Penalties - Decisions - This season

[sir roger]

You've forgotten my favourite - the legend Nemanja Vidic the so called 22nd best player in the world according to 442 who was sent off for the third consecutive match V Us.

 

Pienaar on Saturday , albeit a bit late.

 

I thought Reading's penno was valid.

[Iantn]

The Lucas one against Stoke wasn't a penalty.

 

The way the game is, it's a stonewall penalty. Whether it should or shouldn't be is another issue entirely.

 

For me any attacker who makes the contact is committing the foul.

[havarantagain]

The Lucas one against Stoke wasn't a penalty. Not even close. He was diving already as the challenge came in and had no intention of taking another step. First person to say that a defender trying to tackle someone is "asking for it" gets negged to fuckery for their remaining years on TLW.

Right, i thought the rules said that if you make contact with the ball first in the area its not a pen, where as if you make contact with the player first then the ball(or not as in the lucas/stoke tackle) its a foul and thus a pen. sorry to be so matter of fact but maybe I've missed something???? neg away if you find my theory misplaced.

[Stu Monty]

The way the game is, it's a stonewall penalty. Whether it should or shouldn't be is another issue entirely.

 

For me any attacker who makes the contact is committing the foul.

 

The way the game is isn't relevant, the laws are relevant. If a player is falling as you touch him then, unless he's getting out the way of some horribly reckless tackle that will injure him, it's not a foul. Lucas made Lucas fall to the ground, not Higginbottom.

 

Right, i thought the rules said that if you make contact with the ball first in the area its not a pen, where as if you make contact with the player first then the ball(or not as in the lucas/stoke tackle) its a foul and thus a pen. sorry to be so matter of fact but maybe I've missed something???? neg away if you find my theory misplaced.

 

I'm saying you can actually make contact with niether. If you don't and some cheating cunt decides he'll deliberately tumble over you then it's not a penalty.

 

I hate the way tackling is now defined as some crazy risk. "Oh my god, he's gone to tackle someone...IS HE INSANE!!" Diving cunts and shit referees are killing the contact element of football.

[Redshadow]

Penalties AND decisions? Hmm, not a tough one THIS season; there's a list as long as my arm of BOTH that we both HAVE been given and SHOULD have been given - here's some of the most prominent (in my view) I've put erroneous decisions (i.e those we SHOULD have got but DIDN'T) in bold;

 

I'll begin with shall I? The most blatant of the lot in my view, a Definite penalty and probable Red Card at Chelsea when Skrtel was basically judo-thrown to the ground at a corner just before half-time by Drogba (I think) of all people; A truly terrible non-call by the ref'.

 

A definite penalty was ignored against Arsenal as well when Gerrard was knocked over in the area early in the match (same as in 2004/2005 Rafa's first season - we had an IDENTICAL pen' claim against the gooners rejected which SHOULDN'T have been). Both games were at Anfield - a factor in the non-award maybe? Actually I struggle to remember the last LEAGUE penalty we had v Arsenal - think it was in 2005/2006 at Anfield and Gerrard missed it if I remember rightly in the game that Garcia won Right at the end on Valentine's night that year.

 

I think we had yet ANOTHER penalty ignored against Arsenal last night as well - not the one at the end with the Fabregas handball - which was a freekick - But earlier in the first half - when Rodriguez's volley was blocked by Vermaelen's hand right in front of Almunia's goal IN the area? Now that WAS a penalty but?.....You know the drill with us and Arsenal by now (it was ignored Again)

 

The 'Beachball' debacle that makes English footballs law out as the public ass we all KNOW it is. An illegal goal and EVERYONE knew it...........bar the referee - reminded me of Maradona's 'hand of god' 1986 debacle and the ignorant ref' there. There was also the penalty with which West Ham first equalised in September - the player kicked it with TWO feet and thus it should have been disallowed by the laws of the game.

 

The two possible pens' at Spurs were mentioned elsewhere here - I think the one where Voronin was knocked down in the area WAS a clear Penalty but the other one (handball was it?) Not so sure about - again, both were ignored. (Mind you we had a BLATANT handball for a pen' ignored there in 2003/2004 against a Spurs Defender from Michael Owen's cross so we were NEVER going to get that decision on Voronin were we?)

 

In our favour thought was the fact that Carra' probably avoided a definite Red against United for stopping Owen when he got through............And then got sent off for an IDENTICAL challenge at Fulham the next week.

