Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[cloggypop]

9 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I think this is nonsense designed to deflect all criticism of Corbyn as being inspired by right-wing fear of socialism, or even more sinister motives. Pick someone politically close to Corbyn - Clive Lewis, for example. Has Clive Lewis ever done any of the extra-curricular things (I won't go to the trouble of listing them all here, we know what they are) that Corbyn has been attacked for? Of course he hasn't. Very few MPs have as much political baggage as Corbyn.

 

It's no skin off my nose, but I think it harms your cause if you're going to portray all critics of Corbyn as being motivated by ideological blinkers rather than opposition to aspects that are peculiar to the man himself.

[Jairzinho]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

Is it possible a radical agenda is not electable?

Is it possible that it isn't remotely radical?

[Captain Turdseye]

13 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I think this is nonsense designed to deflect all criticism of Corbyn as being inspired by right-wing fear of socialism, or even more sinister motives. Pick someone politically close to Corbyn - Clive Lewis, for example. Has Clive Lewis ever done any of the extra-curricular things (I won't go to the trouble of listing them all here, we know what they are) that Corbyn has been attacked for? Of course he hasn't. Very few MPs have as much political baggage as Corbyn.

 

It's no skin off my nose, but I think it harms your cause if you're going to portray all critics of Corbyn as being motivated by ideological blinkers rather than opposition to aspects that are peculiar to the man himself.

 

Clive Lewis is a SEX PEST.

[Bjornebye]

18 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I think this is nonsense designed to deflect all criticism of Corbyn as being inspired by right-wing fear of socialism, or even more sinister motives. Pick someone politically close to Corbyn - Clive Lewis, for example. Has Clive Lewis ever done any of the extra-curricular things (I won't go to the trouble of listing them all here, we know what they are) that Corbyn has been attacked for? Of course he hasn't. Very few MPs have as much political baggage as Corbyn.

 

It's no skin off my nose, but I think it harms your cause if you're going to portray all critics of Corbyn as being motivated by ideological blinkers rather than opposition to aspects that are peculiar to the man himself.

Do you think that Corbyn is a sympathiser of terrorism or sympathetic to a cause that is against genocidal behaviour? 

[polymerpunkah]

Quote

Has Clive Lewis ever done any of the extra-curricular things (I won't go to the trouble of listing them all here, we know what they are) that Corbyn has been attacked for?

Has Corbyn?

 

 

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, polymerpunkah said:

Has Corbyn?

 

 

Exactly. 

[Brownie]

42 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Bottom line, I think there's somebody who could increase Labour's chances of winning based on the same manifesto; even more so if they change the manifesto to make it a bit smarter and more focused. Given the opposition, I think they could slam-dunk the fuckers, actually. That said, rather than go that direction, I think Labour members will go deeper down that rabbit-hole. I think there's a big split coming. Some will rejoice because it will get the 'right wing' like the centre-leftists out of the party, but they will relegate themselves to being also-rans. 

Well I respectfully disagree. The character assassination of Corbyn is a result of the threat to the establishment those policies possess.

 

I agree that Labour could have a leader that would decimate the Tories but where we disagree is that I think that leader would need to dilute the policies to achieve it.

[TheHowieLama]

26 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Is it possible that it isn't remotely radical?

Those were Moof's words not mine. 

[Brownie]

It’s funny how we’re talking about alleged “extra curricular activities” by Corbyn at a time when the incumbent Prime Minister is openly breaking the law, lying to the Queen, culling dissenters in his party and stoking the fire of Nationalist hate crimes.

 

Corbyn has been framed as a “loose cannon” and ”dangerous” yet the current Prime Minister is actually engaging in all of that and more, whilst being egged-on by those who have the nerve to criticise Corbyn.

 

It’s a combination of scary and hilarious.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

At least Corbyn hasn't got it in for the gays. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

In other terrorism supporting news, Liz Truss confirms that there have been additional breaches of the ban to selling arms to the Saudi head choppers. 

[aRdja]

10 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

In other terrorism supporting news, Liz Truss confirms that there have been additional breaches of the ban to selling arms to the Saudi head choppers. 

Not radical at all. 

[polymerpunkah]

Yes, but Iran sold oil to Syria, and Corbyn used to be Khameinei's butler, so it'd be much worse if he were Prime Minister.

 

(A perhaps slightly exaggerated example of the attacks mentioned above.)

