Evra accuses Suarez of racism

[torahboy]

Monkey or mono?

[col06]

The thing i don't get is what language was Suarez making these "alleged" racist remarks in as he can barely speak any English yet can Evra speak Spanish ???

[redsoxs]

A manc in work reckons he's seen a clip where you can see Luis call hil a monkey a couple of times.

 

Possibly talking bollocks...

 

The Mail is reporting it as N word? But that's the Mail....

 

Sources in France said the word Suarez is alleged to have used is ‘n*****’.

 

Read more: Luis Suarez aimed racist abuse at me, claims Patrice Evra | Mail Online

[beejay]

I should imagine the club's solicitors are taking a very close look at what has been said by Evra.

 

It's obvious by now that he can't prove Suarez has racially abused him so the next question is whether Luis and/or the club decide to insist on an apology and an unconditional withdrawal of all allegations or to issue proceedings for slander.

 

It can't be left to fester as it stands. The FA will investigate but the club should insist on a complete exoneration of Luis not some woolly not-proved outcome.

[Trucker Paddy]

I should imagine the club's solicitors are taking a very close look at what has been said by Evra.

 

It's obvious by now that he can't prove Suarez has racially abused him so the next question is whether Luis and/or the club decide to insist on an apology and an unconditional withdrawal of all allegations or to issue proceedings for slander.

 

It can't be left to fester as it stands. The FA will investigate but the club should insist on a complete exoneration of Luis not some woolly not-proved outcome.

 

Totally agree with this post, an apology should be demanded from that cunt

[aws]

I don't think there'll be any clear-cut result either way. But Suarez has been tagged as a diver, a cheat and a racist. Job done.

[Einch]

I don't think there'll be any clear-cut result either way. But Suarez has been tagged as a diver, a cheat and a racist. Job done.

 

It is imperative that we do not let this be the end of the story. Evra and the old drunk cunt need to be given a proper seeing to so that we can reverse this memering.

[Josef Svejk]

Evra knows by doing it, with no proof that Suarez will be tarnished, its like calling him a peado, mud sticks

 

I'm behind Luis 100%

 

What? You're saying Arsene Wenger is a paedo? Ten times? Boy, you better hope Sky Sports has some compelling video evidence, otherwise... well, otherwise, people will choose to believe what they want to believe.

[Josef Svejk]

Incidentally, it seems that the players Ferguson actually worries about in our team (granted there aren't enough of them) tend to come in for his peculiar brand of public abuse (peculiar in the sense that he gets away with saying whatever he wants).

 

Torres was a diver. Now Suarez is a diver, too... and a racist one at that.

[sir roger]

I don't think there'll be any clear-cut result either way. But Suarez has been tagged as a diver, a cheat and a racist. Job done.

 

I think the error Evra has made is the ' more than 10 times' comment in that if he had just said he abused him you could imagine that the cameras may not have picked up on the one moment, but not many people are going to believe there are 10+ examples that are all unspottable by the plethora of cameras involved.

 

As for the diving, Ashley Young must have made even Nani wince in embarrassment on Saturday.

[ADP10]

Has anyone thought for a second this could all be a misunderstanding? I know this is a Liverpool fans forum and obviously people are gonna talk shit about Evra and Man U etc etc... But honestly to think about this whole conspiracy theory against Suarez is IMO (im neutral) quite crazy.

 

So about the misunderstanding:

Evra speaks Italian but clearly understands Spanish. Suarez is not so confident with his English and I assume spoke in Spanish during the game.

 

The word Suarez allegedly used is "negro" which translates to "n*gger" in English. He might have said it 10/20 times because "negro" in Spanish is not a racist word. In South America you call people negro/negra/negrita simply to refer to the colour of their skin or even if they are not black.

 

Evra obviously felt it was racist to call him that way. For Suarez instead "negro" was not racist. May I also add that in South America the perception of racism is totally different to the one we have in Europe, over there you can hear truly bad stuff which for us would be unacceptable but for them simply aren't racist.

 

So there is no wrong and right really. Evra is not talking bullshit and has every right to get mad. Suarez is not racist because he didn't mean it that way.

 

That said if Suarez gets caught saying "negro" he will have a tough time proving what he meant was not racist especially after so many years in Europe.

[sir roger]

Has anyone thought for a second this could all be a misunderstanding? I know this is a Liverpool fans forum and obviously people are gonna talk shit about Evra and Man U etc etc... But honestly to think about this whole conspiracy theory against Suarez is IMO (im neutral) quite crazy.

