improve the accuracy of decisions made. It was brought in to protect the referees from criticism - I’d suggest it hasn’t been a success on this front either. 

And to stop internet virgins arguing i

on the internet. Jury’s out there too.

[Bob]

3 hours ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

The anti-VAR crowd seem to have completely forgotten how terrible the officiating was in the pre-VAR days.

 

Does VAR get it wrong on occasion? Yes, and we should work to reduce that. Is it anywhere near as bad as it used to be? Not even close.

 

There are millions of examples of egregious calls in extremely important games, but I always remember that but for this absolutely outrageous offsides call, Gerrard would have won the league and lifted the trophy as capitain:
 

 

That sort of thing used to happen ALL THE TIME.

My question to you is, of all the goals we’ve scored since VAR came in - which is hundreds and hundreds - what percentage do you believe you’ve genuinely celebrated fully in the moment?

 

Chelsea last week, at the match in person, I didn’t really celebrate the first properly cause of the “we’ll find an offensive handball if we can” doctrine.

 

second one I went nuts at the time but we were all cut short in singing the lads name for his first senior goal due to a lengthy check, so while I celebrated the goal it was stunted overall.

 

I remember a header Mo scored last year where it might’ve gone out of play so nobody cheered, even Mo didn’t bother.

 

I reckon, just as a feeling, with no science to back it up, I reckon I’ve fully, properly celebrated less than half the goals we’ve scored since VAR came in.

 

I’ve also sat and got frustrated watching the interminable delays. I’ve also had to watch legitimate goals be ruled out for armpit, chest hair and toenail offsides.

 

I’ve also had to watch my players sent off for the same things other don’t.

 

I’ve also had to watch a legitimate goal be disallowed because of a good process.

 

you can point to Sterling vs City, and we can each then go onto remember another half a dozen or so injustices in the old ways, but I’m not sure I can remember more from the equivalent number of years pre-var as I can post, honestly.

 

and for what?

 

 

 

 

[VladimirIlyich]

If,and this is a big if,it was to have some kind of success it would have to be governed with a very short timescale of no more than 10 seconds to find fault at match speed or that's it. The goal celebrations could be cut short in almost the same time as an assistant's flag. Any more than that and you can fuck off. The current 3-5 minutes for penalties,red cards,offsides is simply not fit for purpose and is not better than manual decisions previously. 

[Pidge]

5 hours ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

The anti-VAR crowd seem to have completely forgotten how terrible the officiating was in the pre-VAR days.

 

Does VAR get it wrong on occasion? Yes, and we should work to reduce that. Is it anywhere near as bad as it used to be? Not even close.

 

There are millions of examples of egregious calls in extremely important games, but I always remember that but for this absolutely outrageous offsides call, Gerrard would have won the league and lifted the trophy as capitain:
 

 

That sort of thing used to happen ALL THE TIME.

 

Maybe we should've not lost to Hull earlier in the month, or drawn at goodison

[Ne Moe Imya]

18 hours ago, Bob said:

My question to you is, of all the goals we’ve scored since VAR came in - which is hundreds and hundreds - what percentage do you believe you’ve genuinely celebrated fully in the moment?

 

Chelsea last week, at the match in person, I didn’t really celebrate the first properly cause of the “we’ll find an offensive handball if we can” doctrine.

 

second one I went nuts at the time but we were all cut short in singing the lads name for his first senior goal due to a lengthy check, so while I celebrated the goal it was stunted overall.

 

I remember a header Mo scored last year where it might’ve gone out of play so nobody cheered, even Mo didn’t bother.

 

I reckon, just as a feeling, with no science to back it up, I reckon I’ve fully, properly celebrated less than half the goals we’ve scored since VAR came in.

 

I’ve also sat and got frustrated watching the interminable delays. I’ve also had to watch legitimate goals be ruled out for armpit, chest hair and toenail offsides.

 

I’ve also had to watch my players sent off for the same things other don’t.

 

I’ve also had to watch a legitimate goal be disallowed because of a good process.

 

you can point to Sterling vs City, and we can each then go onto remember another half a dozen or so injustices in the old ways, but I’m not sure I can remember more from the equivalent number of years pre-var as I can post, honestly.

 

and for what?

 

 

 

 

 

I totally agree with you about the celebration and lack of spontaneity.

 

But I think it is ridiculously disingenuous to pretend that there weren't FAR more injustices before VAR came into being. If your argument is "yes, we had a crucial match-deciding decision go wrong in an obvious way every other match, but it's worth having that to be able to celebrate goals in the moment more" then I can respect that.

I disagree with it, but I can respect it. What I can't countenance is the idea that there are just as many bad calls now as there ever were, so what's the point in VAR?

 

Personally, I think there's a middle ground somewhere, since the VAR genie is not going back in the bottle. There is simply no way the public and the media would tolerate important games being decided by obviously wrong offsides decisions like the one I posted above any more, not when there's a simple solution just waiting to be implemented.

 

I think the best solution is probably that VAR will be used exclusively for handballs and red cards, they will develop an automated offsides technological solution (a la goalline technology) and we won't see VAR used as often any more.

[Code]

But with VAR you get to celebrate goals twice. 

[Bob]

1 hour ago, Code said:

But with VAR you get to celebrate goals twice. 

That use of “celebrate” needs a very big pair of “air quotes”.

