Emergency Ward 10 - The Injuries Thread

[Torvald Utne]

Yes, we'd be screwed without his assists 

[No2]

Klopps updates are bit bleak, sounds like we'll be worse off than last week. Jota back on the bench, Thiago out and the others not ready for the bench. That's my reading of it anyway. 

[Barrington Womble]

Sounds like it doesn't it. Thiago can't come as much of a surprise though, he's had quite a run without an injury. I'd go with Bajcetic, Henderson and Jones I think. I'd maybe even bring fab back. They won't be trying to pass through us, just kick us and launch the ball long. 

[an tha]

The inevitability of Thiago going down now is off the charts.

 

As for the rest - Jota aside there was never much chance they would be ready this week - but at least they are edging closer.

 

I personally would be surprised if Jota was involved given how long he has been out.

 

Firmino is the laughable one though - was ruled out initially for the milk cup tie at Man City on 22nd December with what was called a minor issue - here we are 7 weeks on and still not back.

 

 

Jürgen Klopp remains hopeful Diogo Jota will be in contention to make a return from injury against Everton on Monday night.

 

The Reds welcome their Merseyside rivals to Anfield in the Premier League, with Jota having recently resumed training after being sidelined since mid-October.

 

Klopp also provided updates on Virgil van Dijk, Roberto Firmino and Arthur Melo ahead of the fixture – with all three stepping up their comebacks at the AXA Training Centre.

 

“The players are back in training, [but] still in different stages,” Klopp said during his pre-match media briefing.

 

“Diogo is the closest, he trains now normal already for two days, so another three days [of] training is possible for him. I think he is in contention for the squad, I would say, but we have to wait a little bit.

 

“Bobby next one, I don’t know, we have to see how that looks now, how he deals with training intensity [and] stuff like this and then we make a decision there.

 

“Virgil, I don’t think he is that close already, but we will work on that as well. Arthur, probably similar to Bobby, I would say.”

 

The Liverpool boss also revealed midfielder Thiago Alcantara has been absent from training in recent days, undergoing assessment with medical staff.

 

“Yeah, Thiago has some problems,” Klopp added. “I know the problems, but I have to ask the medical department what I am allowed to say about it. Hip flexor, stuff like this, that’s it pretty much. He wasn’t able to train.”

 

Luis Diaz and Ibrahima Konate remain out for the Reds, while Fabinho missed last weekend’s fixture against Wolverhampton Wanderers due to illness.

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

10 minutes ago, an tha said:

The inevitability of Thiago going down now is off the charts.

 

As for the rest - Jota aside there was never much chance they would be ready this week - but at least they are edging closer.

 

I personally would be surprised if Jota was involved given how long he has been out.

 

Firmino is the laughable one though - was ruled out initially for the milk cup tie at Man City on 22nd December with what was called a minor issue - here we are 7 weeks on and still not back.

 

 

Jürgen Klopp remains hopeful Diogo Jota will be in contention to make a return from injury against Everton on Monday night.

 

The Reds welcome their Merseyside rivals to Anfield in the Premier League, with Jota having recently resumed training after being sidelined since mid-October.

 

Klopp also provided updates on Virgil van Dijk, Roberto Firmino and Arthur Melo ahead of the fixture – with all three stepping up their comebacks at the AXA Training Centre.

 

“The players are back in training, [but] still in different stages,” Klopp said during his pre-match media briefing.

 

“Diogo is the closest, he trains now normal already for two days, so another three days [of] training is possible for him. I think he is in contention for the squad, I would say, but we have to wait a little bit.

 

“Bobby next one, I don’t know, we have to see how that looks now, how he deals with training intensity [and] stuff like this and then we make a decision there.

 

“Virgil, I don’t think he is that close already, but we will work on that as well. Arthur, probably similar to Bobby, I would say.”

 

The Liverpool boss also revealed midfielder Thiago Alcantara has been absent from training in recent days, undergoing assessment with medical staff.

 

“Yeah, Thiago has some problems,” Klopp added. “I know the problems, but I have to ask the medical department what I am allowed to say about it. Hip flexor, stuff like this, that’s it pretty much. He wasn’t able to train.”