 

So about the misunderstanding:

Evra speaks Italian but clearly understands Spanish. Suarez is not so confident with his English and I assume spoke in Spanish during the game.

 

The word Suarez allegedly used is "negro" which translates to "n*gger" in English. He might have said it 10/20 times because "negro" in Spanish is not a racist word. In South America you call people negro/negra/negrita simply to refer to the colour of their skin or even if they are not black.

 

Evra obviously felt it was racist to call him that way. For Suarez instead "negro" was not racist. May I also add that in South America the perception of racism is totally different to the one we have in Europe, over there you can hear truly bad stuff which for us would be unacceptable but for them simply aren't racist.

 

So there is no wrong and right really. Evra is not talking bullshit and has every right to get mad. Suarez is not racist because he didn't mean it that way.

 

That said if Suarez gets caught saying "negro" he will have a tough time proving what he meant was not racist especially after so many years in Europe.

 

I take your points but have not heard the word negro mentioned in this case. As far as I am aware Evra has specifically said Suarez said n****r which don't really sound alike in any language, certainly not 10 times+.

 

My post was coming from the perspective that I am sure Sky technicians have been scrutinizing the pictures from Saturday constantly for 4 days now & have seemingly turned up nothing yet.

 

Let me also say that if Suarez is proved to have transgressed then I will back any sanction that is given. I would also point out that if no evidence is brought forward with all the technology at hand, then Evra should be punished heavily for making such damaging claims without any proof.

[Einch]

I think Evra is a lying, cum guzzling piece of shit.

[zigackly]

I just don't buy that he said it; no need for this flimsy excuse about cultural differences. Being a shall we say controversial character and having played in Holland for four years and over here for six months there is not a snowdrop's chance in hell that if this was a man who casually called black players any linguistic variation of negro on the pitch we would not already know about it.

 

I don't need to know or speculate about why Evra is making his accusation. As far as I am concerned until he can prove it, it's completely spurious and I'm not giving it the time of day.

[Anubis]

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.

[Kevin D]

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.

 

Yeah, I could write paragraphs and not come close to emulating the lucidity and quality of Einch's post.

[RobbieOR]

Luis Suárez increasingly looks like he will not face any charges from the Football Association unless Patrice Evra can produce witness statements to support his allegation that he was racially abused during Manchester United's 1-1 draw at Liverpool last weekend.

 

 

The FA is planning to send a delegate to Manchester to interview Evra, possibly on Thursday, now that he is back in the country following the Champions League tie against Otelul Galati.

 

 

However, the case may rest on whether any of Evra's team-mates can corroborate his accusation that Suárez repeatedly racially abused him. The Uruguayan has vehemently denied the allegation, with the support of his club, and the FA needs to determine whether it is simply one man's word against another's. If that is the case, there may be nowhere further for the investigation to go.

 

 

The FA can also study television pictures but it would be highly unusual if it were to bring in lip-readers, and the inquiry will instead focus initially on what precisely the Senegal-born Frenchman claims was said, and whether his allegations can be backed up.

 

 

Evra had claimed on French TV that it happened "at least 10 times", but his case is undermined by the fact he did not bring the allegation to the attention of the referee, Andre Marriner, during the match.

 

 

The first Marriner knew of it was afterwards when Evra, accompanied by Sir Alex Ferguson, went to the referee's room to ask him to include it in his match report. Marriner then told the Liverpool manager, Kenny Dalglish, who spoke to Suárez and established that the Uruguayan denied the allegation.

 

 

Liverpool's belief is that if the case cannot be proved the FA should consider taking action against Evra on the grounds that it was a malicious allegation. This is unlikely to happen, however, unless there is categorical evidence that Suárez did not do what Evra claims.

 

 

A more likely outcome is that the case will be dropped if there are no other United players to support Evra's story. If that is the case, the FA may not even interview Suárez, having already been made aware from the Liverpool end that the allegation is denied. The FA is particularly sensitive to the rivalry between the clubs and eager not to be seen to be making any rash judgments.

 

 

However, anti-racism campaign groups such as Kick It Out believe Evra should have approached the referee during the game. Kick It Out launched its three-week 'One Game, One Community' action programme last weekend, and the row between Evra and Suárez came on the same day that both players wore T-shirts to promote the campaign.

 

 

Liverpool's Luis Suárez may be in clear due to lack of a United witness | Football | The Guardian

 

 

 

 

I bet they pull a witness out of their arse.

[ngogswilly]

Surely them pulling a witness from nowhere won't be sufficient evidence to charge Luis?

 

They need more than that.

