Scottish Independence, yay or nay?

[VladimirIlyich]

I would point out that as a Scottish person, I'm voting Yes next month, not because I have a problem with England or its people or because I have a problem with Scotland being part of the Union but because I fucking hate tories, they make my skin crawl & I've had to spend most of my life living under their stewardship when they often struggle to get a single MP in Scotland.

 

I realise that most politicians are as bad as each other but this is a great chance to get rid of this lot for a long time up here. If it involves a bit of hardship in the short term then so be it...

You selfish bastard, dont you dare!

If you get a Yes vote then you will be flooded with immigrants from the North of England like me.

If all else fails we will dismantle and rebuild Hadrian's Wall about 250 miles further South.

[Mook]

You selfish bastard, dont you dare!

If you get a Yes vote then you will be flooded with immigrants from the North of England like me.

If all else fails we will dismantle and rebuild Hadrian's Wall about 250 miles further South.

I'm more than happy with either. Cut the south east off like a diseased foot.

[Anny Road]

There is so much that has not been discussed.

As an English person living in Scotland who has a vote in the referendum I would like to know loads of things.

What happens to my UK passport after independence? Will I need to apply for a Scottish one.? (I'm not Scottish) or an English one, which does not exist and means I will be a different nationality from my kids.

What happens to my driving licence issued by the DVLA. Scotland has no DVLA to issue me a new one.

I have some investments paid into an English bank which transfer the dividend to me free up in Scotland. How will that work?

A close relative of mine lives up here after retiring from the council in England his pension is paid to him up here. Will that continue.

We do not even know what the currency will be let alone if we will be in the EU, Nato the commomwealth.

It is a mess.

[mgw100]

Anny Road - the reason stuff like this has not been discussed is because, in the event of a Yes vote, the details of the new Independent Scotland will be thrashed out in a negotiation between representatives of Scotland and Whitehall. This will principally agree the share of the Union's assets and liabilities that will be given to Scotland but also a lot of the procedural type stuff you mention. The currency debate won't be finalised until this point

 

It's an unfortunate scenario because it adds more uncertainty, though I'm not sure how else it can be done. It would be too hard to agree it all in advance, in anticipation of a Yes vote.

[Champ]

There is so much that has not been discussed.

As an English person living in Scotland who has a vote in the referendum I would like to know loads of things.

What happens to my UK passport after independence? Will I need to apply for a Scottish one.? (I'm not Scottish) or an English one, which does not exist and means I will be a different nationality from my kids.

What happens to my driving licence issued by the DVLA. Scotland has no DVLA to issue me a new one.

I have some investments paid into an English bank which transfer the dividend to me free up in Scotland. How will that work?

A close relative of mine lives up here after retiring from the council in England his pension is paid to him up here. Will that continue.

We do not even know what the currency will be let alone if we will be in the EU, Nato the commomwealth.

It is a mess.

What would the rest of the UK's passport be called. Cant think of the language to describe it.

Would Great Britain exist in the event of a Yes vote?

[Anny Road]

What would the rest of the UK's passport be called. Cant think of the language to describe it.

Would Great Britain exist in the event of a Yes vote?

 

Anny Road - the reason stuff like this has not been discussed is because, in the event of a Yes vote, the details of the new Independent Scotland will be thrashed out in a negotiation between representatives of Scotland and Whitehall. This will principally agree the share of the Union's assets and liabilities that will be given to Scotland but also a lot of the procedural type stuff you mention. The currency debate won't be finalised until this point

 

It's an unfortunate scenario because it adds more uncertainty, though I'm not sure how else it can be done. It would be too hard to agree it all in advance, in anticipation of a Yes vote.

That is the problem though we do not know do we.

 

It is one thing disliking the English and being pissed of with them. It is totally another thing setting yourself up in competition against them. The rest of the UK will do whatever they can to put Scotland in an economic disadvantage.

[Mook]

That is the problem though we do not know do we.

