Labour Leadership Contest

[Mad Erik]

Best of luck to him, genuinely. It appears that at the very least he has some laudable principes.

 

IMHO, however, he'll do well to do anything other than take Labour to the electoral margins.

[Longview1982]

Sure. And that's a tragedy for England which will go into the next election without a serious alternative to the maniacs ruling currently.

 

 

You got it all figured out, haven't you? Now figure out how to avoid another decade with Cameron. But hey, that doesn't matter, because Corbyn is going to "tell it like it is" to those bigwigs in the papers while another 30000 families are being evicted from public housing on Cameron's road to reelection.

 

Thick cunt.

 

 

This.

 

I fear we have just become unelectable IF reports of renationalisation, pulling out of NATO and cosying up to putin etc become policy. For every one voter who likes these, we'll lose 5 or 6 or more who dont.

 

People havent voted tory at the last election nor any other because the party wasnt pushing left enough policies (and I only use that term to differentiate from 'centerist or 'right' policies).

 

 

There's an alternative alright. We can now only wait and see how it pans out. At least a decade of Tory rule is my guess.

 

These posts simply ignore the facts about the numbers who voted at the General Election.

 

The Conservatives only had 36% of votes cast and only have 51% of MP's.

 

There was no overwhelming mandate for their policies at the last election. It was really close to being a hung parliament requiring some form of coalition.

 

There are 5 million votes and 65 seats held by the SNP, Lib-Dems and Green Party that a centre/left Labour Party would be looking to attract.

 

Then there are the 4 million UKIP votes to be won.

 

Those saying that this result consigns Labour to the election dustbin for a generation are simply parroting what they've read and heard from those with a vested interest in maintaining the centre/right consensus.

 

I'm in my forties and I've never seen such a concerted effort from the media, the Conservatives and Centre/Right Labour to warn people against electing an individual as party leader. It's unprecedented. 

 

When these same people and media outlets are constantly repeating the same message that he's unelectable and that no-one will vote for him, then you have to ask the question: "If he's unelectable, then why are you all colluding to spend so much time and effort in a desperate attempt to dissuade people from voting for him?"

 

It's simple: it isn't about Corbyn at all. It's about centre/right parties and politicians orchestrating a campaign to wipe out any presence of a centre/left voting option in mainstream elections. It's about preserving the current lockdown of power in Westminster within a narrow elite of identikit politicians within Conservative and Labour who view any populist centre/left alternative as a threat to the status quo that allows them to spend their time in Parliament representing corporate interests and then taking up lucrative consultancies and executive positions within those corporations when they leave front bench politics.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Energy generation isn't really a natural monopoly. It's one of the markets actually doing what it's supposed to, while TSOs are natural monopolies. 

 

The central European railway system is largely liberalised, while the rails are as you say natural monopolies. That the most efficient companies win out to use the rails makes a lot of sense to me. 

 

The silly representation of his foreign policy is straight out of the bastion of Tory policy known as The Guardian. Please enlighten my silly little brain about his real views on foreign policy. He certainly haven't been able to trick anyone else to write about it correctly it seems.

The barriers to entry of energy generation make it a cartel, with no real competition.  More importantly, nationalisation would make it easier to introduce a more sensible, more sustainable approach to energy.

 

The most efficient train operating companies don't necessarily win.  The ones that are best at winning contracts win.  Not only have fare increases consistently outstripped to the rate of inflation, but the cost to the taxpayers is also far greater than under British Rail; a like-for-like comparison a few years ago calculated that each passenger mile on our privatised railways cost the public purse 3 times as much as it used to when railways were nationalised.

 

If you want a rebuttal of the puerile fixation with his use of the word "friends" have a look at Corbyn's interview with Krishnan Guru-Murthy.  Similarly misleading is the suggestion that there's something suspect about supporting the progressive and democratic Governments of Cuba and Venezuela, both of which have been subject to anti-democratic attacks from the supposed champion of the Free World.  As for NATO, instead of just deriding anybody who wants the UK to leave it, why not take a moment to question why the UK should be a member of this violent and anachronistic Cold War throwback?  You might also want to look into the history - and the repercussions of NATO's eastward expansion.

