Grenfall Tower Fire

[Paulie Dangerously]

It does beg the question who approved the original test requirements

Have a read of this

 

I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

 

London fire: Fire safety risk inspections pointless, says expert - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40357628

[Moctezuma]

Lammy finally getting mainstream coverage about the death toll cover up

 

Can't understand why Corbyn isn't all over this, 

 

To be disgustingly cynical about this:

 

The right have already started attacking Labour councils (like Camden) for having exactly the same materials and conditions in their tower blocks, so perhaps there is little more political capital to be gained at this point until something concrete comes out regarding the death toll cover-up.

[magicrat]

Probably because he knows that he's already perceived as a "loony leftie" in some quarters, so is staying well clear of any "mad conspiracies".

 

So is CND yet he hasn't ditched that,  I think given the attention he lavished on the victims ( sincere I have no doubt) I find any reticence to demand answers on the death toll a little baffling

[johnsusername]

Reading the story about the mother, baby and 6 year old found dead in the stairwell is so tragic. I can only imagine the panic in that tower. Coming hot on the heels of the Tories and DUP voting against the removal of the pay freeze. What a fucking country.

[magicrat]

What's not to like about the Tories choice of judge for the enquiry,  70 year old establishment suit with previous on treating London tenants like shit.

No 1 priority will be to ensure no shite end up on the doorstep of the Tories,  Muddy the waters , make sure its classed as a problem ignored by governments of all colours and  point the finger at Labour councils that did fuck all too.  You could write his fucking report tomorrow and the Grenfell victims will have to wait decades for justice. . With Hillsborough finally coming to closure after 28 years this fucking scum government are pulling the same stunts again

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40438701

[Rico1304]

What's not to like about the Tories choice of judge for the enquiry,  70 year old establishment suit with previous on treating London tenants like shit.

No 1 priority will be to ensure no shite end up on the doorstep of the Tories,  Muddy the waters , make sure its classed as a problem ignored by governments of all colours and  point the finger at Labour councils that did fuck all too.  You could write his fucking report tomorrow and the Grenfell victims will have to wait decades for justice. . With Hillsborough finally coming to closure after 28 years this fucking scum government are pulling the same stunts again

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40438701

That's not what the article says though is it? He's a hugely experienced lawyer.

[magicrat]

That's not what the article says though is it? He's a hugely experienced lawyer.

Guilty of reading between the lines, sue me

 

He is already saying his terms of reference won't be as wide as people want now he has met the residents, He will find out how the fire started and why it spread,  I think we pretty much know that already without waiting a year for his report, This enquiry has nothing to do with finding out why authorities ignored warnings and let it happen. Some cunts should be looking at lengthy spells in jail for this 

 

FFS the bastards wont even give a truthful answer on the death toll

[Oh Buoy]

The new Royal in Liverpool has been built with it apparently.

 

 

Most NHS trust new builds and refurbs are built with it..... 

 

 

The majority of newly built hospitals/trusts are more sophisticated. 

 

For example, lets say you have a hexagon shaped hospital, each point marks the end of a ward. 

 

If a fire starts in Ward 1, this will trigger the fire system and place Ward 2 and 6 on standby and alert 3 and 5 that evacuation may need to be considered if the fire spreads. Ward 1 immediately shuts all fire doors and 2/6 probably do the same if it's considered a large fire. 

 

If the fire spreads, lifts closest to Ward 1 will go to the bottom floor automatically, all other lifts will be operational until their closest Ward becomes a risk. 

 

Plus, you have staff running through drills every year to combat such a crisis. 

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zktUVydEijw

 

[PestiRed]

What's not to like about the Tories choice of judge for the enquiry,  70 year old establishment suit with previous on treating London tenants like shit.

No 1 priority will be to ensure no shite end up on the doorstep of the Tories,  Muddy the waters , make sure its classed as a problem ignored by governments of all colours and  point the finger at Labour councils that did fuck all too.  You could write his fucking report tomorrow and the Grenfell victims will have to wait decades for justice. . With Hillsborough finally coming to closure after 28 years this fucking scum government are pulling the same stunts again

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40438701

Hillsborough is not coming to a close. I can almost guarantee that justice will be ducked in the courts and the families will be told to accept it

[magicrat]

Hillsborough is not coming to a close. I can almost guarantee that justice will be ducked in the courts and the families will be told to accept it

 

I don't think having finally got Duckinfield and the others in the dock there will be any tampering with due process now,  

[Karl_b]

The focus on whether the cladding was zinc or aluminium seems like a complete red-herring to me. From my own experience the use of a non-fire retardant PIR insulation and lack of fire barriers is what's crucial in relation to the spread of fire across the external envelope. As far as I know zinc and aluminium meet the same standards but as aluminium is cheaper, and in this instance saved £250k+, people assume that must have something to do with it.

