Treachery beyond compare?

[Hermes]

If Gerrard goes, and until he says publicly he's going then we are still speculating, will this be the greatest act of treachery in football history?

 

I was trying to think of a worse situation. In recent time we've seen Barmby tell Evertonians he wants to play for Liverpool. But he was going to his boyhood club, a better team.

 

Alan Smith signed for the Mancs. He left a relegated team to go to a team capable of winning trophies and he had to leave for somewhere anyway.

 

Sol Campbell left for money and better prospects.

 

With Gerrard apart from a pay increase there is no logic to this potential move. He's going to a club that has potential only, they spent £120m last season and won nothing.He's captain of the team he supported as a boy, he's a scouser, we don't need to sell him. We have a new manager, a potential windfall of £60m for team building.

 

If he goes I want to hear the reasons.

[kop]

Why is it, that everyone on here seems to take it for granted that Chelsea won't win anything. Why shouldn't "I wanna go to Chelsea to win things" be an argument for Gerrard? IMO there is nothing that tells us that Liverpool will win things, and Chelsea won't (for the next couple of years).

 

I think Chelsea made huge progress last season, finishing some 20 points ahead of Liverpool, and qualifying for the semi finals of CL. This year they have hired one of the most wanted manager in europe, they have already bought quality players (Robben, Chech, Ferreira) and are ready to spend silly money on the likes of Gerrard, Rooney and others.

 

I really hope Gerrard stays. I would be gutted if he went to Chelsea (no other club can afford him). But to say that going to Chelsea to win things is not an argument, that is just wrong.

 

In other words, there is some logic to his potential move (apart form £130.000 a week).

 

Get real.

[Steve]

Nick Barmby's 'Liverpool' quote came from Walter Smith, Barmby himself never said it directly and handled the whole thing with dignity. It was the blueshite who stirred it up.

 

Smith didnt ask for a move, he was told he'd be sold so thought fuck you, I'll sign for the club with the best prospects. His alternatives were Everton and Birmingham.

 

Campbell did have some nerve though, running down his contract then going to Arsenal on a Bosman.

 

I'd see some logic in Gerrard going to Chelsea,if the first season under Benitez failed. But at the end of the season he was looking forward to rectifying the wrongs of 2003-4 in 2004-5. What has changed so much in 4-5 weeks, as Chelsea have been interested for several months? Why did he sign a 4 year contract when we were struggling to finish 5th, then encourage Owen to do the same? Did he seriously think Houllier would win us the Premiership and Champions League? There can only be 2 reasons why he wants to go, the money and the fact he's pissed off that Parry went for Benitez instead of his first choice of Curbishley.

[aws]

Money making tip for Dave - when Chelsea come to Anfield leave the mag at home and set up a stall selling pig's heads.

Hermes - I am struggling to think of a similar situation.Maybe Campbell comes close but it was obvious what was happening with him.When you consider the way we have bent over backwards to keep SG happy over the last 12 months,I don't think any player could have delivered a bigger kick in the teeth to the club he is supposed to love.But if he wants to go,fine.

[MLB]

Why is it, that everyone on here seems to take it for granted that Chelsea won't win anything. Why shouldn't "I wanna go to Chelsea to win things" be an argument for Gerrard? IMO there is nothing that tells us that Liverpool will win things, and Chelsea won't (for the next couple of years).

 

I think Chelsea made huge progress last season, finishing some 20 points ahead of Liverpool, and qualifying for the semi finals of CL. This year they have hired one of the most wanted manager in europe, they have already bought quality players (Robben, Chech, Ferreira) and are ready to spend silly money on the likes of Gerrard, Rooney and others.

 

I really hope Gerrard stays. I would be gutted if he went to Chelsea (no other club can afford him). But to say that going to Chelsea to win things is not an argument, that is just wrong.

 

In other words, there is some logic to his potential move (apart form £130.000 a week).

 

Get real.

 

 

 

I think Hermes made the point quite well. Chelsea spent £120 million last year and won exactly FUCK ALL. Real Madrid likewise have spent fortunes and, last season at least, won fuck all.

 

So, of course there's a chance Chelsea will win things, but considering that we will also have plenty of money to spend and a manager with a real winning pedigree they don't have much more of a chance than us, based on the historical record.