 

It is one thing disliking the English and being pissed of with them. It is totally another thing setting yourself up in competition against them. The rest of the UK will do whatever they can to put Scotland in an economic disadvantage.

Scottish Independence should have nothing at all to do with 'disliking the English'. The two countries could still work together in many ways in the event of a Yes vote.

[Anny Road]

Scottish Independence should have nothing at all to do with 'disliking the English'. The two countries could still work together in many ways in the event of a Yes vote.

I agree but it has a lot to do with this. A large section of Yes voters are voting with their heart not their head.

[Mook]

I agree but it has a lot to do with this. A large section of Yes voters are voting with their heart not their head.

People who are voting Yes because they don't like England are twats.

[Anny Road]

People who are voting Yes because they don't like England are twats.

Yes but there are a fair few of them. I can to a certain extent understand it. As I say to these people the north of England feels pretty much the same but we have no border to draw.

[Anny Road]

Will the Union Flag have to have the blue taken out of it?

[Anny Road]

The perfect storm will be if Scotland votes for independence joins the EU and England vote to leave in a referendum. They would have to rebuild hadrians wall to keep the eastern Europeans out. Gretna would have camps like Calais

[Mook]

Will the Union Flag have to have the blue taken out of it?

I would imagine so. All these things will be thrashed out over a period of time following an unlikely Yes vote.

[Champ]

I agree but it has a lot to do with this. A large section of Yes voters are voting with their heart not their head.

My 'head' is telling me there are so/too many unknowns, although I know that of course it can only be that way because how can it be predicted how other parties, ie the finanicial markets, the rest of the UK, the EU, the list is endless, will react, to be able to make a rational decision but there is such a draw in having that chance to try to do something different, something fairer, something more akin to all of my own values.

I have never felt so torn or such a sense of responsibility in casting a vote as I am having with this

[Rush 346]

Zero chance of a Yes majority

[Anny Road]

I would imagine so. All these things will be thrashed out over a period of time following an unlikely Yes vote.

I'd rather know what we were getting into before chucking my hat in.

If you asked me the simple question would you like Scotland to be independent I would say yes.

But I would like to know what the specific consequences of that decision would be before I sign up.

There are to many things where people like yourself say we will worry about that after just sign up

[Paisley Red]

My 'head' is telling me there are so/too many unknowns, although I know that of course it can only be that way because how can it be predicted how other parties, ie the finanicial

markets, the rest of the UK, the EU, the list is endless, will react, to be able to make a rational decision but there is such a draw in having that chance to try to do something different,something fairer, something more akin to all of my own values. I have never felt so torn or such a sense of responsibility in casting a vote as I am having with this

The Westminster parties have no interest whatsoever in delivering a fairer society. I felt the same way as you for ages but ultimately decided to choose hope over fear. When the Tories, Labour, Lib Dems, Orange Order, BNP, Daily Mail, Sun, UKIP, Barack Obama, Cliff Richard and Lulu are all on one side of a debate it's usually pretty safe to assume they're not a force for good.

[chrisbonnie]

That is the problem though we do not know do we.

 

It is one thing disliking the English and being pissed of with them. It is totally another thing setting yourself up in competition against them. The rest of the UK will do whatever they can to put Scotland in an economic disadvantage.

That's completely inaccurate.

 

Ireland and England where absolute sworn enemies for hundreds of years. We eventually got our independence yet England still held into a small part of our country, "just for shits and giggles".

 

Yet still Britain's trade to Ireland is worth more to it than its trade to Brazil, India and China. So to think England would just cut all ties with Scotland is just rubbish. It wouldn't happen.

 

I'm not saying the Scots should vote one way or another. Frankly I don't care that much, but to think england would alienate them for doing so, is just pure bollox.

[Anny Road]

That's completely inaccurate.

 

Ireland and England where absolute sworn enemies for hundreds of years. We eventually got our independence yet England still held into a small part of our country, "just for shits and giggles".