[kalasoma]

I'll actually watch PMQs now. Possibly that Questiontime too. Although I dislike David Dimbleby.

[Neil G]

I agree with him that austerity is completely wrong in the current situation. I wholeheartedly disagree with nationalising big parts of the British economy.

He's not nationalising big parts of the economy. He's pledged to nationalise two sectors, rail and energy. Public ownership of the railways is supported by a majority of the electorate, and was the long-standing policy of that bastion of radical leftism Germany until recently, when it was opened up to private competition by pressure from the EU rather than a change in government policy.

 

Other than renationalising the energy companies, which will probably fall foul of EU competition law anyway and so won't be in the manifesto, what are the other far left economic policies that will be electoral poison?

[VladimirIlyich]

I agree with him that austerity is completely wrong in the current situation. I wholeheartedly disagree with nationalising big parts of the British economy.

 

When you look at where he stands in foreign policy it's on par with complete mad men, speaking of friends in Hamas and Hezbollah, praising Venezuela and Cuba while putting most of the blame for Crimea on NATO - which he wants to ditch off course.

He participated in the Middle East peace talks and Hamas and Hezbollah have to be part of this or else there cannot be any peace. Like trying to complete a jigsaw with pieces missing is what talks would be without them.

Venezuela has done wonders with social housing,illiteracy rates and infant mortality too. Better than the USA,or close to,at least. Cuba trains some of the finest doctors on the planet and has also done wonders while being blockaded for petty reasons by the US.

Not sure what your problem is with this. Without dialogue,nothing worthwhile can be achieved.

[Longview1982]

The barriers to entry of energy generation make it a cartel, with no real competition.  More importantly, nationalisation would make it easier to introduce a more sensible, more sustainable approach to energy.

 

6 large companies owning 98% of the domestic market and receiving direct government subsidy is, according to Biscao, "the market actually doing what it's supposed to".

 

When you consider just how large the government subsidy is on our "privatised" rail industry is, I don't think Biscao understands how neither of those "markets" are actually markets in any conventional definition of the term or how close those industries are to being publicly owned already.   

[Longview1982]

He participated in the Middle East peace talks and Hamas and Hezbollah have to be part of this or else there cannot be any peace. Like trying to complete a jigsaw with pieces missing is what talks would be without them.

 

 

It's almost as though Biscao doesn't remember the massive compromises a Labour government had to make in order to achieve the Good Friday agreement. 

[Jairzinho]

[Red Phoenix]

“We have to frame him fast, before he can define himself,” one cabinet member told me last week. The Tories, this minister said, had to move fast to destroy Corbyn and to colonise the vast centre ground that he would surely vacate.

 

From Matthew d'Ancona's ramblings here : http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/12/jeremy-corbyn-victory-guardian-panellists-verdict

 

Predictable and sad. Is it people like this that Biscao prefers, maybe?

[Jairzinho]

“We have to frame him fast, before he can define himself,” one cabinet member told me last week. The Tories, this minister said, had to move fast to destroy Corbyn and to colonise the vast centre ground that he would surely vacate.

 

From Matthew d'Ancona's ramblings here : http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/12/jeremy-corbyn-victory-guardian-panellists-verdict

 

Predictable and sad. Is it people like this that Biscao prefers, maybe?

 

So left wing those Guardian journalists.

[Red Phoenix]

So left wing those Guardian journalists.

 

The comment he made after it was retarded too : "My instinct was that of the Zen master." Yeah, I'll fucking bet it was Matthew, OK.

[Longview1982]

“We have to frame him fast, before he can define himself,” one cabinet member told me last week. The Tories, this minister said, had to move fast to destroy Corbyn and to colonise the vast centre ground that he would surely vacate.

 

From Matthew d'Ancona's ramblings here : http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/12/jeremy-corbyn-victory-guardian-panellists-verdict

 

Predictable and sad. Is it people like this that Biscao prefers, maybe?