[Uncle Travelling Matt]

I agree with MLB and Hermes, Chelsea have spent loadsa dough and have a good chance of winning trophies next season but in my eyes, they have no more of a chance than we have. If we'd have played a better style of football last season, I firmly believe we'd have been alot closer to the top 3 than we ended up, given the new managers arrival, the incoming Cisse plus whoever else, next season is exciting the fans and I'm sure most of the players. It makes NO sense that Steven would choose this time to leave, no sense at all.....except the reported offer of £120k a week!!!

He would be leaving Liverpool for Chelsea, he is our best player and that alone makes a massive statement, if we were Leeds, it'd be understandable, if they were Arsenal, I'd respect his decision, but Liverpool to fuckin Chelsea......its a disgrace and I'll personally tell him so if I ever see him in China Whites with all the other mercenary cunts!

[kop]

I just don't see the logic in them not gonna win, because they didn't win last season. They spend alot of money, but they also made huge progress. Why shouldn't it continue this season? And for the Real Madrid-comment, they have arguable been the best team in europe for the last 10 years, but didn't win anything last season. So, they are not gonna win anything next season either? I just don't understand the argumentation.

 

If you ask outsiders with footballknowledge, who is gonna win more the next 10 seasons, Liverpool or Chelsea, I think for the moment most of them would say Chelsea.

[cochcaer]

Andy Cole leaving Newcastle is the last massive furore I recall but Gerrard pisses all over that.

[Beni]

Because he is home grown and the captain of our club it is 100 times worse than anything I have witnessed.

 

Consider Maldini in his pomp leaving Milan for juventus or Raul to Barcelona.

 

When Figo left Barca for Real, Barca fans displayed a banner proclaiming we hate you so much because we loved you so much.

 

Such a message wouldn't go amiss next season should he leave. Maybe we can find a couple of pigs heads as well.

[Uncle Travelling Matt]

I just don't see the logic in them not gonna win, because they didn't win last season. They spend alot of money, but they also made huge progress. Why shouldn't it continue this season? And for the Real Madrid-comment, they have arguable been the best team in europe for the last 10 years, but didn't win anything last season. So, they are not gonna win anything next season either? I just don't understand the argumentation.

 

If you ask outsiders with footballknowledge, who is gonna win more the next 10 seasons, Liverpool or Chelsea, I think for the moment most of them would say Chelsea.

 

I don't think anyone is saying they are NOT gonna win anything, I think the point is that potentially we feel that we are as likely to win trophies over the next 5 years as they are. I'd say Arsenal are more likely, and I'd like to say Utd were less likely but I've been saying that for about 5 years....

You are possibly right that neutrals would say Chelsea are more likely to be successful over the next 10 years but in reality, nobody knows how long Abramovich will stick around, if he leaves they are f*cked, nor does anyone know how much of an impact Rafa will have, as a Liverpool fan though (and Steven is supposed to be that) we should firmly believe that it is Liverpool that will be more successful over the next 10 years.

[SharQ]

Treachery beyond compare?

 

My friends, I can see that you are gutted to see Gerrard go, but it's only a fucking game. I can list a dozen far more serious cases of treachery, most of which have lead to the deaths of hundreds, or even thousands of people.

 

Perspective must be attained.

 

h

[Uncle Travelling Matt]

Treachery beyond compare?

 

My friends, I can see that you are gutted to see Gerrard go, but it's only a fucking game. I can list a dozen far more serious cases of treachery, most of which have lead to the deaths of hundreds, or even thousands of people.

 

Perspective must be attained.

 

h

 

Hermes was obviously talking in terms of Football transfers.......

[andym1954]

This year they have hired one of the most wanted manager in europe, they have already bought quality players (Robben, Chech, Ferreira) and are ready to spend silly money on the likes of Gerrard, Rooney and others.

 

I dont see how the three players they have bought already improve their team. They already have IMHO the best keeper in the Premiership in Cudicini.

 

Robben is unproven in the Premiership so who knows if he will be any better than an injury free Duff. And Ferreira - is he not the guy who gifted Greece their first goal and hasn't played since ? Glen Johnson is likely to be a pretty good full back anyway.

