No ifs, no buts, no provisos - who do you REALLY rate?

[Dicko]

Does anyone know, roughly, how many genuinely quality wingers have moved clubs over this period?

 

That's more or less were I stand.

Robben, possibly?

[Stu Monty]

One for every position in the first team as an absolute minimum. Is this a trick question? In my view we're severely lacking in quality on both flanks (both front and back) and at centre forward.

 

Just asking because I don't think it's as simple as that. When have you ever seen a team with a first eleven of which the fans are happy about every one of them? I think there could and maybe should be more quality than there is but laying it out and defining it the way you have is unrealistic in my opinion. Hardly one of my mates rates Van Der Sar and I reckon very few of them would tick any of their right backs to the above description. I reckon you'd get a massively mixed bag of ticks and crosses in their midfield too.

 

They have more quality, we need more quality. I think as time has gone on the quality in the solid areas has improved as your Cisse, Baros or Bellamy is upgraded to Torres and your Murphy and Hamann are upgraded to Alonso and Mascherano. The other areas do still need improvement but I think that will come now larger amounts are being spent on single players.

[Cardie]

That's more or less were I stand.

Robben, possibly?

 

 

Y0ou could probably add Mancini (who didn't sign for anybody the summer we were after him) and the Guido prick who's name begins with Q but as their form for Inter proved they were no guarantee of success.

 

It sometimes depends as much on the quality of player available as it does on the managers judgement.

[zigackly]

Just asking because I don't think it's as simple as that. When have you ever seen a team with a first eleven of which the fans are happy about every one of them? I think there could and maybe should be more quality than there is but laying it out and defining it the way you have is unrealistic in my opinion. Hardly one of my mates rates Van Der Sar and I reckon very few of them would tick any of their right backs to the above description. I reckon you'd get a massively mixed bag of ticks and crosses in their midfield too.

 

They have more quality, we need more quality. I think as time has gone on the quality in the solid areas has improved as your Cisse, Baros or Bellamy is upgraded to Torres and your Murphy and Hamann are upgraded to Alonso and Mascherano. The other areas do still need improvement but I think that will come now larger amounts are being spent on single players.

 

Agree with that. I think Riera, Arbeloa and Aurelio amongst others are good enough to get a game for instance, but I wouldn't pick them on Paul's criteria.

 

One thing I'm not having: you can't upgrade on Didi.

[Juan Galonso]

Just asking because I don't think it's as simple as that. When have you ever seen a team with a first eleven of which the fans are happy about every one of them? I think there could and maybe should be more quality than there is but laying it out and defining it the way you have is unrealistic in my opinion. Hardly one of my mates rates Van Der Sar and I reckon very few of them would tick any of their right backs to the above description. I reckon you'd get a massively mixed bag of ticks and crosses in their midfield too.

 

They have more quality, we need more quality. I think as time has gone on the quality in the solid areas has improved as your Cisse, Baros or Bellamy is upgraded to Torres and your Murphy and Hamann are upgraded to Alonso and Mascherano. The other areas do still need improvement but I think that will come now larger amounts are being spent on single players.

 

Which is what I was saying yesterday Stuart about larger amounts on players of genuine quality needed on players who will go straight in to the first team. We missed out on Arshavin who is exactly the type of player we are crying out for now because of Rafas fixation on building a big squad on numbers but low on top quality in attacking positions. If Rafa is given 20 plus million in he summer I have a feeling we will still see the mix and match of 3 or 4 signings of decent quality to add to the squad but not one top quality player going straight in to the team. As a side point I think Didi is a better player than Mascherano.

[James Dean]

Agree with that. I think Riera, Arbeloa and Aurelio amongst others are good enough to get a game for instance, but I wouldn't pick them on Paul's criteria.

 

One thing I'm not having: you can't upgrade on Didi.

 

I love Didi, he's class in every single way, but Alonso is a better player.

[Cardie]

Which is what I was saying yesterday Stuart about larger amounts on players of genuine quality needed on players who will go straight in to the first team. We missed out on Arshavin who is exactly the type of player we are crying out for now. If Rafa is given 20 plus million in he summer I have a feeling we will still see the mix and match of 3 or 4 signings of decent quality to add to the squad but not one top quality player going straight in to the team. As a side point I think Didi is a better player than Mascherano.

 

What type of player is Arshavin and where would you see him playing in our team?

[Kevin D]

Y0ou could probably add Mancini (who didn't sign for anybody the summer we were after him) and the Guido prick who's name begins with Q but as their form for Inter proved they were no guarantee of success.

 

It sometimes depends as much on the quality of player available as it does on the managers judgement.

 

Neither of us would have identified , for instance,, Martin Skrtel but Rafa has. That's because he's got a network of scouts and he's paid a lot of money to find these players. Just because we may or may not be able to pick out a class winger does not mean that a class winger is not out there.

[Juan Galonso]

What type of player is Arshavin and where would you see him playing in our team?

