Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

 

Might not be 'relevant' to you 

I very obviously meant "not relevant to this thread"  - but you knew that.

[Gnasher]

Free movement is a double edged sword often used by unscrupulous bosses to suppress wages. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/aldi-gives-second-pay-rise-in-year-amid-high-demand-for-uk-workers

 

Ask the the recently sacked P&O workers what they think of Ursulas free movement,

 

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/people/po-ferries-eastern-european-crew-are-on-board-pride-of-hull-but-dont-have-clearance-to-sail-3616493

[bossy]

Just now, Gnasher said:

Free movement is a double edged sword often used by unscrupulous bosses to suppress wages. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/aldi-gives-second-pay-rise-in-year-amid-high-demand-for-uk-workers

 

Ask the sacked P&O workers what they think of free movement,

 

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/people/po-ferries-eastern-european-crew-are-on-board-pride-of-hull-but-dont-have-clearance-to-sail-3616493

So, stop the freedom of people to move about.  Deep deep fucking sigh. You have Brexit, let’s see how the far right and the far left make these sunny uplands. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

Free movement is a double edged sword often used by unscrupulous bosses to suppress wages. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/aldi-gives-second-pay-rise-in-year-amid-high-demand-for-uk-workers

 

Ask the the recently sacked P&O workers what they think of Ursulas free movement,

 

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/people/po-ferries-eastern-european-crew-are-on-board-pride-of-hull-but-dont-have-clearance-to-sail-3616493

Ask non-EU workers employed by a non-EU company operating out of non-EU ports what they think of Ursula Von Der Leyen?

 

Mate, they've got more pressing stuff to worry about.

[skend04]

5 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Free movement is a double edged sword often used by unscrupulous bosses to suppress wages. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/aldi-gives-second-pay-rise-in-year-amid-high-demand-for-uk-workers

 

Ask the the recently sacked P&O workers what they think of Ursulas free movement,

 

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/people/po-ferries-eastern-european-crew-are-on-board-pride-of-hull-but-dont-have-clearance-to-sail-3616493

P&O sackings are nothing to do with the EU. Your fellow Tory Grayling passed the law that the Dubai based business employed to sack the workers. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 minutes ago, bossy said:

So, stop the freedom of people to move about.  Deep deep fucking sigh. You have Brexit, let’s see how the far right and the far left make these sunny uplands. 

It's pretty much akin to victim-blaming; workers are being exploited, so let's reduce their rights even further.

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, bossy said:

So, stop the freedom of people to move about.  Deep deep fucking sigh. You have Brexit, let’s see how the far right and the far left make these sunny uplands. 

Brexit has many flaws, lack of NHS staff imo being the main one (although our government should have been aware) but it also undoubtedly provided pay and security in work benefits for many low paid workers in hospitality/agricultural/construction etc. 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/aldi-gives-second-pay-rise-in-year-amid-high-demand-for-uk-workers

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Just now, Gnasher said:

 it also undoubtedly provided pay and security in work benefits for many low paid workers in hospitality/agricultural/construction etc. 

 

No. It. Fucking. Didn't.

 

The whole point of Brexit was to strip workers' of those rights. That's what is happening in the real world. Brexit is panning out exactly as the leading Brexiteers planned.

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's pretty much akin to victim-blaming; workers are being exploited, so let's reduce their rights even further.

It's not victim blaming it's the suppression of wages amongst mainly low paid workers in certain industries, agriculture being a prime example. A major supermarket has increased wages this very week. I seem to remember a certain poster saying these rises won't last.

 

 

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

No. It. Fucking. Didn't.

 

The whole point of Brexit was to strip workers' of those rights. That's what is happening in the real world. Brexit is panning out exactly as the leading Brexiteers planned.

Yes. It. Did.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/aldi-gives-second-pay-rise-in-year-amid-high-demand-for-uk-workers

[bossy]

6 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Brexit has many flaws, lack of NHS staff imo being the main one (although our government should have been aware) but it also undoubtedly provided pay and security in work benefits for many low paid workers in hospitality/agricultural/construction etc. 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/aldi-gives-second-pay-rise-in-year-amid-high-demand-for-uk-workers

 

Workers paradise incoming. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Just now, Gnasher said:

It's not victim blaming it's the suppression of wages amongst mainly low paid workers in certain industries, agriculture being a prime example. A major supermarket has increased wages this very week. I seem to remember a certain poster saying these rises won't last.

 

 

Yeah. It was me. I'm still saying it. Because they won't.

[Creator Supreme]

17 hours ago, Tj hooker said:

Should we start crowd funding 

The first Brexit benefit, at last!

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

No. It. Fucking. Didn't.

 

The whole point of Brexit was to strip workers' of those rights. That's what is happening in the real world. Brexit is panning out exactly as the leading Brexiteers planned.