[Jairzinho]

I bet they pull a witness out of their arse.

 

Out of who's arse?

[zigackly]

Out of who's arse?

 

Them.

[Anubis]

Only Shrek's arse would be big enough.

[Kevin D]

I bet they pull a witness out of their arse.

 

[magicrat]

I bet they pull a witness out of their arse.

 

Bet they don't

If there was a genuine one then we would know about it by now and Slur would be stirring the pot big time. Can't see one of Evra's teamates coming forward at this late stage. It would look ridculous .

The FA are going to drop this as fast as they can and we will be left with Suarez unfairly tagged as racist because Evra is a gobby little shit and had his arse handed to him on the pitch and went crying to the French media.

[Newport]

the Senegal-born Frenchman

 

Case closed.

[TheHitman]

Is there anything less appealing than the absolute moral certainty with which some Liverpool fans automatically dismissed Patrice Evra's claim that he was racially abused, and some Manchester United fans automatically wrote off Luis Suárez as a racist, despite neither faction having any way of knowing for sure what actually happened on the pitch on Saturday? Actually, yes. There is something less appealing. It is Her Majesty's Press larding on the hints of the insta‑judgment to which they have come on the matter.

 

"Malice" just happened to be the first word of the Telegraph's match report, while the Mail claimed Evra had been "left isolated". Both were fairly typical. This newspaper ran a poll in which the question was termed: "Should Evra be banned if his claim proves false?"

 

Mm. I'm rather sorry we missed the chance to run something similar a few days into the Dominique Strauss-Kahn business. "If the hotel maid's claim is proved false," it might have read, "should she be deported?" Let's hope that in the future, media organisations seeking new revenue streams will explore the possibility of lucrative, X Factor-style phone polling on these hot-button issues. Text the word MARTYR to 80051, or UPPITY to 80052.

 

Votes will cost 25p from a mobile, but the cost to society may be considerably more. It should go without saying that fostering a culture in which a player – any player – feels able to raise allegations of racism without fear of an instant backlash is of interest to all right-thinking fans, no matter which team they support. It should go without saying, but it unfortunately doesn't, which is why Kick It Out was launching its latest three-week campaign at Saturday's game. As it turned out, the match will function as a curtain-raiser to an FA investigation into Evra's claims.

 

Ideally, the FA would have come out with an immediate statement along the lines of: "All accusations of racism are taken seriously, but all players are innocent until proven guilty." Instead they muttered something about "making inquiries", which downgrades the principles at stake. Indeed, it's clear many still regard any such official complaints as breaking ranks, as exemplified by the former United player Paul Parker, who wrote this week that Evra shouldn't have caused "a public fuss", but just mentioned it informally to Kenny Dalglish.

 

Yet the real required reading on the issues raised by this current storm is a 2007 Mail interview with Manchester City's Joleon Lescott, in which the then Everton player recalled his experience of making an allegation of racism to the FA. Lescott submitted that the Newcastle midfielder Emre Belezoglu had called Joseph Yobo a "fucking negro", while his team-mate Tim Howard submitted that he had heard "fucking nigger". It was this disparity that led to the allegation being deemed unproven. Lescott was furious, as he had been all along. On the match day, he felt both clubs were trying to play down the alleged incident. He bridled that the players were advised not to say anything to the media. But the FA hearing disillusioned Lescott most. "It felt like we were on trial as much as Emre was," he said. "I felt hurt by it, having gone to the trouble of making a complaint, attending the hearing, making a stand." He said he had spoken to many black players who had endured "a lot worse", and that he would think twice before wearing a Kick It Out shirt again.

 

Lescott gave that interview in 2007. What a long way we haven't come since – and those fixating on what they deem to be Evra's character will ensure any progress remains glacial. In football as in wider society, there are far too many people who claim that the real issue isn't racism, but people making false accusations of racism, just as there are plenty of people who prefer to think that false accusations of rape are more of a problem than rape itself. They aren't.

 

Deliberately or not, too many miss the big picture, which is that any accusation of racism should be dignified, so that the next person who might have cause to make one sees that a fair hearing is at least a possibility. Naturally, the investigating authorities may find it unproven or malicious. But no incident should be blithely and hastily written off by people not in possession of all the evidence and testimony, but who reckon the accuser may be a wrong 'un. The apparent failure to realise this – even among people who would consider themselves intelligent observers of the game – illustrates how very far football and the society it reflects has to go.

 

Snap judgments in the Patrice Evra-Luis Suárez dispute help no one | Marina Hyde | Football | The Guardian