 

Then there's that ridiculous home match against Villa in August when we truly scraped the barrel but SHOULD have had a penalty when first Torres in the first half and later Kuyt in the second half just after they HAD got a penalty were each tripped in the area. The Kuyt one in particular was obvious but again? NOT given.

 

Finally in my list of definite pens' not given is two; The one at Stoke on Lucas in the first half is so much a pen' for us due to physical assault almost - never mind chopping down -it's not funny but wasn't given.....hardly surprising when you consider that the Head of the LFC fan-club Mr Lee Mason (AKA Robocop) was the referee on the day; The second was in that FA Cup debacle against Reading where we had a Claim for a pen' when Degen was tripped in the area in the second half - not definite but at OT it Would have been;

 

On the other hand last night's decision by the ref' NOT to give a pen' against Agger was correct and was in my view what should have happened when we played at Highbury in 2002/2003 when we drew 1-1 and Arsenal scored from a penalty from an IDENTICAL dive to the one last night by Bendtner, who ran into Agger on purpose - on that occasion though? Jeffers WAS given a penalty and they salvaged a non-deserved draw - shows refs up for the hypocrites they are IMO (another one was that game we lost to United in 2003/2004 at home 1 - 2 when Pongolle was tripped in IDENTICAL fashion for a penalty to the one that Cantona got in his 'comeback' game but Pongolle? Was ignored;

 

As to Red Cards - We've had as I remember Davis (Bolton), Ward (of Wolves), Vidic (Again!!) and on Saturday Pienaar sent off against us ALL correct decisions - but there was also missed (particularly on Sat' week ago);

Pienaars horror tackle should have had a FIVE match ban at least as well as red but was ignored

Felliani kicking Kuyt in the face AND stamping on Kyrgiakos are BOTH reds but were ignored.

 

I thought Arshavin stamping slyly on Carragher's heels last night as he tackled him was at least a caution as well but ignored.

 

Anyway - that's my view on matters for now - will come back if I remember any others from this season; The thread may SEEM petty yes, but I think it's justified given that the old saying ''it evens itself out'' has been shown to be utter crap this season - we have been on the end of a LOT of bad decisions/ignored calls (look at the sheer amount of bold if you don't believe me) and I can't help but think there's reasons for that as NOTHING like this happened in recent seasons to us but this time? It's been an utter joke and I doubt it's finished yet either..........................

Edited February 12, 2010 by Redshadow

[Redshadow]

Incidentally - I've just had a thought Stumonty - IF the Lucas one WASN'T a penalty against Higginbotham but the Spurs Penalty which was given against Bassong WAS - then WHAT is the difference as the two were virtually identical - Lucas was clearly tripped and COULDN'T move any further forward Without falling - same goes for N'gog when HE was tripped by Bassong yet Howard Webb was correct in pointing for a penalty and that idiot Mason obviously thought otherwise as he Refused one. But since the incidents were almost identical - WHICH one was right?

 

BTW on my list above - forgot to mention WE benefited from the Spurs pen' which WAS clear, AND the N'gog one v Brum' which was a joke - but then the way THEIR players were allowd to body-check, wrestle slam and hold our players in the area was a joke for the whole of that game as well and just ASKING for it - they duly got it to.

 

One more (bold) incident that we SHOULD have had something from but didn't At Ewood Park back in December when Lucas ran into the area to cross - he was tripped blatantly and unable to move any further forward, went down - nothing was given - remarkably similar to the (non) penalty against Arsenal that wasn't given at Anfield this year - Was it a pen'? BOTH were in my view but neither was given - funny that.....

[Jose Jones]

When Gary Gillespie is president, Stu Monty should be made head of FIFA.

[Redexile]

I heard gray say that, but wasnt sure it was right. To me, if a goalie was on the line and was still holding the ball across the line, I'd say it was a free kick for handball, so i applied the same logic to the pen.

 

but if you know the rules for defo, then it was a pen, because there is no doubt it was definately hand ball.

The line constitutes the box so a keeper can handle the ball and a trip or handball on the line is a penalty.

[Redexile]

The way the game is isn't relevant, the laws are relevant. If a player is falling as you touch him then, unless he's getting out the way of some horribly reckless tackle that will injure him, it's not a foul. Lucas made Lucas fall to the ground, not Higginbottom.