[Numero Veinticinco]

6 minutes ago, Brownie said:

Well I respectfully disagree. The character assassination of Corbyn is a result of the threat to the establishment those policies possess.

 

I agree that Labour could have a leader that would decimate the Tories but where we disagree is that I think that leader would need to dilute the policies to achieve it.

I don’t think it’s so much the policies, after all they really aren’t that bad. It’s that he is 1) Labour 2) got links to a lot of stuff that is easily picked up on. Iran TV show, the way he has spoken about Israel, meetings with questionable people, etc. Does that mean he is any of the things they say?! No. But he is an easy target. 
 

Out of interest, what will they say about Starmer’s TV show on Iranian TV? On his meetings with people with links to questionable organisations, etc? 

[Numero Veinticinco]

35 minutes ago, Brownie said:

It’s funny how we’re talking about alleged “extra curricular activities” by Corbyn at a time when the incumbent Prime Minister is openly breaking the law, lying to the Queen, culling dissenters in his party and stoking the fire of Nationalist hate crimes.

 

Corbyn has been framed as a “loose cannon” and ”dangerous” yet the current Prime Minister is actually engaging in all of that and more, whilst being egged-on by those who have the nerve to criticise Corbyn.

 

It’s a combination of scary and hilarious.

TBF, the tiff cunt is getting it from all angles. 

[Chairman Meow]

 

29 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

In other terrorism supporting news, Liz Truss confirms that there have been additional breaches of the ban to selling arms to the Saudi head choppers. 

If you were the cynical type you may be tempted to suspect that they have intended to do so and the previously claimed mistake was intentional.

[magicrat]

2 hours ago, viRdjil said:

Yeah but Blair was right wing enough even The Sun backed him. Of course he was given a free pass by the right wing media.

You know what they seem like halcyon days compared the hatred and division engendered by the Tories and Brexit.

This is more than just battle over the outcome of Brexit it's an existential moment for democratic values , the principles of providing for the weak and poor and the ability to question the integrity of those who exercise power.  I have no doubt which side of the divide Corbyn is on but I fear he doesn't have the mindset or desire to fight fire with fire. His voice will get drowned out by the rabid dogs spouting their vitriol. 

[A Red]

I'm not going to bother with quoting other posters i'll just give my view on Corbyn and Brexit then sit back and take the insults

 

The plan labour have in place dooms them to lose the GE. Forget the bullshit of trusting the people or removing division, the plan has been devised to keep hold of midlands/north leave voting seats. Staying neutral in a general election about the biggest issue in the UK since the war will affect the vote, forget what anyone says about "what does it matter what the party thinks, the mp's will be free to campaign any which way" People will want to know what the party wants, to see leadership.

 

Heres how i breakdown the policy

 

1. Labour stating they will stay neutral over brexit in a GE, because they want to leave it to the people, will not wash with either side of the argument. The remainers will be particularly pissed off, they will want the backing of labour to help sway leavers or the in betweens. The leavers will more likely just vote for who backs leave. The backing of a party matters, of course it does, otherwise there would be no campaigns. Remainers quite rightly will ask of labour, "you backed remain last time, the party is still rammed full of remainers, whats changed? Dont give us bullshit about trusting the people, keep us in Europe!"

 

2. Labour trying to re-negotiate a better deal. Not a hope, its going to be completely half arsed against the EU who know full well that Labour will never back it. It will be a complete and utter waste of time and an insult to the people of this country and the EU. Not one labour remainer will commend it to the country and not one leaver will believe it is a good deal. It cant be because all the people negotiating the deal dont want a deal, they want the UK to remain, the thing is, the leavers will still vote for it.

 

3. Labour considering changing from neutral in the GE to remain or leave for the referendum. This is the real devious yet stupid part of labours plan. Go full leave? No fucking chance. Stay neutral on its own deal? A party that wants to stay in europe having no official opinion on its own deal? It will lose members, credibility and have no influence on the vote. Should the referendum end up with leave, the left will not be forgiven and could end up in the wilderness for years. That leaves remain, what the vast majority of the party want but then, and this is the devious bit, the northern voters who swallowed the neutral line in the GE, are cast adrift, not needed anymore. Its stupid because if you campaign against your own plan, all credibility is gone.

 

Labour should campaign in the general election and referendum to remain and not even bother wasting peoples time trying to negotiate a deal with the EU. It wont do this for 1 reason, it fears losing northern leave seats so it is trying to be devious and play politics, but it is even shit at that.

