U21s league

[Faustus]

Any thoughts on this proposal?

 

Green light for U21s league to replace reserves - Premier League - Football - The Independent

 

Green light for U21s league to replace reserves

 

The Premier League is to re-launch the current reserve team competitions as a national under-21s league, to provide game time for elite young players who are languishing on the bench, The Independent has learned.

 

The League's 20 clubs have agreed that games in the new Premier League Reserve League will take place at weekends and may shadow those between the first teams where possible. But they will come after Premier League matches, allowing those players who have made the bench in the elite division, but gained little or no playing time, the opportunity to play in a high-quality second-string game. The new league seems likely to be fully established for the 2013/14 season, rather than this August – because the clubs are yet to agree on how many over-age players each side should be allowed to field, ensuring the league offers a means of older players returning to full fitness.

 

The new league aims to resolve a critical problem in the English game, of the best young talent getting minimal competitive football in squads packed with expensive acquisitions. "By the time I came through the non-league system I'd not received that much coaching but I had 250 games behind me," said England's caretaker manager and under-21 manager Stuart Pearce. "Too many of my players at under-21 level haven't had enough game time. Of that squad I may only have had eight or nine who played on the Saturday. Now that's a crying shame."

 

The Independent can reveal that a national under-18 league is also to be established for all Premier League and Football League clubs which attain Category 1 status – the highest grading under the new Elite Player Performance Plan (EPPP) – in another attempt to better develop young players.

 

It is unclear whether the under-21 league, which clubs with a Category 1 youth development grading under EPPP will join, will carry any commercial opportunities, though there may be some prospect of that if adequate interest is kindled in a competition which could give, for example, Chelsea's Josh McEachran or Liverpool's Raheem Sterling game time they might otherwise miss on a bench the day before.

 

The current Premier Reserve League is split into a northern and southern division but four clubs – Manchester City, QPR, Stoke and Tottenham – do not field sides, and the competition has certainly faded badly since Kevin Keegan dealt it a significant blow by removing Newcastle United in the mid-1990s. Its inadequacy for player development was highlighted in January when Andre Villas Boas, then Chelsea manager, suggested Premier League clubs should be allowed to field reserve sides in the Football League. The Football League called this "offensive", but Everton manager David Moyes has since disclosed that he was thwarted in his own plan to play an Everton 'B' team in the Football Conference in an attempt to upgrade competitive levels for his young players. Newcastle United manager Alan Pardew has also said he is "looking closely" at the wisdom of continuing with the Reserve League in its current format.

 

There is also dissatisfaction among clubs with stronger youth set-ups at the standard of under-18s opposition. The success of last season's Under-19s European NextGen tournament, in which Internazionale defeated Liverpool's semi-final opponents Ajax in the final at Leyton Orient, has proved the value of elite opposition. Manchester City's intention to compete again next year is based on their belief that the experience of overseas travel to play and encounter different systems have been invaluable.

 

The new national under-18s league will provide better competition for top youth sides on a more regular basis. Damien Comolli, director of football at Liverpool – whose 6-0 home defeat to Ajax in the NextGen semi-final revealed a gulf in class – told the LFC Magazine last week that "we want to play against the best". He said: "From day one we have told the Premier League the principle of the best against the best, and playing and training with the best will get our backing. Recently, we played against Manchester United in the under-15s and it was technically a very good game with a high quality of football played."

 

In France, reserve teams may enter the professional pyramid and play as high as the fourth tier – England's League Two – and although that seems unworkable in England, the former France technical director Gerard Houllier is among those urging changes. "In England you lose a lot of players between 18 and 21," he said. "The two countries who are failing are England and Italy. I knew one or two players [when manager] at Aston Villa who did not have enough games to play at the top level. Between 18 and 20 there is nothing. In France when they don't play on a Saturday, they can play for the reserves the next day."

[Jairzinho]

No thanks. Just copy Spain's model.

[Pidge]

No, Spain's system would be highly detrimental to the league and therefore the FA would never go for that. A system could work where the regional conference level is expanded and teams can play up to League two level, league teams using the system should have to pay a very large annual entry fee which will be distributed to secure the future of the clubs playing at that level.

 

Maybe start with a tournament to decide at which level each team starts (say two teams in League 2, four in the Conference and the rest further down to start). Also think the pro teams should have the opportunity for a playoff to avoid relegation against the team replacing them, with the relegated team getting all of the gate money.

 

Strict squad lists should also be implemented where players playing at that level cannot play for the parent club between windows to stop teams dropping younger members of the first team down as ringers and keep the loan market alive.

 

 

Or, the FA/PL could start paying decent sized youth development bonuses to encourage serious youth development at all league and conference clubs.

[Faustus]

No thanks. Just copy Spain's model.

 

How would that work in this country though, mate? I just don't see how you could start it up over here. Presumably there would be between six and ten (possibly more even) Premiership teams who woud be in favour of intergrating their reserve teams into the professional pyramid but would that mean binning off that amount of teams from League Two who have earned their right to compete at that level. Don't really think that's fair, myself. I imagine as well there would be legal challenges to this as well if the Football League were to automatically replace somebody like Barnet with Liverpool Reserves. If I were a supporter of a club like that, I'm not sure I'd like the implication that Liverpool and Man United Reserves mean more than my football club.

