Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Jairzinho]

I'm not sure it's possible to separate "the way they go about things" from what they are facing. Perhaps, if there wasn't a coup going on, constant briefings against him in the press, heckles from his own MPs during PMQT, etc, then maybe "the way they go about things" might be a little different.

 

The party is at war, it isn't fair to conclude that this is the way Corbyn's team would want to run things whatever the circumstances.

[Biscao]

 

The party is at war, it isn't fair to conclude that this is the way Corbyn's team would want to run things whatever the circumstances.

 

Yes it is, this is the way the extreme left runs shit once they get the chance.

[Spy Bee]

Yes it is, this is the way the extreme left runs shit once they get the chance.

What a tiresome poster you are.

[Biscao]

Just stating facts. 

[Section_31]

What about the way those that have rejected him go about things? I find that much worse, backstabbing shithouses springs to mind!!

 

I agree, the waters have been muddied seemingly by the fact people just don't know how to sit down and talk through an issue which is killing the party. But I don't agree with the way the opposition to Corbyn is painted as one homogenous, conspiratorial block, it's not, there's a lot of different people from a lot of different backgrounds calling him out. 

[Jairzinho]

What a tiresome poster you are.

 

Can you please stop quoting him. Please.

[Stu Monty]

Yes it is, this is the way the extreme left runs shit once they get the chance.

What is extreme about the current Labour Leadership?

 

You have been asked this on numerous occasions now and run away like an intellectual coward.

 

Answer it or wear your bottler's hat with pride.

[Red Phoenix]

Just stating facts. 

 

The extreme left would include anti-state socialists/libertarian socialists and anarchists. Those groups wouldn't have someone like Corbyn and his team running shit, people would be running their own shit instead. So it couldn't possibly be a fact unless you say parts of the extreme left, not the entire extreme left.

[Neil G]

Bargain bin Hermes. Ignore.

[Stu Monty]

Bargain bin Hermes. Ignore.

Yup, just seen his clown show in the Feminism thread. Empty vessel, or someone having fun pretending to be one.

[VladimirIlyich]

I agree, the waters have been muddied seemingly by the fact people just don't know how to sit down and talk through an issue which is killing the party. But I don't agree with the way the opposition to Corbyn is painted as one homogenous, conspiratorial block, it's not, there's a lot of different people from a lot of different backgrounds calling him out.

I totally agree that not everybody who is against them is a backstabbing,careerist Tory lite but I would like to know if these type of people are against Corbyn because of his policies or are they having some kind of threat hanging over their head by the PLP or the Party's wealthy backers? I bet the moderates who are against Corbyn on principle would rather have a better candidate standing than Owen Smith though.

[Pureblood]

What is extreme about the current Labour Leadership?

 

You have been asked this on numerous occasions now and run away like an intellectual coward.

 

Answer it or wear your bottler's hat with pride.

 

He doesn't do detail, just soundbites.

[Biscao]

What is extreme about the current Labour Leadership?

 

You have been asked this on numerous occasions now and run away like an intellectual coward.

 

Answer it or wear your bottler's hat with pride.

 

U mad bro?

[Pureblood]

That's a corker. 

[Biscao]

That's a corker. 

 

Rafa can fuck off as well.

[Pureblood]

 

 

Rafa can fuck off as well

 

Always with the loony extreme insults.  What you just did there was well loony and totes extreme. 

[Biscao]

What is extreme about the current Labour Leadership?

 

You have been asked this on numerous occasions now and run away like an intellectual coward.

 

Answer it or wear your bottler's hat with pride.

 

To answer your question. The first sign that good ol' Corbs is a fanatic is that he puts principle ahead of results, which clearly shows from his voting record since he managed to get a hold of the only job he ever had, as an MP in the mid 70's. His voting record is in essence merely virtue signalling for the "true" leftists in the UK and he has shown no signs of being willing to compromise to work with the rest of the MPs whenever his sacred views were violated by their compromised policy proposals. 

 

His views include a massive re-nationalisation program which includes railroad and energy but he hasn't really gone into detail about how he will implement it; crucially how to finance it. And he hasn't really explained why it is necessary, apart from the quip 'trains are full'. Yet he lunges back to the 50's and 60's for solutions that isn't really answering the question, an expensive turnaround with no proven results if you like. He seems to forget the arguments for privatising the grand old monopolies in the first place which were that they were extremely expensive monopolies which were highly inefficient in their workings. You may argue that power and gas is too expensive or the train services are not up to speed, but you should also acknowledge that there are far better ways to remedy those issues than to nationalise. You could solve most of the issues through better regulation, but that's not on the program for a man who sees no redeeming features in market solutions. 

 

His foreign policy speaks for itself and he is an almost archetypical leftist who seems to blame most of the problems of the world on the west. When picking up allies he doesn't really care what they stand for, but rather who they hate. If they hate America, Britain or Israel they're allright in his mind, which explains his admiration for such a diverse pack as Venezuela, Bolivia, Russia, Hamas and Hezbollah. He blamed the Crimea-crisis on NATO and was on friendly terms with Sinn Fein while the IRA were blowing up British civilians. He opposed the intervention in Kosovo, the first gulf war and the invasion of Afghanistan. 

 

Add to that his belief in "real democracy" where the MPs are to do what they are being told by their members rather than their constituents (ironic considering his own history of disobedience) and you have a staunch leftist of the old school, taking cue from the Soviets who believed that the party represented the people's will better than the people itself. 

