General Election

[Red Mist]

Mate, I live in West Yorkshire, which (I don't have the stats) I imagine has some of the highest immigration numbers in the country.

I can see the pros and cons of it.

 

You refer to it all as "the problem". Can you elaborate as to why you refer to immigration as a "problem"?

 

What is the "problem" in your eyes? Is it the policy, is it the people themselves who are coming here? What is it.

 

I've stated very clearly what my main griupe with immigration is and SD was kind enough to offer me some concise and valid potential solutions and policies.

 

That sort of language - referring to the whole concept of immigration as "a problem" - just isn't helpful, and it is more in line with the sort of sweeping nonsensical statements the likes of the BNP trot out.

 

I'm not labelling you extreme or a sympathetic to the BNP, by the way, please don't think that.

But if you are going to just just plop everything under the umbrella of "problem", and not elaborate or explain your stance any better, then it's not hard to see why people say you're "extreme" or whatever.

 

Know what I mean?

By all means state your case and debate it, but sweeping generalisations, as I say, just aren't helpful.

Unlike the BNP I do not want a complete halt to immigration. I want better controls over immigration and a reasonable limit to how many we allow to enter the UK each year - that includes EU migrants. Right now we have some of most flimsiest border controls anywhere. Citizens of the EU can enter the UK en masse, with no checks on their backgrounds, no visa required, or anything.

 

To really see the effects of unrestricted EU immigration, you need to live in London or the south east of the country where most of these people have settled. Public services have been stretched almost beyond their limits, hospitals, GP surgeries, public transport, schools etc. have had to cope with a huge influx of people in little over 5 years.

Our population growth has increased to its highest ever recorded in almost 40 years, due largely to immigrants and their progeny. I do not believe we can continue to sustain an ever increasing number of newcomers.

 

I reject the idea that we should allow EU citizens and other immigrants to waltz in here and claim council housing or state benefits. In fact, I find it rather ridiculous that people who have been paying tax for years are still unable to gain state housing or the preferred school of choice for their children while foreigners living here for a few months automatically are placed on the same level.

There's been incredible stories of immigrants given fancy council housing and welfare handouts costing the taxpayers thousands of pounds. This nonsense needs to stop.

 

We should only allow those immigrants who can offer us something. Genuine asylum seekers are welcome. And I don't include people who pay smugglers tens of thousands of pounds to cross entire continents to get here as genuine asylum seekers. The truth is, most genuine asylum seekers would rarely ever make their case in the UK since they would happily settle in the first safe country they come across. Yet we get thousands each year from the farthest reaches of the planet.

 

Aside from the sustainability aspect, there's also the social aspect to this mass migration of people with radically different cultures to ours.

If we continue with this mass migration policy mixed with multiculturalism, we continue creating more and more divisions on an ethnic and religious basis.

And I fear the social unrest this would cause in a few years would be catastrophic.

[Strontium]

Best place to start I reckon would be the Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem websites and read what they stand for remember that they would have their own spin on all things but the main thing you are after is their potential policies.

 

 

Anyone interested in LD policy should check out the Pocket Guide to Policy (PDF) which is fairly concise.

 

Labour's policies are here, I don't think they have a standalone document though, it's all online.

 

Tory policy is here, it's a little sketchy on details unfortunately, the draft manifesto here has more detail but they've only published 4 chapters so far.

[Hand Shandy]

Does that link to the Tory website take you through to the back of a day packet?

[Duncan Clench]

I would be called a floating voter if it weren't for the fact that I will not be voting Labour. Clearly then, it's a choice between Tory and LD for me.

 

One thing that gets on my tits is referring to 'What they did last time they were in power' when speaking of the Tories. In my opinion it's irrelevant. The 2 main parties don't tow their traditional lines any more and you can't tar Cameron with Thatcher's brush. Both are middle-class parties. Not to mention that they haven't been in power, and have had little or no influence in the House, for 13 years.

 

I'm leaning heavily towards Lib Dem. I think they've got a very decent chance this time. Yes, they're not going to get enough to win, but there are very few people who would argue that their influence in Parliament would be welcomed.

 

It would be a travesty if Labour got another term in my opinion. They just get worse and worse.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Voting

 

For those on the forum that will be voting for the first time, or those that haven't voted before but will be this times, Auntie have a good guide on how to vote. It details things like 'registering to vote' and 'what to do on the day'.

 

Debates

 

''BBC, Sky and ITV revealed the schedule for the three eagerly-awaited live debates as Gordon Brown confirmed Britain's May 6 polling date.

The first of the 90-minute sessions will be screened on ITV1 on Thursday April 15, the next by Sky on April 22 and the last by the BBC on April 29.''

 

More Info: Telegraph

[hamstrung]

I could never vote Tory.

 

My vote (by default) will be Labour, unless the Lib Dems manage to persuade me otherwise in the next few weeks.

 

I quote like the idea of a hung parliament and some sort of Labour/Liberal coalition.

[Dirk]

I'm voting Labour, simply because I want to vote against a Tory mandate and voting Lib Dem here wouldn't be voting against a Tory mandate, it'd be voting for it, given that my constituency (Wirral South) is either going to be Labour or Tory. If the constituency was Lib Dem or Tory, then I'd vote Lib Dem but it isn't, so I'm not.

