Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[cloggypop]

8 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I dont know why you feel the need to keep insulting people ? You wouldn't talk like that if we were across a table in a  pub so why do you do it on here ? We are trying to discuss things like grown ups but you feel to need to make it like kids in a fucking playground in every thread. Its really tedious. 

I'd definitely call you a bad Tory biff to your face. Doubt it would get that far as I'd have already swerved the loud twat in a turned up collar polo talking about his Porsche and how rugby is an inherently superior sport to f**tball. 

 

 

[cloggypop]

5 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Ha ha. Well I’m at most away games south of birmingham every season so if you get a ticket feel free to come over and say hello/call me a Tory biff as you see fit. I’m the fat bald bloke ranting about agricultural subsidies (bad), legalised drugs (bad) and kidneys on a fry up (good).  

Not sure you're selling it to me really. 

 

Drugs > offal

[Mudface]

32 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

So let me get this clear, we pay £3 billion per year in farming subsidies indirectlty or directly to wealthy billionaire landowners in case there is a war with Europe ? Is that the justification ? 

 

If we stopped paying the £3 billion, UK farmers wouldn't all go out of business. The market would self correct and either food prices would go up (unlikely with post Brexit trade deals allowing global tariff free imports) or much more likely agricultural rents would reduce to keep the farm viable. The 40% inheritance tax break for the land owner is the valuable leverage which keeps them in farming and as long as that is maintained (incorrectly in my view), scrapping subsidies to their tenant farmers wont make any differance to the amount of land that is dedicated to agriculture. They are not going to suddenly take their money out of farming and expose it to 40% inheritance tax even if rents went to £0 or even negative. 

Sounds to me like you're suggesting we take back the land from these billionaire parasites. Good call.

[mattyq]

2 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

So let me get this clear, we pay £3 billion per year in farming subsidies indirectlty or directly to wealthy billionaire landowners in case there is a war with Europe ? Is that the justification ? 

 

If we stopped paying the £3 billion, UK farmers wouldn't all go out of business. The market would self correct and either food prices would go up (unlikely with post Brexit trade deals allowing global tariff free imports) or much more likely agricultural rents would reduce to keep the farm viable. The 40% inheritance tax break for the land owner is the valuable leverage which keeps them in farming and as long as that is maintained (incorrectly in my view), scrapping subsidies to their tenant farmers wont make any differance to the amount of land that is dedicated to agriculture. They are not going to suddenly take their money out of farming and expose it to 40% inheritance tax even if rents went to £0 or even negative. 

Fucking Hell

Imagine if we have something like a pandemic. Crazy, I know, and imports dry up. I'm sure you're familiar with disaster planning

Ahh, the famous market correction. Not at all a massive upheaval to our food supply during a pandemic and Brexit. I mean, what could possibly go wrong? Empty shelves in supermarkets... it'd be fine. Blitz spirit, veg plots, parks ploughed up

Food prices have already gone up post Brexit. Inflation is 2.1%. 

Our ports are fucked; there's a massive shortage of drivers and logistical issues worldwide are currently big

Importing all our food is dangerous and short sighted and likely to end badly

 

[Bruce Spanner]

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 hours ago, TK421 said:

Couldn't find anything.

There's a welcome (although probably temporary) increase in construction industry wages, as a result of a shortage of labour. Gnasher attributes this to Brexit  (presumably because he hasn't noticed anything else which might be hindering the free movement of workers right now).

 

That's it. That's the first discernable positive consequence of Brexit that he can come up with. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

 People like to eat cheap processed shit in this country. 

True that. All those people living in poverty despite working shitty jobs are just so happy that they don't have to put up with fresh meat, fish, fruit and veg.

[Pureblood]

I've heard they love food banks, too.  When they can get their fat asses away from their 50" plasma screens.

[Pureblood]

I'm still waiting for the part where Brexit ruins the Tories and they fall apart in disarray.  I'm sure if Brexit doesn't do it then a deadly pandemic will. 

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, TK421 said:

I'm still waiting for the part where Brexit ruins the Tories and they fall apart in disarray.  I'm sure if Brexit doesn't do it then a deadly pandemic will. 

They will use the pandemic as an excuse and get through the next election, by the time the net one comes around we will all be living on The Road 

[Pureblood]

13 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

They will use the pandemic as an excuse and get through the next election, by the time the net one comes around we will all be living on The Road 

We'll have British fish, though.