[Bob]

6 hours ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

 

I totally agree with you about the celebration and lack of spontaneity.

 

But I think it is ridiculously disingenuous to pretend that there weren't FAR more injustices before VAR came into being. If your argument is "yes, we had a , but it's worth having that to be able to celebrate goals in the moment more" then I can respect that.

I disagree with it, but I can respect it. What I can't countenance is the idea that there are just as many bad calls now as there ever were, so what's the point in VAR?

 

Personally, I think there's a middle ground somewhere, since the VAR genie is not going back in the bottle. There is simply no way the public and the media would tolerate important games being decided by obviously wrong offsides decisions like the one I posted above any more, not when there's a simple solution just waiting to be implemented.

 

I think the best solution is probably that VAR will be used exclusively for handballs and red cards, they will develop an automated offsides technological solution (a la goalline technology) and we won't see VAR used as often any more.

I don’t remember there being a “crucial match-deciding decision go wrong in an obvious way every other match” personally. I remember there being shit I complained about with refs and bad decisions but that’s still the case now. 
 

I do remember there being things like the Sterling offside, the flagrant non sending off of a Chelsea player for something egregious, and I’m sure a decent number more, but for those I can straight away say - Pickford on van dijk, Bobby offside by an armpit, Diaz not offside plus two terrible red cards in a single match, and Odegaard non-handball off the very top of my head.

 

im not saying it’s worse than it was in terms of getting decisions wrong. I’m saying it’s not sufficiently better to be worth the trade off of having the most spontaneous joy you can ask for to be spoiled. 

[Jennings]

STOP SENDING EVERY GOAL FOR A VAR REVIEW, YOU CUNTS!

[Kevin D]

I made the mistake of celebrating Van Dijk’s first goal, just because I could clearly see he was not offside.

 

Rookie error on my part, I should know better.

[Jennings]

16 minutes ago, Kevin D said:

I made the mistake of celebrating Van Dijk’s first goal, just because I could clearly see he was not offside.

 

Rookie error on my part, I should know better.

Same. VAR is so fucked. It's like playing against 2 teams. The opposition and the officials.

[Dicko]

It is not VAR it is the officials operating it.

They are fucking shit.

[Leyton388]

Never celebrate a goal anymore as you just know they'll try anything to rule it out. That decision today was absolutely disgraceful. You can guarantee that no other goals will be ruled out this season for the same thing. 

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

11 minutes ago, Leyton388 said:

Never celebrate a goal anymore as you just know they'll try anything to rule it out. That decision today was absolutely disgraceful. You can guarantee that no other goals will be ruled out this season for the same thing. 

Exactly this is the problem. And that’s not because of VAR.

[an tha]

It is absolutely dogshite.

 

That disallowed goal today was just an absolutely perfect example of how it is just sucking the joy out of football, a massive explosion of joy killed by the use of system being used in the worst manner possible....especially given as yet again nobody could properly keep the people in the ground watching game a proper idea of what was going on.

 

The big screens had checking for offside on them - then suddenly the ref is off to a pitchside monitor....they don't use pitchside monitors for offside - but there was zero communication of what was happening, just still screens saying checking for offside.

 

There VAR checked goal was given as offside by lino, but we have to endure an age whilst they 'check' and nobody in ground has a clue what is happening.

 

Just shite.

 

Clueless clowns sucking the joy out of the game.

 

It and how the idiots use it is just abysmal.

 

 

[Jose Jones]

2 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

Exactly this is the problem. And that’s not because of VAR.

Of course it is.

You will always get refs who run games differently, some will give free kicks where others will play on. That is natural.

With VAR they analyse every single goal scored looking for any reason to rule it out.

[Bob]

24 minutes ago, Dicko said:

It is not VAR it is the officials operating it.

They are fucking shit.

Piss off. In the nicest possible way. They are one.

 

No VAR in previous rounds - everyone happy to the point that it's being openly discussed as being a positive on radio and TV. 

 

Var in the final, disallows a perfectly good goal simply because they can.

 

Ita dreadful.

[Aventus]

29 minutes ago, Bob said:

Piss off. In the nicest possible way. They are one.

 

No VAR in previous rounds - everyone happy to the point that it's being openly discussed as being a positive on radio and TV. 

 

Var in the final, disallows a perfectly good goal simply because they can.

 

Ita dreadful.

Playing devil's advocate, the Chelsea goal would have stood with no VAR. 

 

Might have been a different game and result if we had to chase it from behind. 

[an tha]

8 minutes ago, Aventus said:

Playing devil's advocate, the Chelsea goal would have stood with no VAR. 

 

Might have been a different game and result if we had to chase it from behind. 

No it wouldn't lino flagged it as off.

[derykw]

9 minutes ago, Aventus said:

Playing devil's advocate, the Chelsea goal would have stood with no VAR. 

 

Might have been a different game and result if we had to chase it from behind. 

Incorrect!

 

It was rightly flagged offside at the time.

[Aventus]

1 hour ago, derykw said:

Incorrect!

 

It was rightly flagged offside at the time.

Ah OK, nevermind then.

[Bob]

6 hours ago, Aventus said:

Playing devil's advocate, the Chelsea goal would have stood with no VAR. 

 

Might have been a different game and result if we had to chase it from behind. 

No it wouldn't. The lino flagged offside.

[Pete]

Get it in the bin ( and put the PGMOL in too).