 

Or would the leagues themselves be expanded? Around 30 in Leagues One and Two or something? Again, that's problematic because where in the calendar would you fit the extra games?

 

The only way I can see it happening over here and possibly the only way I think makes it fair is to have all of these Reserve teams start at the very bottom of the semi-pro pyramid and have them work their way up into the professional game as other clubs have to do. And I'm not sure if God knows how many years of semi-pro football at that level would be of any benefit to kids who have aspirations of playing in the top flight and at international level.

[Megadrive Man]

This seems like a really good Idea, although personally I'd be tempted to make it under 23 with a maximum of 3 overage players in the squad.

 

As people have already said, the Spain model wouldn't work over here, and could destroy many smaller league clubs, I don't think it would be of great benefit for young players either having to play 46 games against the likes of Dagenham and Redbridge.

[Super Ken]

I must say, I really dont see the difference between what we already have and this.

 

If the FA REALLY wanted to help, they could insist on teams entering the FA Cup having 10 of the matchday squad being 'homegrown' in this country.

The FA Cup is already losing its appeal as a big tournament, so the FA would only stand to gain from re-branding it a little, and helping the game in the process.

[neopulian]

Problem with reserves league is the lack of competitiveness because results are inconsequential. You improve players by playing them in competitive match, better than playing them in competitive match against their own age group in a Mickey Mouse competition that results are inconsequential.

 

Spanish model can work if, for instance, the FA will allow Liverpool to buy Transmere (or Marine), Arsenal to buy Leyton Orient, e.t.c... and allow a workable intra-seasonal player transactions between related clubs.

 

Yes, I can imagine some resentment from Transmere fans in the beginning, but if more Liverpool fans who can't afford Liverpool ticket price begin to attend Transmere games, that initial resentment will dissipate. In the long run, this may actually increase the quality and gate attendances for lower league games and solve some of the financial problems for clubs low in the pyramid.

Edited April 6, 2012 by neopulian

[neopulian]

I must say, I really dont see the difference between what we already have and this.

 

If the FA REALLY wanted to help, they could insist on teams entering the FA Cup having 10 of the matchday squad being 'homegrown' in this country.

The FA Cup is already losing its appeal as a big tournament, so the FA would only stand to gain from re-branding it a little, and helping the game in the process.

 

That'll solve nought. Too few matches.

[Faustus]

Problem with reserves league is the lack of competitiveness because results are inconsequential. You improve players by playing them in competitive match, better than playing them in competitive match against their own age group in a Mickey Mouse competition that results are inconsequential.

 

Spanish model can work if, for instance, the FA will allow Liverpool to buy Transmere (or Marine), Arsenal to buy Leyton Orient, e.t.c... and allow a workable intra-seasonal player transactions between related clubs.

 

Yes, I can imagine some resentment from Transmere fans in the beginning, but if more Liverpool fans who can't afford Liverpool ticket price begin to attend Transmere games, that initial resentment will dissipate. In the long run, this may actually increase the quality and gate attendances for lower league games and solve some of the financial problems for clubs low in the pyramid.

 

No offence, mate, but the fact that you've consistently referred to them as 'Transmere' kind of shows that you haven't got a Scooby Doo what you're talking about.

[neopulian]

No offence, mate, but the fact that you've consistently referred to them as 'Transmere' kind of shows that you haven't got a Scooby Doo what you're talking about.

 

Fair enough that I misplet Tranmere Rovers, and? That's an effective way to redistribute Premier League money to starving lower league clubs teetering on the brink of administration. But lets take one's local pride jumping off the cliff instead, eh?

[kalasoma]

Problem with reserves league is the lack of competitiveness because results are inconsequential. You improve players by playing them in competitive match, better than playing them in competitive match against their own age group in a Mickey Mouse competition that results are inconsequential.

 

Spanish model can work if, for instance, the FA will allow Liverpool to buy Transmere (or Marine), Arsenal to buy Leyton Orient, e.t.c... and allow a workable intra-seasonal player transactions between related clubs.

 

Yes, I can imagine some resentment from Transmere fans in the beginning, but if more Liverpool fans who can't afford Liverpool ticket price begin to attend Transmere games, that initial resentment will dissipate. In the long run, this may actually increase the quality and gate attendances for lower league games and solve some of the financial problems for clubs low in the pyramid.

 

I can understand the reasoning behind it, but I'm not sure that you'd get more Liverpool fans going to watch Tranmere simply because Tranmere have a couple of our reserve team players in their side.

[sir roger]

I think the effort to shadow the senior games is a decent initiative & there is a desperate problem of young players barely getting any game time so I would try anything that would help.

 

I also feel that the 7 substitute rule is being abused as it was increased to help allow space for young players as far as I am aware. I would make a condition that at least 2 subs have to be home grown & less than 21.

[Guest San Don]

No thanks. Just copy Spain's model.

 

No. Just who the fuck are you to tell lower league clubs, fuck off, we're all bigger clubs than you so go and play in another league?

[Jairzinho]

No. Just who the fuck are you to tell lower league clubs, fuck off, we're all bigger clubs than you so go and play in another league?

 

What are you blithering on about?

[Jairzinho]

On second thoughts, please don't respond.