 

It does illustrate the fear Corbyn's centre/left populism has created. The Conservatives felt no need to go after any of the other candidates. That in itself is a telling comment on the leadership election.

 

In the article you linked, Tom Clark's contribution is really good, in my view. Everyone within the party has to show the humility he speaks of. To be fair to Cameron, getting the party to show the same humility in admitting their own hubris and mistakes was the big achievement of his Conservative leadership.

[Red Phoenix]

 

In the article you linked, Tom Clark's contribution is really good, in my view. Everyone within the party has to show the humility he speaks of. To be fair to Cameron, getting the party to show the same humility in admitting their own hubris and mistakes was the big achievement of his Conservative leadership.

 

Also thought his piece seemed more honest. The bit about journalists showing humility as well just above the part you mentioned would also be a great idea if at least some of them could actually manage it.

[Red Phoenix]

A bit more of a harsh (but what I'd also consider fair) response to Tom Clark in the comments section, even if it is better aimed at many other journos :

 

"That's the main thing, isnt it? You never see anything coming. You didn't see the 2008 crash coming, though the evidence was there. You didn't see the rise and fall of Ukip. You haven't heard the subterranean rumble that presaged Corbyn. You seem to think the world is an extension of your Oxbridge tutorials. It isn't."

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/12/jeremy-corbyn-victory-guardian-panellists-verdict#comment-59305247

[Guest Pistonbroke]

You got it all figured out, haven't you? Now figure out how to avoid another decade with Cameron. But hey, that doesn't matter, because Corbyn is going to "tell it like it is" to those bigwigs in the papers while another 30000 families are being evicted from public housing on Cameron's road to reelection.

 

Thick cunt.

 

Cameron is standing down after this term, mind you, he may well be shot or arrested before he has the chance to stand down. 

[Longview1982]

A bit more of a harsh (but what I'd also consider fair) response to Tom Clark in the comments section, even if it is better aimed at many other journos :

 

"That's the main thing, isnt it? You never see anything coming. You didn't see the 2008 crash coming, though the evidence was there. You didn't see the rise and fall of Ukip. You haven't heard the subterranean rumble that presaged Corbyn. You seem to think the world is an extension of your Oxbridge tutorials. It isn't."

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/12/jeremy-corbyn-victory-guardian-panellists-verdict#comment-59305247

 

It's a fair point, although Clark does acknowledge his own failing in this respect:

 

"......Spending too much time, perhaps, talking to professional politicians and to each other......"

 

There are too many members of the public who lazily buy into the narrative presented to them by Westminster politicians and media despite it's obviously incestuous and self-serving nature simply because it's the only game in town.

 

If that sounds patronizing then so be it - there are far too many people in this country who are happy to see millions of others fucked up the arse by any type of government and any number of global corporations as long as their tiny little part of Britain contains a house, a car and a job.

[Red Phoenix]

It's a fair point, although Clark does acknowledge his own failing in this respect:

 

"......Spending too much time, perhaps, talking to professional politicians and to each other......"

 

 

Yeah it was good to see one of them at least bring that up. I guess some of them are going to have to though with them having damaged their reputation so much recently.

 

Glad Corbyn got straight through anyway, watched his speech earlier and was also glad that Tom Watson made it as deputy. It's a huge change, and those thinking that this simply makes them "unelectable" might have a few surprises as time passes. One key there could be several millions in the population that didn't vote last time or that haven't in quite a while, but that could do next time around. That could be where a big surprise comes from in the next election if they can build on this properly, especially if they also attract a fair amount from other parties, like the Lib Dems and Ukip, for instance.

 

Parliament's site says : Between 1922 and 1997 turnout remained above 71%. At the 2001 general election the turnout was 59.4%; in 2005 it was 61.4%; in 2010 it was 65.1%; and in 2015 it was 66.1%.

