Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Section_31]

One thing that's annoyed me a bit since the election is there's been little talk of how a lot of UKIP voters from working class areas have gone 'back' to Labour, much of the talk is about the youth vote. While I'm happy with that, I'm wary of the Owen Jones brigade turning this into purely a 'Labour now the voice of liberal Britain' type shit, when in actual fact it's the working class that need the party to be its bastion once again. 

[Strontium]

My point is Labour and the Tories both have an answer to the problems you pose about taxes.

 

Labour believe that public services are essential to the proper functioning of a society. It's important to create a free healthcare system that we all pay into because everyone will need it at some stage of their life. It's important to pay for free schooling because every child needs to be educated to become a productive member of society etc. Everything has to be paid for, so they tax people a bit more and make up the majority of the money from the richest people and the corporations because they have the most money to give. 

 

The Tories answer is no public services, or as little as possible to function. They believe in privatising everything so they don't have to pay for it. You pay for your healthcare, you pay for your education and you pay for everything else in life. In return they'll lower your taxes so you'll have more personal spending. They make up the money by selling off the public services so you can pay less tax.

 

Both ideologies answer the question of funding the economy. The Lib Dems don't. The Lib Dems have never been in power so they don't understand the reality of balancing the books. They want to keep taxes low like the Tories but also have the public services running the same as Labour. That's impossible. So what ends up happening is they have to borrow money to make their manifesto a reality. Then they have the temerity to attack Labour and accuse them of having a "magic money tree" when they borrow at a near 50% ratio.

 

The IFS said both the Tory and Labour manifestos were not being honest about their tax and spending commitments, and that it didn't think Labour would manage to raise what it claimed it would.

 

If you're going to criticise the Lib Dems for being honest about their spending plans, I'll take that tbh.

 

Pretty sure none of the manifestos mentioned a magic money tree too.

[Strontium]

Labour has gained 150,000 new members in the three days since the election.

 

The Conservative Party has just under 150,000 members in total.

 

Fake news.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40251890

 

Reports that 150,000 people have joined the Labour Party since the general election are not recognised by Jeremy Corbyn's office.

 

A collection of popular tweets have suggested that Labour's membership has bulged by 150,000 since the election.

However, Mr Corbyn's office sent out an email on 11 June to all members and supporters, referencing a different membership figure. The email said that, 'over 15,000 people… have joined Labour since polling day'.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

One thing that's annoyed me a bit since the election is there's been little talk of how a lot of UKIP voters from working class areas have gone 'back' to Labour, much of the talk is about the youth vote. While I'm happy with that, I'm wary of the Owen Jones brigade turning this into purely a 'Labour now the voice of liberal Britain' type shit, when in actual fact it's the working class that need the party to be its bastion once again. 

I'm not as convinced as a lot of pundits were that the bulk of UKIP's support (when they had support) came from disenfranchised Labour voters.  After all, UKIP has always been nothing more than a splinter group from the racist wing of the Tory party.  Having said that, I agree that the narrative that the pro-Corbyn surge is almost exclusively down to liberal-minded youths getting off their arses does seem to be taking hold with precious little evidence or scrutiny.   The truth is probably more complicated than that.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/general-election-2017-young-people_uk_593e7ba1e4b0c5a35ca115e4

[Captain Turdseye]

All together now...

 

 

45]

stupid spectator ‏ @JosieLong

 

Following

 

 

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You can sing "Jeremy Bernard Corbyn, coming to fuck you up!" to the tune of So What by Pink.

 

 

 

 

Try it

 

Yes it's amusing but I didn't even play the video and I've still got that shit song on a loop in my head.

[Red Phoenix]

I'm wary of the Owen Jones brigade turning this into purely a 'Labour now the voice of liberal Britain' type shit, when in actual fact it's the working class that need the party to be its bastion once again. 

 

What do you mean by that? That you think he's bringing identity politics into things and that's causing problems or something? I think he's been doing well to help Labour lately that's all. I haven't thought of it from that perspective though if that's what you mean. With him being a Guardian journo I'm often wary though, that's there's some other angle going on.

 

Or have you mixed up Owen Jones with Owen Smith and my post makes no sense at all?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I'm not looking for a perfect world. That's just daft. I'm looking after my family. I'm not abandoning everyone else, but mine are first. That means I pay the lowest amount of tax I can.

I've just been doing some sums to compare current Income Tax rates with Labour's manifesto plans.  Unless I'm getting my sums horribly wrong (which, I admit, is a possibility) someone on £100,000 a year would have been paying £1,000 a year more under a Labour Government.

 

The question is, what would they do with that £1,000 that would look after their family more effectively than paying that money towards public services?  I genuinely believe that paying your taxes is the best way to look after your family.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Fuck me how can you blame the public when his own party didn't seem to want him either?

 

He's an MP who'd spent his career being antiestablishment and then in his late 60's decides he wants to lead the establishment.