 

They might have silly money to spend but look at the players who have already turned them down - Ronaldo (the Real one), Beckham Roberto Carlos, Mexes etc

[Tom R]

I've already said it once and I'll say it again.

We have MORE chance of winning anything than Chelsea. Purely for the reason that players only play for Chelsea for the money and the fact that they are in London. THERE IS NO OTHER MOTIVE.

They have no history of succes, they have no geritage, they have - in short - nothing but cash.

Name me one player who has ever said "I really want to play for the shirt of Chelsea" apart from the odd local lad coming through. There isn't a single one.

This summer, with the investment and the money we will get for Gerrard and the Champions League we will be able to potentially match what Chelsea spent last year... only (hopefully) the players that we sign will hopefully WANT to play for us s they may even have turned Chelsea down.

 

It's a HUGE difference between us and them and probably the most important thing you can have in a team.

In fact, it's what MAKES a team. Without that spirit you are nothing but Chelsea FC and you'll never be anything more.

[kop]

This year they have hired one of the most wanted manager in europe, they have already bought quality players (Robben, Chech, Ferreira) and are ready to spend silly money on the likes of Gerrard, Rooney and others.

 

I dont see how the three players they have bought already improve their team. They already have IMHO the best keeper in the Premiership in Cudicini.

 

Robben is unproven in the Premiership so who knows if he will be any better than an injury free Duff. And Ferreira - is he not the guy who gifted Greece their first goal and hasn't played since ? Glen Johnson is likely to be a pretty good full back anyway.

 

They might have silly money to spend but look at the players who have already turned them down - Ronaldo (the Real one), Beckham Roberto Carlos, Mexes etc

 

You have a point, although I dissagree on Cudicini beeing the best keeper in the Premiership. Chech, from what I have seen of him, is an improvement. Ferreira have to earn his place on the right side, but he will offer stiffer competition to Glen J. than Melchiot. Robben has been excellent for Netherlands in the last two games, and would do the job when Duff is out with injury.

 

Otherwise; I just read in an english paper that Chelsea had offered £20 mill + Duff and Parker for Gerrard. Has anyone else seen that?

[kop]

Name me one player who has ever said "I really want to play for the shirt of Chelsea" apart from the odd local lad coming through. There isn't a single one.

And this makes Chelsea different from Liverpool beacuse?

 

Because of Gerrard saying just that? Or Kewell perhabs?

[Kurt]

with injury.

 

Otherwise; I just read in an english paper that Chelsea had offered £20 mill + Duff and Parker for Gerrard. Has anyone else seen that?

 

If that is true we should say add £20m + Frank " I love our link-up play" Lampard to the deal, then we can start negotiating... I dont want Lampard, but would be fun to rub his nose a little... ;)

[MLB]

I just don't see the logic in them not gonna win, because they didn't win last season. They spend alot of money, but they also made huge progress. Why shouldn't it continue this season? And for the Real Madrid-comment, they have arguable been the best team in europe for the last 10 years, but didn't win anything last season. So, they are not gonna win anything next season either? I just don't understand the argumentation.

 

If you ask outsiders with footballknowledge, who is gonna win more the next 10 seasons, Liverpool or Chelsea, I think for the moment most of them would say Chelsea.

 

 

You're missing the point. The argument is not that they're "not going to win anything." It's that there's no guarantees that they'll win anything simply by throwing huge amounts of money around. Leeds, Real Madrid and Chelsea themselves are all examples of this from the past few years.

 

And yes, maybe most outsiders would tip Chelsea to win more than us in the next ten years, but most outsiders are cunts! We have as much chance of winning major honours as they do. Just look at the Valencia team that beat Real Madrid to the Spanish league title last season. Who was their manager again?

[Tom R]

And this makes Chelsea different from Liverpool beacuse?

 

Because of Gerrard saying just that? Or Kewell perhabs?

 

Hyypia, Henchoz, Smicer, Kewell, Baros, Pongolle, Le Tallec, Cisse, and even our new Manager could ALL have easily signed for other clubs for more money. And that's just a few from TODAYS squad. I coud go further back if you want??

 

All of the above chose us because we are Liverpool, not because we pay the biggest wages (because we don't) You're deluding yourself if you think anyone plays for Cheslea for anything else but money.