Do the people who work in supermarkets count as the 'real world'?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/aldi-gives-second-pay-rise-in-year-amid-high-demand-for-uk-workers

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

Yes. It. Did.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/aldi-gives-second-pay-rise-in-year-amid-high-demand-for-uk-workers

That doesn't say anything about "security in work benefits". It's a report about a temporary blip in wages.

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, bossy said:

Workers paradise incoming. 

Well I've posted a link showing a major supermarket giving staff wage rises this very week in part because of Brexit. 

[Gnasher]

8 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Yeah. It was me. I'm still saying it. Because they won't.

 But they are, an example in the guardian today, or don't the low paid count? 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-sees-fastest-wage-rises-sectors-most-reliant-eu-workers-indeed-2022-02-25/

[Arniepie]

10 minutes ago, Creator Supreme said:

The first Brexit benefit, at last!

It's genuinely like something out of the victorian era

 

[No2]

@Gnasher what's your PB for posting the same link? 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 But they are, an example in the guardian today, or don't the low paid count? 

A Brief Guided Tour of Reality

 

The UK left the EU at the end of January 2020.

Almost immediately, the pandemic knackered economies around the world.

Last year, as countries started to emerge from the pandemic, shortages of labour (exacerbated by Brexit) drove wages up in some sectors. That effect is ongoing, but undoubtedly temporary, because it's unsustainable.

The only way to make a sustainable shift in pay & conditions is to effect a power shift from bosses to workers, by giving workers more rights.

The whole point of Brexit (according to the people who promoted it and who are now in charge) was to effect a power shift in the opposite direction, by giving workers fewer rights.

[bossy]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Well I've posted a link showing a major supermarket giving staff wage rises this very week in part because of Brexit. 

Aldi still refuses to recognise USDAW so it’s all depends on the German firms goodwill. It’s hardly the way to provide constructive, solid, long lasting working conditions and wages for all. I have mates who regard themselves as communists and have the same opinion as you. I know also, that they don’t believe the bollix from, in this case Aldi, but it suits them to use this argument for now. See also Spiked. 

[Gnasher]

3 hours ago, bossy said:

Aldi still refuses to recognise USDAW so it’s all depends on the German firms goodwill. It’s hardly the way to provide constructive, solid, long lasting working conditions and wages for all. I have mates who regard themselves as communists and have the same opinion as you. I know also, that they don’t believe the bollix from, in this case Aldi, but it suits them to use this argument for now. See also Spiked. 

I was talking more in general terms. A firm struggling for labour should ensure job security rises, otherwise they'd soon be looking for even more labour. Thatcher used mass unemployment to suppress wages and increase job insecurity, which is what happened. 

 

I'm certainly not suggesting this is some kind of boom time for British workers across the card but some in certain low paid professions such as agriculture/hospitality/construction have definitely benefited from our withdrawal. 

[Kepler-186]

 

[bossy]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

I was talking more in general terms. A firm struggling for labour should ensure job security rises, otherwise they'd soon be looking for even more labour. Thatcher used mass unemployment to suppress wages and increase job insecurity, which is what happened. 

 

I'm certainly not suggesting this is some kind of boom time for British workers across the card but some in certain low paid professions such as agriculture/hospitality/construction have definitely benefited from our withdrawal. 

Aldi has always been the best paying of the supermarkets anyway. There is no indication that Brexit has caused a seismic shift in the way British workers are treated. Business has not recalibrated due to Brexit, nor has the government. If people are paid more, business will expect more from them.  

[Gnasher]

6 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

A Brief Guided Tour of Reality

 

The UK left the EU at the end of January 2020.

Almost immediately, the pandemic knackered economies around the world.

Last year, as countries started to emerge from the pandemic, shortages of labour (exacerbated by Brexit) drove wages up in some sectors. That effect is ongoing, but undoubtedly temporary, because it's unsustainable.

 

The reality is in these people's wage packets 

 

Everything is temporary and unsustainable to a point, bankers bonuses? Did the rich turn their nose up at them? Anyway If/when rises come to an end the reason will probably be through poor economic governance not through the act of Brexit.  Anyway the length is not the whole issue, the worker/employer correlation change was desperately needed. Yours is a rather bizarre argument.

 

Quote

The only way to make a sustainable shift in pay & conditions is to effect a power shift from bosses to workers, by giving workers more rights.

More rights are obviously welcome but sky high unemployment has always been the main enemy of job security. We both live in areas blighted by mass unemployment. Thatcher used it in the 80s with an unemployment rate of 3mil plus. Employers knew they have a large pool of workers to call on and use it accordingly to slash pay and conditions.

Quote

The whole point of Brexit (according to the people who promoted it and who are now in charge) was to effect a power shift in the opposite direction, by giving workers fewer rights.

 

An awful lot of political commentators on both left and right predicted an upturn for the lowest 20% of workers in mainly manual lower paid occupations. Cummings being one of them. It really wasn't a suprise.