 

Arshavin would fit anywhere in the three behind Torres. He is better than Dirk and Riera so would easily go in to any of those positions. Versatile, can unlock defences, can run with the ball. In short everything that Dirk and Riera can't do.

[zigackly]

Which is what I was saying yesterday Stuart about larger amounts on players of genuine quality needed on players who will go straight in to the first team. We missed out on Arshavin who is exactly the type of player we are crying out for now. If Rafa is given 20 plus million in he summer I have a feeling we will still see the mix and match of 3 or 4 signings of decent quality to add to the squad but not top quality going straight in to the team.

 

There's more than one position needs addressing though, so he can't get a £20M signing for each position. Hopefully he'll get a little more this summer off the Keane sale and we can hit two positions, but I'm not counting on him getting anything above sales if the two cunts are still in charge.

 

In the last couple of years by the way he's bought three expensive players for the first team in Torres, Mascherano and Keane, so I think he'd agree with you that it's time to spend bigger on first team positions. At the same time he's also trying to improve other areas of the squad where he can.

 

It's a pity Dossena and Keane were two mistakes at the same time, and we could probably have kept Voronin instead of Ngog. Not a great summer all in all.

[Stu Monty]

Which is what I was saying yesterday Stuart about larger amounts on players of genuine quality needed on players who will go straight in to the first team. We missed out on Arshavin who is exactly the type of player we are crying out for now. If Rafa is given 20 plus million in he summer I have a feeling we will still see the mix and match of 3 or 4 signings of decent quality to add to the squad but not top quality going straight in to the team.

 

Yes, but I'm saying that can happen now, you were saying we should have had Biscan, Traore, Dudek, Diao and Diouf playing alongside whichever £20m player would come to play for us (and just to remind you, we weren't first choice for the likes of Mascherano and Torres then either, the couple of years of Champions league success has helped recruitment a lot, I'd venture).

 

How does the mix and match theory go along with him spending the last £20m he was given on one attacking player that went straight into the team?

[Cardie]

Arshavin would fit anywhere in the three behind Torres. He is better than Dirk and Riera so would easily go in to any of those positions.

 

Right that's where you'd play him but what type of player do you think he is?

 

Would you class him as someone who likes to go wide and stretch the defence or drift into the centre, do you see him as a 1 and 2 touch player or a player who likes to run at the opposition?

 

Whoever we sign has to compliment Gerrard/Torres (assuming you'd play Gerrard behind Torres and not drop him deeper).

[Catch22]

We had 1 player who the big 3 coveted & the otehr had just fucked off for CL football.

 

Pepe,Skrtel,Agger,Masch & Torres were all 23 or under when signed.

Gerr & Carra had their games significantly improved.

 

Soon Chav's aging will soon give us the 2nd best set of players in the country.

 

All this for a final net bill of about £75m incl losses on the failiures.

 

Or alternatively 50% more than Spurs spent this window on utter shite

Or the same as Arse have spent in extra wages than us in his time here.

Or Shevchenko + Veron + Jeffers

 

Excellent body of work

[Paul]

Just asking because I don't think it's as simple as that. When have you ever seen a team with a first eleven of which the fans are happy about every one of them? I think there could and maybe should be more quality than there is but laying it out and defining it the way you have is unrealistic in my opinion. Hardly one of my mates rates Van Der Sar and I reckon very few of them would tick any of their right backs to the above description. I reckon you'd get a massively mixed bag of ticks and crosses in their midfield too.

 

They have more quality, we need more quality. I think as time has gone on the quality in the solid areas has improved as your Cisse, Baros or Bellamy is upgraded to Torres and your Murphy and Hamann are upgraded to Alonso and Mascherano. The other areas do still need improvement but I think that will come now larger amounts are being spent on single players.

 

In the eighties I was broadly happy with every player who regularly stepped onto the pitch, Stu. Obviously there were those who were clearly not as good as others, but I don't remember any regulars who really worried me with their limitations the way so many of our current crop of players do. I know it's tempting to look back with rose tinted specs, but even the likes of Gary Ablett were not as limited as some of this lot.

 

Too many of our players simply have too many limitations, in my view. For example, Dirk's touch, pace, passing ability and finishing are all lacking to one degree or another; if he was wobbly in only two of those areas rather than all four, he'd be a player - but he's not. Ditto so many others, though - when you weigh their strengths and weaknesses, the scales inevitably tip to the negative in most cases.

 

In my view there are certain fundamentals that you should aim for with every signing (athleticism, touch, intelligence and basic passing ability) regardless of position, before you even begin to look at their specifc positional attributes. However, I don't see those criteria being applied consistently in our transfer activity.

[zigackly]

I love Didi, he's class in every single way, but Alonso is a better player.

 

No, he's a different type of player. Didi was a defensive midfielder, Alonso is what the Italians would call a "pivote".

[Juan Galonso]

Right that's where you'd play him but what type of player do you think he is?