 

I'll wait for the what about the tories and the mess they caused, their divisions, their cunt of a leader and their lies etc. But it will be the tories that will win the GE and probably leave the EU. , if we havent already done so before an election.

 

 

[Bjornebye]

Still. Not. Getting. It 

[magicrat]

32 minutes ago, A Red said:

I'm not going to bother with quoting other posters i'll just give my view on Corbyn and Brexit then sit back and take the insults

 

The plan labour have in place dooms them to lose the GE. Forget the bullshit of trusting the people or removing division, the plan has been devised to keep hold of midlands/north leave voting seats. Staying neutral in a general election about the biggest issue in the UK since the war will affect the vote, forget what anyone says about "what does it matter what the party thinks, the mp's will be free to campaign any which way" People will want to know what the party wants, to see leadership.

 

Heres how i breakdown the policy

 

1. Labour stating they will stay neutral over brexit in a GE, because they want to leave it to the people, will not wash with either side of the argument. The remainers will be particularly pissed off, they will want the backing of labour to help sway leavers or the in betweens. The leavers will more likely just vote for who backs leave. The backing of a party matters, of course it does, otherwise there would be no campaigns. Remainers quite rightly will ask of labour, "you backed remain last time, the party is still rammed full of remainers, whats changed? Dont give us bullshit about trusting the people, keep us in Europe!"

 

2. Labour trying to re-negotiate a better deal. Not a hope, its going to be completely half arsed against the EU who know full well that Labour will never back it. It will be a complete and utter waste of time and an insult to the people of this country and the EU. Not one labour remainer will commend it to the country and not one leaver will believe it is a good deal. It cant be because all the people negotiating the deal dont want a deal, they want the UK to remain, the thing is, the leavers will still vote for it.

 

3. Labour considering changing from neutral in the GE to remain or leave for the referendum. This is the real devious yet stupid part of labours plan. Go full leave? No fucking chance. Stay neutral on its own deal? A party that wants to stay in europe having no official opinion on its own deal? It will lose members, credibility and have no influence on the vote. Should the referendum end up with leave, the left will not be forgiven and could end up in the wilderness for years. That leaves remain, what the vast majority of the party want but then, and this is the devious bit, the northern voters who swallowed the neutral line in the GE, are cast adrift, not needed anymore. Its stupid because if you campaign against your own plan, all credibility is gone.

 

Labour should campaign in the general election and referendum to remain and not even bother wasting peoples time trying to negotiate a deal with the EU. It wont do this for 1 reason, it fears losing northern leave seats so it is trying to be devious and play politics, but it is even shit at that.

 

I'll wait for the what about the tories and the mess they caused, their divisions, their cunt of a leader and their lies etc. But it will be the tories that will win the GE and probably leave the EU. , if we havent already done so before an election.

 

 

Where I am is that I like Corbyns agenda . His Brighton speech was very good but I see no way it can put into practice unless Brexit is dealt with first . Not just getting an extension that can be reversed by the Tories if they win the GE but

joining together to form a caretaker government to see us through a second referendum with a Maybot type deal or remain . If the price of that is for Corbyn to stand aside and let someone like Clarke see it through then so be it.

Under these circumstances then Labour could win. 

[A Red]

21 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Still. Not. Getting. It 

Read. It. Again. Then. 

 

 

[polymerpunkah]

I realize Corbyn is desperately looking for a new policy advisor, but I think you application needs a little polishing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[A Red]

1 minute ago, magicrat said:

Where I am is that I like Corbyns agenda . His Brighton speech was very good but I see no way it can put into practice unless Brexit is dealt with first . Not just getting an extension that can be reversed by the Tories if they win the GE but

joining together to form a caretaker government to see us through a second referendum with a Maybot type deal or remain . If the price of that is for Corbyn to stand aside and let someone like Clarke see it through then so be it.

Under these circumstances then Labour could win. 

The thing is, like it or not the next GE will be about brexit and will overshadow all the other stuff you may like.

[A Red]

2 minutes ago, polymerpunkah said:

I realize Corbyn is desperately looking for a new policy advisor, but I think you application needs a little polishing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fair comment, its just my view. 

[magicrat]

3 minutes ago, A Red said:

The thing is, like it or not the next GE will be about brexit and will overshadow all the other stuff you may like.

Yes because unwisely it will precede another referendum.  Separation of the two can only happen if we get a caretaker government to take us through Brexit and that largely depends on how flexible Corbyn is willing to be.  I tend to agree with you though but predicting anything these days is a mugs game