*ahem*

 

http://www.labour.org.uk/blog/entry/results-of-the-labour-leadership-and-deputy-leadership-election

 

http://www.labour.org.uk/pages/labour-leadership-results-2016

[AngryOfTuebrook]

He's an MP who'd spent his career being antiestablishment and then in his late 60's decides he wants to lead the establishment.

He's an MP who'd spent his whole career campaigning for a fairer society and then in his late 60s decides he wants to lead a fairer society.

 

Honestly, what a bastard!

[AngryOfTuebrook]

There is a simple reason for the discrepancy here. People cheating the welfare state are taking other people's money, whereas someone trying to diminish their tax burden is trying to keep more of their own money.

 

In pithier terms, welfare cheats are stealing money, and tax avoiders are trying to stop their money being stolen.

Bullshit.

 

Welfare cheats are trying to get what they need for a decent standard of living; tax dodgers are hoarding their cash and refusing to make a contribution to the society that made it for them.

 

Still, tomaytoes/tomahtoes...

 

Also, of course, welfare cheats account for a tiny fraction of what the tax dodgers cheat the public out of.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I am explaining to you why common attitudes towards tax avoidance and benefit theft are at variance to each other.

 

Quite how this is "Tory", I do not know.

I'm obviously one of those poor swine who is too dense to understand the pearls you throw before us, because I thought you'd compared tax to theft - y'know, just like the Toriest of Tory cunts would.

[cloggypop]

 

 

That along with getting ill and realising I'm gonna be making more use of the NHS than a lot of others will need to.

You selfish Tory cunt

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Yes it's amusing but I didn't even play the video and I've still got that shit song on a loop in my head.

Sorry about that.

 

I hope this helps.

Warning! The following content is NOT WORK SAFE. Click the Show button to reveal.

[Strontium]

I'm obviously one of those poor swine who is too dense to understand the pearls you throw before us, because I thought you'd compared tax to theft - y'know, just like the Toriest of Tory cunts would.

 

Yes, you clearly are very dense, because you don't understand that explaining someone else's opinion is not the same thing as agreeing with it.

 

Get in the queue though, there's plenty of you on here who can't read simple English.

 

Fucking shitballs.

[cloggypop]

I wish I was clever enough to be a Lib Dem. Looks boss.

[Strontium]

I wish I was clever enough to be a Lib Dem. Looks boss.

 

All you have to do is not despise individual freedom, you know, that sort of thing.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Yes, you clearly are very dense, because you don't understand that explaining someone else's opinion is not the same thing as agreeing with it.

 

Get in the queue though, there's plenty of you on here who can't read simple English.

 

Fucking shitballs.

Right.

 

All those posts where you appear to go whining on about the unnecessary use of personal abuse, you were just paraphrasing other people's opinions?  OK.

 

Still, to get back to the original charge of your post being "the Toriest thing on here" - would you at least agree that the opinions you were (*ahem*) "explaining" are pretty damn Tory opinions?

[Gnasher]

There is a simple reason for the discrepancy here. People cheating the welfare state are taking other people's money, whereas someone trying to diminish their tax burden is trying to keep more of their own money.

 

In pithier terms, welfare cheats are stealing money, and tax avoiders are trying to stop their money being stolen.

Are you sending in these posts from Rampton?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

All you have to do is not despise individual freedom, you know, that sort of thing.

You really do see the world that way, don't you?

 

Incredible.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Are you sending in these posts from Rampton?

Careful now, Gnash, or he'll pull the John Terry "fackin' black cant" defence on you, too.

[Strontium]

Right.

 

All those posts where you appear to go whining on about the unnecessary use of personal abuse, you were just paraphrasing other people's opinions?  OK.

 

Still, to get back to the original charge of your post being "the Toriest thing on here" - would you at least agree that the opinions you were (*ahem*) "explaining" are pretty damn Tory opinions?

 

Since we were specifically talking about Tory opinions, it seems pretty bloody obvious that they are Tory opinions. QED.

[Strontium]

You really do see the world that way, don't you?

 

Incredible.

 

What part of liberal don't you understand?

[lifetime fan]

One thing that's annoyed me a bit since the election is there's been little talk of how a lot of UKIP voters from working class areas have gone 'back' to Labour, much of the talk is about the youth vote. While I'm happy with that, I'm wary of the Owen Jones brigade turning this into purely a 'Labour now the voice of liberal Britain' type shit, when in actual fact it's the working class that need the party to be its bastion once again.

The guardian election podcast the morning after, Jones was saying Corbyn was personally responsible for winning over 50% of the former UKIP voters.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

What part of liberal don't you understand?

The bit about propping up a horrible Tory Government for 5 years.

 

Off to bed now.

 

x

[Strontium]

The bit about propping up a horrible Tory Government for 5 years.

 

2010-15 is looking like a paragon of strong and stable government compared to this shitshow.