 

Yet still Britain's trade to Ireland is worth more to it than its trade to Brazil, India and China. So to think England would just cut all ties with Scotland is just rubbish. It wouldn't happen.

 

I'm not saying the Scots should vote one way or another. Frankly I don't care that much, but to think england would alienate them for doing so, is just pure bollox.

I wouldn't for one minute suggest that England will alienate Scotland or cut ties. They couldn't we are too integrated. I can see problems arising in business however when Scotland lowers is business rates to encourage firms to locate North of the border as they will and as Ireland did.

This would not be is terms of conflict but in pure business competition. If Scotland starts to effect the ecomomy of England the regions who loose out will be determined to lobby for policies to protect them.

Depending upon EU membership a lot of Scottish exports could be subject to the whim of the Uk tax system.

[mattyq]

What would the rest of the UK's passport be called. Cant think of the language to describe it.

Would Great Britain exist in the event of a Yes vote?

Great Britain is a geographical entity and will still exist even if the Nats win

I reckon the UKs passport would still be called the UK as it would still contain several kingdoms

I hate Nationalism - it's the most pernicious and evil cause, after religion and is responsible for murder and destruction since the year dot

Less borders not more...all of this seems very 20th century and behind the times

[Sugar Ape]

Just an aside to the debate - All those saying about living under Labour/Tory rule, if Scotland becomes independant would people born there still be eligible to be a minister in a political party in the rest of the UK?

 

The last labour government had Scots running it and causing problems just as much as politicians from countries in the rest of the UK. Yes, I'm looking at you Blair, Brown and Darling!

[Champ]

Great Britain is a geographical entity and will still exist even if the Nats win

I reckon the UKs passport would still be called the UK as it would still contain several kingdoms

I hate Nationalism - it's the most pernicious and evil cause, after religion and is responsible for murder and destruction since the year dot

Less borders not more...all of this seems very 20th century and behind the times

 

I know how much you hate it and I dont disagree with a lot of what you say. I also find it difficult to reconcile the ideas of gaining independence from the rest of the UK while actively seeking to remain a part of a centralising Europe.

Having said that, I do believe that as a collective group the values of Scots, historically and currently are more egalitarian and inclusive and for the chance to be able to translate that into a fairer society for all of its people I am right behind that

[aws]

Great Britain is a geographical entity and will still exist even if the Nats win

I reckon the UKs passport would still be called the UK as it would still contain several kingdoms

I hate Nationalism - it's the most pernicious and evil cause, after religion and is responsible for murder and destruction since the year dot

Less borders not more...all of this seems very 20th century and behind the times

You're confusing nationalism which seeks to oppress and control other people with nationalism which seeks freedom from the oppression and control of others. You think the Bosnians should have stayed under Serbian control?

[Anny Road]

Not slagging anyone but this is what the debate comes to when nationalism is mentioned.  Nationalism

I fully blame the English for the erosion of Scottish national identity. But I blame the Scots for establishing a culture out of it and making being anti English part of there own national identity (which it is debate or not)

I can totally understand it and if roles had been reversed the same probably would have happened except the other way around.

Noone is better than anyone else.

 

One example I always bring up is that apparently the Tartan Army who follow a certain sport are the best in the world. I argue it is only because England were the worst. If England was the best Scotland would endeavour to be the worst.

Quite right too.

It is what makes us the Island we are.

 

Independence won't change all that but it will mean we have different objectives and priorities which may not be compatible especially when you consider that Scotland only has 2/3rds of the population of London.

[mattyq]

You're confusing nationalism which seeks to oppress and control other people with nationalism which seeks freedom from the oppression and control of others. You think the Bosnians should have stayed under Serbian control?

Not a great example as Bosnia was never under Serbian control. They were both states of the former Yugoslavia etc but i take your point, mate.

You're saying that there is a good Nationalism and a bad Nationalism and possibly you're right. I just think they are 2 sides of the same coin and both are present in a Nationalist cause

I don't think most normal people would ever accuse the Scots or Scotland as being oppressed and subjugated by the UK