[Strontium]

I hate the whole idea of tactical voting. I'd rather vote for something than against something. It's a shame people feel railroaded by the electoral system into voting tactically.

[Original202]

I'm voting Labour, simply because I want to vote against a Tory mandate and voting Lib Dem here wouldn't be voting against a Tory mandate, it'd be voting for it, given that my constituency (Wirral South) is either going to be Labour or Tory. If the constituency was Lib Dem or Tory, then I'd vote Lib Dem but it isn't, so I'm not.

 

I wonder how many others in your constituency will be doing the same?

 

Perhaps if you all voted Lib Dem it still wouldn't be enough to stop the Tories, but it'd be a step in the right direction.

 

Totally agree with SD, it is a shame, but understandable in some respects.

[JER]

I would vote for the Lib Dems in the council elections as the Haringey Labour council is pretty shabby all round - they thought that investing all the council house sale money in Iceland was a good idea - but am desperate to keep Cameron out so has to be labour in the general election. We have a Lib Dem MP at the moment (Lynne Featherstone) but she only got in on the back of the anti war vote last time, so I reckon it will go Labour this time around.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I'm voting Labour, simply because I want to vote against a Tory mandate and voting Lib Dem here wouldn't be voting against a Tory mandate, it'd be voting for it, given that my constituency (Wirral South) is either going to be Labour or Tory. If the constituency was Lib Dem or Tory, then I'd vote Lib Dem but it isn't, so I'm not.

 

Exactly the right way to think, in my view. Anything to try to keep out the Conservative party.

[Strontium]

I would vote for the Lib Dems in the council elections as the Haringey Labour council is pretty shabby all round - they thought that investing all the council house sale money in Iceland was a good idea - but am desperate to keep Cameron out so has to be labour in the general election. We have a Lib Dem MP at the moment (Lynne Featherstone) but she only got in on the back of the anti war vote last time, so I reckon it will go Labour this time around.

 

 

I honestly can't see Labour increasing their vote aywhere in the country to be honest. Don't underestiimate how royally fucked they are; only a few months ago they were level in the polls with us. Hornsey & Wood Green will be an LD hold with an increased majority, even with a much reduced Iraq War effect.

 

Incidentally, Lynne Featherstone is a great argument against all those people who say "Party X can't win in my area". In 1997, she finished in third place with less than 6,000 votes and 11%, 26,000 votes behind Labour. At the last election she won it with more than 20,000 votes and 43% of the vote.

[JER]

I honestly can't see Labour increasing their vote aywhere in the country to be honest. Don't underestiimate how royally fucked they are; only a few months ago they were level in the polls with us. Hornsey & Wood Green will be an LD hold with an increased majority, even with a much reduced Iraq War effect.

 

Incidentally, Lynne Featherstone is a great argument against all those people who say "Party X can't win in my area". In 1997, she finished in third place with less than 6,000 votes and 11%, 26,000 votes behind Labour. At the last election she won it with more than 20,000 votes and 43% of the vote.

 

We'll see - not sure what the polls are saying around here - do you think the Lib Dems will oust Glenda Jackson in Highgate?

[Duncan Clench]

I'm of the opinion that you should vote for who you want to win. I sort of understand everyone's negativity towards the Tories (especially in the area) but I think it's misplaced. You're not voting for Thatcher, you're voting for Tony mark II.

[Strontium]

We'll see - not sure what the polls are saying around here - do you think the Lib Dems will oust Glenda Jackson in Highgate?

 

 

Well, first off, the boundary has changed, and I don't think it includes Highgate any more? I think there is definitely a chance of the Lib Dems winning it, yeah. It's almost a three-way marginal, a lot will depend on how many votes the Tories get. Glenda Jackson has a reputation for laziness (typical Birkonian then ;)) and has had some negative press for only attending something like a quarter of votes but claiming a fortune in expenses. I think she will lose, there is only so long you can trade on your reputation as an icon before people start demanding that you actually, you know, do something.

[Hand Shandy]

I'm of the opinion that you should vote for who you want to win. I sort of understand everyone's negativity towards the Tories (especially in the area) but I think it's misplaced. You're not voting for Thatcher, you're voting for Tony mark II.

 

No you're not. You're voting for anyone other than Labour.

 

Please enlighten me with the details of the Tories' plans for the next five years, because I haven't actually seen anything concrete yet.

 

So far, their argument seems to be 'change', which essentially means 'trust us over Brown/Labour'.

 

I know this was the ticket Blair got in on in 1997, but I remember the last Tory government(s), and I'm afraid I don't trust them as far as I could throw David Cameron's wallet...

[Dirk]

No you're not. You're voting for anyone other than Labour.

 

Please enlighten me with the details of the Tories' plans for the next five years, because I haven't actually seen anything concrete yet.

 

So far, their argument seems to be 'change', which essentially means 'trust us over Brown/Labour'.

 

I know this was the ticket Blair got in on in 1997, but I remember the last Tory government(s), and I'm afraid I don't trust them as far as I could throw David Cameron's wallet...