 

Wrong

 

 

I'm saying you can actually make contact with niether. If you don't and some cheating cunt decides he'll deliberately tumble over you then it's not a penalty.

 

Right

 

I hate the way tackling is now defined as some crazy risk. "Oh my god, he's gone to tackle someone...IS HE INSANE!!" Diving cunts and shit referees are killing the contact element of football.

 

All part of FIFA's plan to make football a non contact sport. I still believe in the art of the hard tackle winning the ball. In a couple of years you will not see the slide tackle

[cracker]

Right, i thought the rules said that if you make contact with the ball first in the area its not a pen, where as if you make contact with the player first then the ball(or not as in the lucas/stoke tackle) its a foul and thus a pen. sorry to be so matter of fact but maybe I've missed something???? neg away if you find my theory misplaced.

 

This to me is an interesting one - as i often feel that it is made too black and white as lots of people seem to say

touch the ball then the man = no foul

touch the man then the ball = foul

 

And for me it is not that simple - I have tried to look it up in the laws of the game as I suspected it was not even mentioned and to be fair it does say that it is a foul if you

'make contact with your oppoent before touching the ball'

 

But to me when people say 'he got the ball first so it can't be a foul' they are not right as you may tackle in a reckless way touch the ball first and then clatter the man - in that case the ref is justifed in giving a foul (and maybe a yellow) ... and often has done.

 

An incident I find interesting was the Ngog V Bham one - Carsley does not touch the ball at all (fact!!) and comes sliding yards across the turf and Ngog maybe runs into his leg a bit and seems to throw himself over which i will admit was a bit naughty but as Carsley's tackle was so poor maybe a pen was right - I am not even sure myself but certainly it is not as clear cut as the likes of Gray on Sky made it out to be ... but then things rarely are.

 

All in all an interesting debate.

[goatboy59]

Is Redshadow a secret agent using capitals as code?

 

AND THIS BOTH HAVE SHOULD SHOULD DIDN'T

 

IDENTICAL SHOULDN'T LEAGUE ANOTHER WAS KNOW EVERYONE TWO WAS BLATANT NEVER IDENTICAL SHOULD HAD NOT AKA FA OT NOT

 

No.

[Torvald Utne]

Is Redshadow a secret agent using capitals as code?

 

 

 

No.

 

No but he does appear to be incorporating shaunstrudwick posts into his own.

[harryo63]

boring blame this blame that. we,re shit . new manager needed

[lostinspace1970]

Warning....this thread may contain traces of Ifithadnabinfer

[Juan Galonso]

We got luck in spades last season for the first six months of last season. Swings and roundabouts really. It is getting a little bit desperate and Everton like bemoaning every decision that doesn't go our way.

[Dan Vito Corleone]

We have been awful this season. That is an established fact. But I have to say we have been on the end of some appalling, shocking decisions from some appalling, shocking officials. The derby last week was almost another screw job. It's not a conspiracy theory (unless Mason is involved, he IS biased against Liverpool) but the decisions like the ridiculous beachball "goal"... just ridiculous.

[Iantn]

The way the game is isn't relevant, the laws are relevant. If a player is falling as you touch him then, unless he's getting out the way of some horribly reckless tackle that will injure him, it's not a foul. Lucas made Lucas fall to the ground, not Higginbottom.

 

I agree with the non-bold bit. I said this before but in todays game it simply isn't the case. Players are allowed to make the contact themselves, whether that's going done in anticipation of contact, flicking your leg out, dragging your leg or whatever. All done to make sure of contact.

 

None should be allowed but refs inability to punish deliberate foulers and play the advantage rule correctly have brought this more and more into the game.

[goatboy59]

We got luck in spades last season for the first six months of last season. Swings and roundabouts really. It is getting a little bit desperate and WARNOCK-like bemoaning every decision that doesn't go our way.

 

Try that one on!

[El Rojo]

We got luck in spades last season for the first six months of last season. Swings and roundabouts really. It is getting a little bit desperate and Everton like bemoaning every decision that doesn't go our way.

 

Yeah, exactly. We've been unlucky this season but that will change again.

 

Playing badly is the reason we're struggling this time around, not corrupt referees, the alignment of the stars or gypsy curses.

[shaunstrudwick]

the Defoe goal at Anfield should've stood