 

Concentrate on the insulation, poor quality fire detection, lack of fire barriers, means of escape and why sprinklers weren't installed as a starting point.

[magicrat]

Kensington council shutting down all debate on Grenfell. Nothing to hide there then

 

http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-tower-fire-fury-as-council-halts-meeting-in-absolute-fiasco-10931978

[Anubis]

Pagett-Brown steps down as leader of Kensington Council. Hardly surprising following the meeting on Thu night which he basically used to make a statement defending the council's response to Grenfell (without substance), and then shut the meeting down before any other councillors could ask questions.

 

EDIT: Sorry, just saw magicrat's post.

[Kloppite]

Are these saying now that they failed the tests based on pre existing safety standards or standards that have been brought out since the fire?

 

If they were pre existing safety standards then that is surely criminal.

[magicrat]

Are these saying now that they failed the tests based on pre existing safety standards or standards that have been brought out since the fire?

 

If they were pre existing safety standards then that is surely criminal.

Whoever made the point earlier in the thread about cladding being a bit of red herring was right, The key issue seems to be the lack of basic safety features in the building to stop it spreading. Fire breaks/ doors , sprinkler systems and alarms etc,  This enquiry will more than likely tell us effectively what we know already and fail to drill down on the failings of those in authority that ignored reports and warnings going back years, It will be a Theresa May led whitewash that brings no-one to justice and blames failings on governments from both parties over the years. Points will undoubtedly be made this disaster could quite easily have happened in a Labour borough and before you know it it will be everyone is to blame and we must learn from our mistakes, Illegal immigrants that died will have no voice ( some will have no name ) and most of the others will not have the resources to fight on for justice  being poor, mostly muslim migrants who are regarding as second class citizens already by the Tories.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Anecdotal claims that some of the residents from the destroyed flats are still having rent payments taken from their bank accounts.

[VladimirIlyich]

There is always a fall guy/girl and that Pagett-Brown is that person. It doesnt get near the people really responsible.

[Champ]

Did anyone hear the man interviewed on R5 this morning about his experience of escaping the fire and assisting his disabled neighbour?

I'd just arrived at work but sat in the car listening to him before going in.

Absolutely humbling

[deiseach]

That's not what the article says though is it? He's a hugely experienced lawyer.

They didn't come much more experienced than Lord Widgery, did they? The Tory fix is in.

[Rico1304]

They didn't come much more experienced than Lord Widgery, did they? The Tory fix is in.

Who would you prefer? Finding a judge who's not had a judgement overturned on appeal may take a while.

[deiseach]

Who would you prefer? Finding a judge who's not had a judgement overturned on appeal may take a while.

You're the one appealing to authority here. 'Experience' tells us that these inquiries are designed to protect the powerful and the narrow remit of this inquiry suggests this will be no different. Even the exception - the Taylor Report - was successfully sidelined for over two decades. But hey, you carry on thinking this one will expose the wrongdoers. You should hope it does, because the backlash if it doesn't will make you wish for Corbyn.

[Rico1304]

You're the one appealing to authority here. 'Experience' tells us that these inquiries are designed to protect the powerful and the narrow remit of this inquiry suggests this will be no different. Even the exception - the Taylor Report - was successfully sidelined for over two decades. But hey, you carry on thinking this one will expose the wrongdoers. You should hope it does, because the backlash if it doesn't will make you wish for Corbyn.

I'm not appealing to authority I'm acknowledging his credentials. It's not started yet and you've written it off as a whitewash and citing a report from the 80's.

 

If you think he's a Tory stooge who would you rather have, it's a simple question.

 

I'm hopeful the world has moved on from the 80's and there'll be transparency and focus keeping it 'honest'.

[skend04]

He's no stooge but hasn't he himself said the scope of the inquiry isn't going to provide the residents with what they want?

[magicrat]

I'm not appealing to authority I'm acknowledging his credentials. It's not started yet and you've written it off as a whitewash and citing a report from the 80's.

 

If you think he's a Tory stooge who would you rather have, it's a simple question.

 

I'm hopeful the world has moved on from the 80's and there'll be transparency and focus keeping it 'honest'.

 

The residents themselves are threatening to boycott the enquiry unless they get an input into the terms of reference,

Do you really believe that with Theresa May setting the boundaries we are likely to have a good outcome in terms of getting answers and holding those responsible to account. ?  I don't and better to have the fight about it now rather than years down the road as happened with Hillsborough