 

http://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/electionsvoting/chartists/contemporarycontext/electionturnout/

 

So if that can swing back towards 70%+ with Labour getting most of those voters, then that could easily be enough. Looking at what Corbyn has done recently though, if he can continue to do things well enough that percentage could go a fair bit higher than 71% as well.

 

I still have an almost default mistrust of politicians after all of the frauds we've endured, but this is clearly a lot better than anything I've ever known before (Thatcher arrived in power the year I was born.) So am hoping Corbyn and Watson can at least stick to what they currently believe in and not get too worn down by whatever they have to face from here on out. I'm not expecting miracles, but I definitely do want to see them at least put up a good fight, and inspire others in the process.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I agree with him that austerity is completely wrong in the current situation. I wholeheartedly disagree with nationalising big parts of the British economy.

 

When you look at where he stands in foreign policy it's on par with complete mad men, speaking of friends in Hamas and Hezbollah, praising Venezuela and Cuba while putting most of the blame for Crimea on NATO - which he wants to ditch off course.

What an absolute load of wank.

[Biscao]

I'm not going to spend my morning replying to slurs or writing political essays for people who believe Cuba is a great country.

 

Best of luck to you all. Some of you have a rough decade ahead of you.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

You got it all figured out, haven't you? Now figure out how to avoid another decade with Cameron. But hey, that doesn't matter, because Corbyn is going to "tell it like it is" to those bigwigs in the papers while another 30000 families are being evicted from public housing on Cameron's road to reelection.

 

Thick cunt.

Cameron won't be here for another decade. He's stepping down by the next GE.

[VladimirIlyich]

I'm not going to spend my morning replying to slurs or writing political essays for people who believe Cuba is a great country.

 

Best of luck to you all. Some of you have a rough decade ahead of you.

Who said it was a great country?

Its done great things despite attempts to starve it into oblivion by the US and its allies,and those same countries who tried to starve it are reaping the benefit of some of those skills.

Before Castro took over the Yanks thought it was a great country.

Not sure what the fuck brought Cuba into this debate,but considering the US has recently taken it off its 'threat' list and millions of Americans and Brits visit it each year I suppose its worth mentioning.

[Bobby Hundreds]

A rough decade ahead. We've got 5 years of that decade regardless. The next 5 after is the choice between two party's with the minimal of difference between them or attempt something different.

 

A lot can happen in these next 5 years not just domestically but globally. In the meantime an opposition to the Tories can be formed not just through grassroots labour but forming loose coalitions with other party's to oppose Tory plans. It might fail but the system itself is failing people anyway. Why jump immediately to the doom and gloom of a corbyn led labour. I'm going to embrace change and slowly but surely let the bastards grind me down.

[Neil G]

I'm not going to spend my morning replying to slurs or writing political essays for people who believe Cuba is a great country.

 

Best of luck to you all. Some of you have a rough decade ahead of you.

Could you at least spare a minute or two to reply to my question about what these supposedly far left economic policies of Corbyn's are? No essay needed, a few lines will do.

[Jairzinho]

Who said it was a great country?

Its done great things despite attempts to starve it into oblivion by the US and its allies,and those same countries who tried to starve it are reaping the benefit of some of those skills.

Before Castro took over the Yanks thought it was a great country.

Not sure what the fuck brought Cuba into this debate,but considering the US has recently taken it off its 'threat' list and millions of Americans and Brits visit it each year I suppose its worth mentioning.

 

It doesn't even really matter what anyone's views are on Cuba or Venezuela, or Greece for that matter. They are the examples constantly trotted out by people that insist that Corbyn's campaign has been one of a mad loony leftie, extreme, radical Stalinist nature. The comparisons are made by those fiercely attempting to protect neo liberalism (mainstream media, bankers, most of parliament) or repeated by idiots that can't see why they're saying it. I think what Corbyn should have done more, which is something Sanders has done a lot in America, is point out that actually what he wants for the country is something more like the social democracies we've seen in Scandinavia. Perhaps point out that comparing wealthy Northern European countries is possibly a little more relevant comparing us to Cuba.