 

The ironic part is that despite Corbyn's purity and tears for the poor and unfortunate a man like Tony Blair did infinitely more for said groups than a virtue signaler like Corbyn ever will because of his ability to compromise to get actual results rather than admiration from fellow sectarians.

[VladimirIlyich]

The looney left just keep asking for really extreme things like investment in the NHS and Education funded in part by the companies and individuals who evade or avoid paying it in the same way the other 95% of the population do,even those cunts on benefits pay is taxable too. They also want ownership of stuff they are paying for anyway despite it being privately owned. Fair competition in the market place? The encouragement for start ups for small and medium sized British businesses(even the Thatcher government used this one) and jobs given to British people to get them off benefits,stimulate the economy through more spending power and payment of taxes.

Absolute fucking loonies,every one of them!

[Spy Bee]

Not sure anyone knows just where to start with that Biscao!

 

This is what I was trying to say yesterday, but put more eloquently:

http://theviewfromthetrellis.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/traingate.html?m=1

 

If you have ever been on a train, you must recognise this scenario!

[Stu Monty]

U mad bro?

Nope. Not at all. The "stop getting angry" angle really is some basic level trolling. It's the calling card of the paper tiger.

[Biscao]

Nope. Not at all. The "stop getting angry" angle really is some basic level trolling. It's the calling card of the paper tiger.

 

Are you sure?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

What a tiresome poster you are.

He's like the marestail in my allotment. Just seems to be sprouting up everywhere, annoyingly getting in the way and serving no purpose whatsoever.

[Denny Crane]

For all those who vote Smith because he is more likely to win this seems to highlight Corbyns approach is more solid.

 

All the graphs and tables are in the article. 

 

This Map Shows Why A Pro-EU Party Might Flop At The Next General Election The country was almost evenly split in the referendum – but that’s not how it would play out in a general election.

 

That’s given rise to lots of people speculating that a party which ran on a “keep us in the EU” ticket in the next general election could have a real shot – whether that’s a current party, a “progressive alliance”, or a whole new pro-EU party.

 

In particular, it’s likely to be a debate the Labour party will have during any leadership contest. But… things aren’t that simple. Things are never that simple. To see how the country’s referendum vote could affect a general election, we’ve translated the referendum results (which in England, Scotland and Wales were counted by council area, not constituency) into results broken down by parliamentary seats. And when you do that, you get a radically different outcome. Instead of a close result, Leave win in a landslide. Although the referendum result was close nationally, Remain piled up many of its votes in a relatively small number of constituencies (London and Scotland being prime examples). As a result, the UK’s first-past-the-post electoral system would produce an extremely skewed result.

 

In our projection, Leave would win 421 seats across the UK, while Remain would win just 229.

 

That’s a majority of 192 for Leave – larger even than Tony Blair’s majority in the 1997 Labour landslide. The message is stark: most prospective MPs at the next election will be standing in constituencies which voted to Leave.

 

Some caveats about how we did this: especially for large council areas that both had very close results and contain lots of constituencies, this won’t be accurate down to the individual constituency level. For some specific constituencies – for example, wealthier pro-Remain constituencies in otherwise anti-EU cities – it might call them wrong. But because data wasn’t consistently collected across Britain about how individual wards within each council voted (although some areas did), we can’t be sure of how voting patterns changed across each council area. This means that, for example, Birmingham’s ten constituencies are all assigned a narrow Leave win, while Leeds’ eight are all narrow Remain. That’s unlikely to be exactly how it would play out in reality – but equally, we believe it balances out when looking at nation-wide patterns.

 

That’s backed up by the fact that political scientist Chris Hanretty conducted a similar exercise using a more complex methodology, and he came out with a very similar result: looking at just English and Welsh constituencies, he predicted that 421 out of the 574 would have voted Leave. (Our count includes Scotland and Northern Ireland as well.) This gives both Labour and the Conservatives problems – but Labour’s troubles are potentially much more severe.

 

On the map above, you can use the tabs at the bottom to switch between the referendum result, and a map of each party’s current seats. It also shows each party’s potential target seats – the marginal constituencies they’ll need to take if they want to win the election. This is what it looks like when you compare the referendum results to Labour’s current seats (dark red) and target seats (light red).

 

You can see that while most of Labour’s seats and targets are in Leave-leaning areas, a significant number are in the big, heavily Remain-voting cities – notably London, Manchester, and Liverpool. If you break down Labour’s current seats, they work out at 150 Leave, 82 Remain – roughly a 65% to 35% split.

 

So what does this mean? It means that if Labour wants to win the next election, the majority of seats it will need to win will be in Leave-voting areas – often quite strongly Leave-leaning. Obviously people vote on many issues in a general election, not just one. But it does suggest that a Labour party with a manifesto commitment to reversing Brexit might have a stuggle winning these vital seats. That’s especially true if a snap election is called in the next six months or so – before any likely economic effects of Brexit on jobs, housing and the cost of living have really kicked in.

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisapplegate/why-a-pro-eu-party-could-be-screwed-in-the-next-election?utm_term=.ofZ45olAX#.mnxQNDvJm

[Boss]

Haha the hard left. I'd love to see the chap and biscao living in Cambodia in the 1970's if they think Corbyn is a left wing extremist. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Haha the hard left. I'd love to see the chap and biscao living in Cambodia in the 1970's

.