 

Luis Diaz and Ibrahima Konate remain out for the Reds, while Fabinho missed last weekend’s fixture against Wolverhampton Wanderers due to illness.

 

 

The amount of injuries we pick up that never seem to end is mental. I have noticed over the last year or two we started getting lots of muscle type injuries where players were back in times that previously you wouldn't have considered possible. I wondered at the time if in the past we might have heard about "felt something, it's just a precaution" and now they scan everything they can say 10 day hamstring injury. But if we are maybe trying to get these lads back in earlier than we would before because we think we have more data, are we maybe asking them to do too much or we're going through a bit of a learning curve on how to use this data? We have so many injuries and so many that last way beyond what they estimate, there's clearly something not right. 

[Megadrive Man]

1 minute ago, Barrington Womble said:

The amount of injuries we pick up that never seem to end is mental. I have noticed over the last year or two we started getting lots of muscle type injuries where players were back in times that previously you wouldn't have considered possible. I wondered at the time if in the past we might have heard about "felt something, it's just a precaution" and now they scan everything they can say 10 day hamstring injury. But if we are maybe trying to get these lads back in earlier than we would before because we think we have more data, are we.maybe asking them.to do too much or we're going through a bit of a learning curve on how to use this data. We have so many injuries and so many that last way beyond what they estimate, there's clearly something not right. 

 

I wonder if a lot of players have been playing through injuries in recent years and its all finally starting to catch up with us.

 

Klopp has spoken in the past about how VVD and some players are willing to play through pain. 

[an tha]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

The amount of injuries we pick up that never seem to end is mental. I have noticed over the last year or two we started getting lots of muscle type injuries where players were back in times that previously you wouldn't have considered possible. I wondered at the time if in the past we might have heard about "felt something, it's just a precaution" and now they scan everything they can say 10 day hamstring injury. But if we are maybe trying to get these lads back in earlier than we would before because we think we have more data, are we maybe asking them to do too much or we're going through a bit of a learning curve on how to use this data? We have so many injuries and so many that last way beyond what they estimate, there's clearly something not right. 

Yeah. There is something amiss in our medical/diagnosis/conditioning/recovery/rehab team/s.

 

I used to put stuff down to just Klopp not really wanting to say anything too much or even just not knowing for sure, but this season it has been an endless stream of injuries that are 'minor' or 'knocks' which then end up seeing lengthy absences.

 

The Diaz situation stinks as well - appears to have been really badly managed that one.

 

There have been a couple of little comments from Klopp as well this season that come across to me as maybe little pops at the fitness people or at least frustration. The communication around what injuries are/how long will be out has been poor too.

 

There is IMHO a case for there needing to be some considerable improvement in the whole set up around it.

 

The sheer number of injuries and similar types is a worry and the length of them this season has often been just so long, so often.

 

The club must surely recognise it has a problem and hopefully is working on understanding how to fix it.

 

[an tha]

Didn't we have a lot of injuries, especially muscle injuries when he was here before and when he went to Arsenal they suffered a lot....Since he has been back it has bee  bad again...

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/arsenal-physio-chris-morgan-set-to-return-to-liverpool-a4482831.html

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, an tha said:

Yeah. There is something amiss in our medical/diagnosis/conditioning/recovery/rehab team/s.

 

I used to put stuff down to just Klopp not really wanting to say anything too much or even just not knowing for sure, but this season it has been an endless stream of injuries that are 'minor' or 'knocks' which then end up seeing lengthy absences.

 

The Diaz situation stinks as well - appears to have been really badly managed that one.

 

There have been a couple of little comments from Klopp as well this season that come across to me as maybe little pops at the fitness people or at least frustration. The communication around what injuries are/how long will be out has been poor too.

 

There is IMHO a case for there needing to be some considerable improvement in the whole set up around it.

 

The sheer number of injuries and similar types is a worry and the length of them this season has often been just so long, so often.

 

The club must surely recognise it has a problem and hopefully is working on understanding how to fix it.