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, TK421 said:

We'll have British fish, though.

I was trying to skate round the issue 

[Lee909]

3 hours ago, Mudface said:

Sounds to me like you're suggesting we take back the land from these billionaire parasites. Good call.

 

 

[Jose Jones]

10 hours ago, Kepler-186 said:

 

What we’ll end up with is the cheap, poorly raised meat from US and Oz for poor people who have to buy on price, and the Saturday Kitchen mob waxing lyrical about natural, grass fed beef. 
 

 

 

I think the Queen, gawd bless her, is the largest landowner down here so that would be a great win for Britain.

[Gnasher]

10 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

There's a welcome (although probably temporary) increase in construction industry wages, as a result of a shortage of labour. Gnasher attributes this to Brexit  (presumably because he hasn't noticed anything else which might be hindering the free movement of workers right now).

 

That's it. That's the first discernable positive consequence of Brexit that he can come up with. 

Being a tad disingenuous there Angry? Or maybe you've been so concerned over the plight of southern English landowners you havnt given yourself time to read the links. 

 

As I've said 3 million construction workers living in the standard 3 person home means an indirect rise for approx 9 million people, most of those beneficiaries will be working/middle class. 

 

16% of construction firms are already taking on more apprenticeships, which can be a lifeline to youth growing up on housing estates or in dead end jobs.

 

 

http://www.infrastructure-intelligence.com/article/feb-2021/citb-finds-jobs-boost-british-workers-post-brexit-construction

 

You've also chosen to ignore the added  vacancies in the service sector, again good news for thousands upon thousands of waitresses/ youngsters working in cafes/bars throughout the country.

[Gnasher]

Forgot link under last paragraph above regarding service industry workers.. heres a lib dem remain advisor correctly pointing out that brexit has been a boost for low paid workers.

 

Sixth para down..

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/ed-miliband-s-brexit-embrace-isn-t-fooling-anyone

 

The main point of free movement was to flood the Labour Market to suppress pay and so increase employers profits

 

..

https://www.hrreview.co.uk/hr-news/recruitment/salaries-increase-as-brexit-fears-reduce-in-2020/122562

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

you've been so concerned over the plight of southern English landowners 

Do you even read the stuff you write?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Being a tad disingenuous there Angry? Or maybe you've been so concerned over the plight of southern English landowners you havnt given yourself time to read the links. 

 

As I've said 3 million construction workers living in the standard 3 person home means an indirect rise for approx 9 million people, most of those beneficiaries will be working/middle class. 

 

16% of construction firms are already taking on more apprenticeships, which can be a lifeline to youth growing up on housing estates or in dead end jobs.

 

 

http://www.infrastructure-intelligence.com/article/feb-2021/citb-finds-jobs-boost-british-workers-post-brexit-construction

 

You've also chosen to ignore the added  vacancies in the service sector, again good news for thousands upon thousands of waitresses/ youngsters working in cafes/bars throughout the country.

Not disingenuous at all.

 

There is no evidence - at least, not yet -  that pay increases in construction are permanent or that staff shortages in construction and hospitality are wholly - or even mainly - attributable to Brexit. It would be disingenuous to pretend that there is evidence of that.

 

Finding a Lib Dem who shares your opinion does not count as evidence. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Worth mentioning, also, that I don't really give a fuck about the nationality of workers. I want all workers to have more rights. These great Brexit benefits that you're trumpeting are, at best, one group of workers gaining from another group being stripped of their rights. It's divide and rule and you're lapping it up.

[Chairman Meow]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Worth mentioning, also, that I don't really give a fuck about the nationality of workers. I want all workers to have more rights. These great Brexit benefits that you're trumpeting are, at best, one group of workers gaining from another group being stripped of their rights. It's divide and rule and you're lapping it up.

[Gnasher]

9 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Not disingenuous at all.

 

There is no evidence - at least, not yet -  that pay increases in construction are permanent or that staff shortages in construction and hospitality are wholly - or even mainly - attributable to Brexit. It would be disingenuous to pretend that there is evidence of that.

 

Finding a Lib Dem who shares your opinion does not count as evidence. 

The 

 

10 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Not disingenuous at all.

 

There is no evidence - at least, not yet -  that pay increases in construction are permanent or that staff shortages in construction and hospitality are wholly - or even mainly - attributable to Brexit. It would be disingenuous to pretend that there is evidence of that.