[kop]

You're missing the point. The argument is not that they're "not going to win anything." It's that there's no guarantees that they'll win anything simply by throwing huge amounts of money around. Leeds, Real Madrid and Chelsea themselves are all examples of this from the past few years.

 

QUOTE]

Ok, I see THAT point:-)

 

There is never any guaranties for trophies. But the probability of Chelsea winning is greater than for Liverpool (my god, I hated wrighting that sentence!).

 

As for Real Madrid, I would say they are an example of a club that actually won something just by throwing huge amounts of money around.

[Tom R]

But the probability of Chelsea winning is greater than for Liverpool (my god, I hated wrighting that sentence!).

 

As for Real Madrid, I would say they are an example of a club that actually won something just by throwing huge amounts of money around.

 

Both statements completely wrong I'm afraid.

 

Give me ONE reason why Chelsea have MORE of a chance of winning things than us. Just one.

 

And Real Madrid did not get their success by ploughing huge money in to the team, that's only a relatively recent phenomenon.

If anything, they've been LESS successful since they started spending £48m on your Zidane's of this world.

they have all the money in the world now because they became the best team in the world FIRST... then the money and investment follows.

History shows that it has NEVER the other way around.

 

Name a club that has ploughed in MASSIVE money, been successful, and then remained at the top. It has never happened.

Many have tried and every single one of them, EVERY TIME, has always failed.

 

It will be no different with Chelsea.

[kop]

Hyypia, Henchoz, Smicer, Kewell, Baros, Pongolle, Le Tallec, Cisse, and even our new Manager could ALL have easily signed for other clubs for more money. And that's just a few from TODAYS squad. I coud go further back if you want??

 

All of the above chose us because we are Liverpool, not because we pay the biggest wages (because we don't) You're deluding yourself if you think anyone plays for Cheslea for anything else but money.

 

Maybe I am deluding myselfe, but maybe others do the same by thinking players play for Liverpool because it is Liverpool. I think Gerrard is a good example, if he decides to go.

[kop]

Both statements completely wrong I'm afraid.

 

Give me ONE reason why Chelsea have MORE of a chance of winning things than us. Just one.

 

And Real Madrid did not get there success by ploughing huge money in to the team, that's only a relatively recent phenomenon. If anything, they've been LESS successful since they started spending £48m on your Zidane's of this world.

they have all the money in teh world because they became the best team in the world FIRST... then the money follows.

History shows that it has NEVER the other way around.

 

Name a club that has ploughed in MASSIVE money and then remained at the top.

Many have tried and every single one of them, without fail, has always failed.

 

It will be no different with Chelsea.

 

One reason: They where 19 points and a semi final in CL better than us last season.

 

I do agree with you to some extence on the Real Madrid comment, they came to the money through success (and by selling their training ground to the city of Madrid for £150.000.000).

 

Lazio bought the Italian title, but they didn't manage to stay on top. Still, I bet the players said that they "won something" before they went to the next club.

[Tom R]

Maybe I am deluding myselfe, but maybe others do the same by thinking players play for Liverpool because it is Liverpool. I think Gerrard is a good example, if he decides to go.

 

I agree. But that wasn;t my point. My point was that Chelsea have no unity and one common goal (other than the fact they all want the biggest wages) and they don't have a single player who has signed for them because they REALLY wanted to play for Chelsea. Not a fucking one. They're a joke if you ask me.

 

We have probably more of a chance of winning anything than they do next season.

 

You also have to consider the fact that, for all their players, Morinho still has to almost build a team from scratch.

We don't. We just need three class players and to get shut of one class player very quickly, and then we're away!

 

Let the good times roll.

 

Chelsea will finish 3rd next season, Morinho will be fired and they'll be back to square one. You heard it hear first.

[Guest Benito7]

I hate to say it but Chelsea do have more chance of winning things than us (though I still think Stevie should stay to help change that).

 

They finished 19 points above us, they have a manager equally as good as ours and they already have a stronger squad than ours with less uncertainty over their best player/s and a higher level of morale (they clearly feel as if they're going places fast) and they are showing their ambition now by trying (and looking like succeeding) to sign two of the best players (Rooney and Gerrard) in the tournament.

 

I don't like any of this but I am objective and at the present time on all logical factors they are more likely to be successful this coming season.