 

Would you class him as someone who likes to go wide and stretch the defence or drift into the centre, do you see him as a 1 and 2 touch player or a player who likes to run at the opposition?

 

Whoever we sign has to compliment Gerrard/Torres (assuming you'd play Gerrard behind Torres and not drop him deeper).

 

I think he is that versatile a player he can do any of the things you are suggesting. I could have seen him interchanging with Stevie a lot in the 4 2 3 1 formation. Damn shame.

[snez1]

First eleven material week in week out:

Pepe, Agger, Skrtel, Carra, Masch, Xabi, Stevie, Nando.

 

Good players worthy of being in the squad:

Fabio, Al, Riera, Sami.

 

Insua could push in to either bracket but it's too early to tell. Also, if Aurelio could stay fit he's easily good enough for first chocie left back. Quality, quality player but alas made of glass.

[ScottyT]

There's no guarantee that Benitez would get more from better wingers. I think better players have been available and he's gone for those who he feels will stick to his regimented approach. He's already restricted Riera from his natural attacking game. It all comes back to his methods - he's a defensive manager.

 

Quaresma is smugly written off these days but I'd bet any money he'd have worked well in our team as it's that bit of arrogance and flair that we're lacking to counter the industry and effort.

[Paul]

Y0ou could probably add Mancini (who didn't sign for anybody the summer we were after him) and the Guido prick who's name begins with Q but as their form for Inter proved they were no guarantee of success.

 

It sometimes depends as much on the quality of player available as it does on the managers judgement.

 

A good and fair point, mate. However, I still believe that he's basically a poor judge of attacking players; certainly he is relative to his defensive signings. I can't imagine him signing instantly successful, but relatively unknown attackers in the way he brought in Reina, Skrtel and Agger, for instance. There are players out there that other managers get for comparable money to what we've spent. Ashley Young and Valencia are the first two that spring to mind, but there are surely plenty more. Evra (who is as much an attacker as a defender) was an absolute bargain for The Mancs, for example.

[snez1]

There's no guarantee that Benitez would get more from better wingers. I think better players have been available and he's gone for those who he feels will stick to his regimented approach. He's already restricted Riera from his natural attacking game. It all comes back to his methods - he's a defensive manager.

 

Quaresma is smugly written off these days but I'd bet any money he'd have worked well in our team as it's that bit of arrogance and flair that we're lacking to counter the industry and effort.

 

I don't. He's been fucking woeful at Inter. Absaloute gash. When Mourinho spends £20m on you and sends you away after 6 months you know you've been dogshit. So overrated it's untrue, the definitive Youtube player with Joaquin.

[ScottyT]

Jose is another stickler for 'effort', which we have in the buckeload. He was just an example of that type of player anyway, whom Benitez seems not to trust.

[sir roger]

Very surprised that only about 30% rate Arbeloa and I think he is underrated & certainly missed during his recent injury break.

 

The 13 who dissed Sami had better buy Paul a present to thank him for making this poll anonymous.

[Cardie]

I don't. He's been fucking woeful at Inter. Absaloute gash. When Mourinho spends £20m on you and sends you away after 6 months you know you've been dogshit. So overrated it's untrue, the definitive Youtube player with Joaquin.

 

Quaresma's whole mentality can be summed up in one move from the Euro Championships for Portugal. Can't remember who they were playing but they break away from a corner and Quaresma has three quarters of the pitch with no one near him, he get's to to the dugout and out of nowhere tries a completely unnecessary trick and falls over the ball, the mve breaks down and Scolari goes mental.

 

He's pulled the same shit for Inter (although watch him play well for the chavs now).

[Stu Monty]

A good and fair point, mate. However, I still believe that he's basically a poor judge of attacking players; certainly he is relative to his defensive signings. I can't imagine him signing instantly successful, but relatively unknown attackers in the way he brought in Reina, Skrtel and Agger, for instance. There are players out there that other managers get for comparable money to what we've spent. Ashley Young and Valencia are the first two that spring to mind, but there are surely plenty more. Evra (who is as much an attacker as a defender) was an absolute bargain for The Mancs, for example.

 

In the same way Skrtel and Agger seem to be for us. Comparing their success to our failure is always going to be flawed. You get some right you get some wrong, Nani cost almost as much as Torres...it happens to all managers; it just happens less when you've got the cash to go big on the certainties like Ferdinand, Rooney or Berbatov.

[snez1]

Quaresma's whole mentality can be summed up in one move from the Euro Championships for Portugal. Can't remember who they were playing but they break away from a corner and Quaresma has three quarters of the pitch with no one near him, he get's to to the dugout and out of nowhere tries a completely unnecessary trick and falls over the ball, the mve breaks down and Scolari goes mental.

 

He's pulled the same shit for Inter (although watch him play well for the chavs now).

 

Yup, remember that, it was fucking ridiculous. All the talent in the world but no fucking brain or heart.