 

I will never vote for any person who opposed the minimum wage.

[Hand Shandy]

Who was that? Cameron?

 

Forgive my ignorance - while I tend to be quite opinionated, my lack of detailed background knowledge tends to mean I don't post those opinions too often.

[JER]

I would be called a floating voter if it weren't for the fact that I will not be voting Labour. Clearly then, it's a choice between Tory and LD for me.

 

One thing that gets on my tits is referring to 'What they did last time they were in power' when speaking of the Tories. In my opinion it's irrelevant. The 2 main parties don't tow their traditional lines any more and you can't tar Cameron with Thatcher's brush. Both are middle-class parties. Not to mention that they haven't been in power, and have had little or no influence in the House, for 13 years.

 

I'm leaning heavily towards Lib Dem. I think they've got a very decent chance this time. Yes, they're not going to get enough to win, but there are very few people who would argue that their influence in Parliament would be welcomed.

 

It would be a travesty if Labour got another term in my opinion. They just get worse and worse.

 

If you look past Davie boy and his Eton pal George to the rest of the would be Tory Cabinet - they are all pretty much old style, slightly fat, Tories. To say they will be any different to the 79-97 lot is pretty naive. If you think this recession is bad, wait till you see the Tories in action. 15% interest rates last time they were in power, and I've seen nothing from them to suggest that they will be any different. Not sure what your mortgage is - but I will be seriously fucked if the Tories get their incompetant hands on the economy

[Hand Shandy]

If you look past Davie boy and his Eton pal George to the rest of the would be Tory Cabinet - they are all pretty much old style, slightly fat, Tories. To say they will be any different to the 79-97 lot is pretty naive. If you think this recession is bad, wait till you see the Tories in action. 15% interest rates last time they were in power, and I've seen nothing from them to suggest that they will be any different. Not sure what your mortgage is - but I will be seriously fucked if the Tories get their incompetant hands on the economy

 

This.

[Duncan Clench]

No you're not. You're voting for anyone other than Labour.

 

Please enlighten me with the details of the Tories' plans for the next five years, because I haven't actually seen anything concrete yet.

 

So far, their argument seems to be 'change', which essentially means 'trust us over Brown/Labour'.

 

I know this was the ticket Blair got in on in 1997, but I remember the last Tory government(s), and I'm afraid I don't trust them as far as I could throw David Cameron's wallet...

 

I'm voting for who I want to win. Most likely the Lib Dems. I don't want Labour to win so I'm not voting for them.

 

I can't help you with the Tory plans for the next 5 years, but they're no more vague than what Labour have in store.

 

If you look past Davie boy and his Eton pal George to the rest of the would be Tory Cabinet - they are all pretty much old style, slightly fat, Tories. To say they will be any different to the 79-97 lot is pretty naive. If you think this recession is bad, wait till you see the Tories in action. 15% interest rates last time they were in power, and I've seen nothing from them to suggest that they will be any different. Not sure what your mortgage is - but I will be seriously fucked if the Tories get their incompetant hands on the economy

 

I suggest that to say they're not different is naive. They wouldn't have the majority that Thatcher or Blair had, and they're under much more scrutiny than ever before.

 

The economy that New Labour inherited was on the up. There is no denying that. I totally accept that they did good things under Blair, but they're now a joke.

 

15% interest rates when they were in power (I think it went to 16% actually).... 0.5% under Brown (and printing money). No more boom and bust. Cheers.

 

Oh, and Alistair Darling (who Gordon Brown wanted to sack), is privately educated. Big deal.

[Duncan Clench]

If you look past Davie boy and his Eton pal George to the rest of the would be Tory Cabinet - they are all pretty much old style, slightly fat, Tories. To say they will be any different to the 79-97 lot is pretty naive. If you think this recession is bad, wait till you see the Tories in action. 15% interest rates last time they were in power, and I've seen nothing from them to suggest that they will be any different. Not sure what your mortgage is - but I will be seriously fucked if the Tories get their incompetant hands on the economy

 

Sorry... forgot to add.....

 

You'd be fucked on your mortgage if the interest rates went up because Mr Brown allowed you to borrow more than you could afford.

[hamstrung]

I got a Lib Dem leaflet through my door the other night. Local council rather than prospective MP.

 

They were highlighting a problem with dog shit round our way and there was a photo of about 3 of them perched over a steaming dog poo, pointing at it.

 

It made me laugh, so that might be enough for them to get my vote.

[Dirk]

Who was that? Cameron?

 

Forgive my ignorance - while I tend to be quite opinionated, my lack of detailed background knowledge tends to mean I don't post those opinions too often.

 

Yes. Cameron opposed the introduction of the minimum wage. He said, at the time, it "would send unemployment straight back up."

[JER]

Sorry... forgot to add.....

 

You'd be fucked on your mortgage if the interest rates went up because Mr Brown allowed you to borrow more than you could afford.

 

Tell that to all everybody who suffered at the hands of Norman Lamont in the 90s. I just don't think the Tories are suited to making important decisions - they should stick to rowing and playing bridge.

 

Were you out of the country in the 1980s?