 

The worry at the moment though is who is driving all that. You'd have thought in the past we'd have the data teams and medical teams working together to try and assess what's going on. But it feels the whole place is a mess. The data team can't retain people, there was that thing with the doctor. It feels like we might be lacking some grown ups in the room. We've all been there in workplaces where people can't do the obvious for trying to deal with reactionary stuff. I sense that's where we are, so even if we know there's a problem, we mightn't have much capacity to get it right. Klopp can't do everything. In fact it's always seemed to me part of his brilliance is his ability delegate. It seems at the moment he doesn't have many people to delegate to. 

[an tha]

Just now, Barrington Womble said:

The worry at the moment though is who is driving all that. You'd have thought in the past we'd have the data teams and medical teams working together to try and assess what's going on. But it feels the whole place is a mess. The data team can't retain people, there was that thing with the doctor. It feels like we might be lacking some grown ups in the room. We've all been there in workplaces where people can't do the obvious for trying to deal with reactionary stuff. I sense that's where we are, so even if we know there's a problem, we mightn't have much capacity to get it right. Klopp can't do everything. In fact it's always seemed to me part of his brilliance is his ability delegate. It seems at the moment he doesn't have many people to delegate to. 

A fish rots from the head down.....

 

There are worries about the whole club structure at present for me.

 

Klopp can and IMO will return us to the top but to do so he needs the structure of the club to be right  - all the way down and across - if it isn't even he won't be successful.

 

Hopefully this is just all a transition and club will be stable and functional soon, but at present doubts remain.

[Barrington Womble]

Just now, an tha said:

A fish rots from the head down.....

 

There are worries about the whole club structure at present for me.

 

Klopp can and IMO will return us to the top but to do so he needs the structure of the club to be right  - all the way down and across - if it isn't even he won't be successful.

 

Hopefully this is just all a transition and club will be stable and functional soon, but at present doubts remain.

Yeah, I've no doubt klopp can do it, but he can't on his own. 

 

This ownership stuff needs fixing. I don't care what anyone says, it's going to impact us. 

[No2]

I the medical stuff is blown out of proportion. We have a handful of players that are injury prone, the world's best doctors can't fix them. Buying Ox and Thiago with their injury records and expecting anything other than injuries was the mistake. 

 

Leaving them aside we have the Diaz situation which looks a huge mistake on the face of it.

 

Virgil is not a big deal at all, player thought he was OK, told manager as such and it turns out he wasn't. That's not on anyone.

 

Bobby, we have very little detail so hard to judge.

 

If we didn't have a bunch of injury prone players (all ironically not injured) then it just looks like one mistake, and it's a mistake clubs make all the time, albeit not usually with a 6 week window to get it done.

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, No2 said:

I the medical stuff is blown out of proportion. We have a handful of players that are injury prone, the world's best doctors can't fix them. Buying Ox and Thiago with their injury records and expecting anything other than injuries was the mistake. 

 

Leaving them aside we have the Diaz situation which looks a huge mistake on the face of it.

 

Virgil is not a big deal at all, player thought he was OK, told manager as such and it turns out he wasn't. That's not on anyone.

 

Bobby, we have very little detail so hard to judge.

 

If we didn't have a bunch of injury prone players (all ironically not injured) then it just looks like one mistake, and it's a mistake clubs make all the time, albeit not usually with a 6 week window to get it done.

Well in mistakes you can add Jota over the summer (and perhaps how his return was handled) and how kelleher was handled over the summer. 

 

I think I read last week we've had 17 different hamstring injuries this season. If that's right, then I don't see how we haven't got a problem. 

[an tha]

2 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Yeah, I've no doubt klopp can do it, but he can't on his own. 

 

This ownership stuff needs fixing. I don't care what anyone says, it's going to impact us. 

Yeah all areas of the football club need to be stable and working properly.

 

It definitely feels like that is not case at present.

 

 

[an tha]

52 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Well in mistakes you can add Jota over the summer (and perhaps how his return was handled) and how kelleher was handled over the summer. 

 

I think I read last week we've had 17 different hamstring injuries this season. If that's right, then I don't see how we haven't got a problem. 