 

Finding a Lib Dem who shares your opinion does not count as evidence. 

Oh but you were positive about their being no benefits to Brexit earlier despite the evidence laid out by the construction industry, 3 million worker which includes architects, hod carriers, quantity surveyors, carpenters and a whole host of differing trades and professions (not simply a few builders who don't understand economics as you mockingly commented on a few days ago) as for the lib dem advisor, it's hardly an opinion Angry  the service market has changed to the benefit of the employee, signs asking for Labour grace the countrys high streets. Your failure to grasp the simple context of employee/employer supply and demand illustrates why some in the Labour party are so out of touch with its traditional vote. 

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

35 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

The 

 

Oh but you were positive about their being no benefits to Brexit earlier despite the evidence laid out by the construction industry, 3 million worker which includes architects, hod carriers, quantity surveyors, carpenters and a whole host of differing trades and professions (not simply a few builders who don't understand economics as you mockingly commented on a few days ago) as for the lib dem advisor, it's hardly an opinion Angry  the service market has changed to the benefit of the employee, signs asking for Labour grace the countrys high streets. Your failure to grasp the simple context of employee/employer supply and demand illustrates why some in the Labour party are so out of touch with its traditional vote. 

 

 

It's not a case of me being "positive despite evidence".  It's a case of the "evidence" being how I've described it. It doesn't prove what you claim it proves.

 

I didn't "mock" any builders for their lack of knowledge of economics.  You said any builder would know more about economics than I would; I said I'd be surprised (because I've studied economics a fair bit and it's a bit of an interest of mine).  I'm not saying I'm due a Nobel Prize or a professorship any time soon, but I know more about economics than the average person  (builders included).

 

You've posted that paywalled link a few times. I haven’t actually read what the Lib Dem advisor says, only the fact that you've trailed it with "a Lib Dem advisor says..."  The thing about facts, unlike opinions, is it doesn't matter who says them. If it is just facts - maybe that elusive evidence of the current upturn in construction pay being caused by Brexit (and not by any other restrictions to movement) - then why not copy and paste them instead of focusing on who said it.

 

As for "the simple context of supply and demand"... well, there's a phrase I keep coming back to which should probably be a subtitle to this whole thread: "I think you'll find it's not as simple as that".

[skend04]

Can't believe we've got posters, during a pandemic and Brexit where we're struggling at ports and material delays are increasing by months, suggesting that it's all fine to increase our dependency for food on countries thousands of miles away, whilst harming to an even greater extent our ability to be self reliant in future situations like we face now.

 

Koolade drinking mofo's 

[Gnasher]

25 minutes ago, skend04 said:

Can't believe we've got posters, during a pandemic and Brexit where we're struggling at ports and material delays are increasing by months, suggesting that it's all fine to increase our dependency for food on countries thousands of miles away, whilst harming to an even greater extent our ability to be self reliant in future situations like we face now.

 

Koolade drinking mofo's 

Except nobody is saying that.

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's not a case of me being "positive despite evidence".  It's a case of the "evidence" being how I've described it. It doesn't prove what you claim it proves.

 

I didn't "mock" any builders for their lack of knowledge of economics.  You said any builder would know more about economics than I would; I said I'd be surprised (because I've studied economics a fair bit and it's a bit of an interest of mine).  I'm not saying I'm due a Nobel Prize or a professorship any time soon, but I know more about economics than the average person  (builders included).

Sorry but judging by your lack of understanding of basic economics on this thread I'd wager the average builder would jump over your head on the subject, still at least it gave you an opportunity to get the age old thick builder dig in. 

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

 

You've posted that paywalled link a few times. I haven’t actually read what the Lib Dem advisor says, only the fact that you've trailed it with "a Lib Dem advisor says..."  The thing about facts, unlike opinions, is it doesn't matter who says them. If it is just facts - maybe that elusive evidence of the current upturn in construction pay being caused by Brexit (and not by any other restrictions to movement) - then why not copy and paste them instead of focusing on who said it.

 

As for "the simple context of supply and demand"... well, there's a phrase I keep coming back to which should probably be a subtitle to this whole thread: "I think you'll find it's not as simple as that".

 

"Not as simple as that?" oh please ffs please Angry, you know as well as any one Thatcher made it her economic policy to put millions on the dole to suppress wages, I bet even the builders of that time knew that.