It is correct about those injuries.

[Barrington Womble]

4 minutes ago, an tha said:

It is correct about those injuries.

So that's before we get into the pile of calf strains we've had too. Way too many muscle injuries this season. 

[an tha]

Thing is with our injuries they are still coming regularly whilst we have a light schedule.

 

We've been playing only one game a week lately and have not long had a break for that shite in Qatar....and whilsy we of couree had players out there we didn't have many play a bomb load and all got a break after it.

 

That is as easy a schedule as it gets for us - and much, much lighter than it has been and we would hope it will be, unless we miss out on Europe next season.

 

So if it is all about 'red flags/lines' about mins played etc, then things are potentially even worse than we think - as fuck help us when schedule would be heavy.

 

I think I recall reading somewhere recentlyish that we changed our data company who provide all the fitness analysis/management stuff - I wonder if that is an issue?

 

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

3 minutes ago, an tha said:

Thing is with our injuries they are still coming regularly whilst we have a light schedule.

 

We've been playing only one game a week lately and have not long had a break for that shite in Qatar....and whilsy we of couree had players out there we didn't have many play a bomb load and all got a break after it.

 

That is as easy a schedule as it gets for us - and much, much lighter than it has been and we would hope it will be, unless we miss out on Europe next season.

 

So if it is all about 'red flags/lines' about mins played etc, then things are potentially even worse than we think - as fuck help us when schedule would be heavy.

 

I think I recall reading somewhere recentlyish that we changed our data company who provide all the fitness analysis/management stuff - I wonder if that is an issue?

 

 

 

That last paragraph sounds most likely. The thing is if we're doing stuff just like counting minutes to see where people are, then how can that work? Every okay is capable of different workloads. You'd like to think these days they could stick them on a running machine or whatever and just point some fucking heat gun at them or something and work out if sections of muscle look stressed. 

[johnsusername]

20 hours ago, No2 said:

I the medical stuff is blown out of proportion. We have a handful of players that are injury prone, the world's best doctors can't fix them. Buying Ox and Thiago with their injury records and expecting anything other than injuries was the mistake. 

 

Leaving them aside we have the Diaz situation which looks a huge mistake on the face of it.

 

Virgil is not a big deal at all, player thought he was OK, told manager as such and it turns out he wasn't. That's not on anyone.

 

Bobby, we have very little detail so hard to judge.

 

If we didn't have a bunch of injury prone players (all ironically not injured) then it just looks like one mistake, and it's a mistake clubs make all the time, albeit not usually with a 6 week window to get it done.

 

It's like an episode of MASH. I don't know who is in charge of strength and conditioning at the club, but someone is responsible - it's a total shit show. These are lads at their physical peak, and it's literally someone's job to keep them fit. Someone somewhere is failing badly. 

[an tha]

So Thiago is fucked again - 4 weeks or so out and that kid Ramsay too.

 

Calvin Ramsay, the 19-year-old who joined from Aberdeen last summer and has chiefly played for the club’s Under-23s side, also has a long-term injury."

[Crazy Dave]

What's this long-term injury for Ramsey about? Absolute disaster of a season for him and us. 

 

 

[an tha]

4 minutes ago, Crazy Dave said:

What's this long-term injury for Ramsey about? Absolute disaster of a season for him and us. 

 

 

Fuck knows.

 

Appreciate he is only a kid, and maybe it is just bad luck - but lad has never been right from day one has he.

[coachpotato]

Growing pains.

[Barrington Womble]

55 minutes ago, an tha said:

Fuck knows.

 

Appreciate he is only a kid, and maybe it is just bad luck - but lad has never been right from day one has he.

We found out he had issues on his medical and signed him anyway. That's what happens when you're skint and need most of the money on the right back you've sold. 

 

As for thiago, echo suggesting no time line but likely to include both Madrid games. I'll be shocked if we see him this side of Easter with his and our record. 

[Captain Howdy]

Shaping up to be one of the worst seasons in our recent history this, just endless gloom. I’m worried about just how ugly it could get.